|
Mating suggestions for Manhattan Rain mare please. |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
Embark 
Foal 
Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 29 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Mating suggestions for Manhattan Rain mare please.Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 11:49pm |
|
A friend of mine bought a broodmare for next to nothing in Victoria because she was proving impossible to load on a float and she would have disappeared otherwise. The lady that's bought her is really good at sorting these types of fillies/mares out.
Her name is ISLES OF WONDER and she is by MANHATTAN RAIN out the PERUGINO mare GINA LOLLAWITCHA. The mare is in Victoria and the lady that has her is looking for a Victorian stallion in the lower price bracket. I suggested SWEAR and even ANACHEEVA well as WAYED ZAIN but this mare already has been mated to THE WOW SIGNAL and to TORANADO twice and the new owner wishes to avoid HIGH CHAPARRAL. Any suggestions from the knowledgable people around here would be most welcome.
|
|
 |
|
|
Kimberley Mine
Champion 
Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1517 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 7:54am |
|
I'm not sure what your client means by "lower price bracket." If either Cable Bay or National Defense are in that bracket, they both look good to me.
Voodoo Rhythm's dam descends from Persian Maid, who is an inviting target for linebreeding through her daughters Book of Verse (Obeah) and Mixed Marriage (Tamerette, Atan). Persian Maid herself descends from Aloe's daughter Aroma, whose half-sister Feola is the 2nd dam of Round Table. Cable Bay has Persian Maid via Kris (Atan --> Mixed Marriage) and Known Fact (Tamerette --> Mixed Marriage), plus a line to Round Table and a line to Angeola, another Feola daughter, via Aureole. He also brings in another line to Sir Ivor and to Lalun (via Never Bend) through Green Desert. National Defense brings in Mixed Marriage, Round Table, Sir Ivor, and Lalun via Invincible Spirit. He has an additional line to Round Table through his dam.
|
|
|
|
|
furious
Champion
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25170 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 10:24am |
|
I'm out today but will look later
|
|
|
|
|
Progold
Champion
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 1:22pm |
|
An interesting family given that the dam of the mare is the stakes winning Gina Lollawitcha. She was a sister to Lucky Diva, and a half sister to two other stakes winners in Spirit of Westbury and Duke Of Westbury both by Sir Tristram. Perhaps most significantly, it is the female family of the good racehorse and stallion, Century. The mare's pedigree is dominated by four lines of Northern Dancer including the two 3/4 siblings in Perugino and Fairy King. The obvious first thought is to try and breed back to stallions like Century and Sir Tristram which have been the feature in the family in recent times. Her best performed sibling for interest is Follow The Wind, a multiple winner in Hong Kong over 1600m and by Fastnet Rock who of course carries Marauding, a son of Sir Tristram as his second damsire.
Some thoughts on possible suitors will follow a bit later.
|
|
|
|
|
Second Chance
Champion
Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 2:19pm |
|
Agree with Progold's basic thrust.
Swear and Ready For Victoryare two that immediately come to mind in Vic at a modest price. Will also look further.
|
|
|
|
|
Second Chance
Champion
Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 3:40pm |
|
Whoops, Swear gives you siblings Redoute's and Manhattan rain 2 x 2. Can't come at that.
That's what happens when you rely on memory. ps and my Tesio has just blown a fuse and the stallion finder program suddenly won't work. This error message comes up: Operator "z" is not defined for type "DBNull" and type "Boolean" CompareObjectEqual Operators Any ideas?
|
|
|
|
|
Second Chance
Champion
Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 6:34pm |
|
Well if you can afford a negotiated $16.5k, Impending appears to be a standout. Sir Tristram sire line, Encosta De Lago sex balanced 3 x 3, Canny Lad (Star Kingdom goes so well with Sir T) 4 x 4, whilst there's no Century in him the match provides his sire Better Boy top and bottom, and last but not least we have three instances of Blue Hen mare Special, one top two bottom..
Just looking at the Century aspect, King of Prussia appears to come up very well indeed. You have siblings Century and Susan's Luck 4 x 5, the latter dam of Better Be Lucky which is actually a 3/4 to Century. Add in the Danzig cross 3 x 4, a sire who has consistently matched with Century. No Sir T, but we do have his sire Sir Ivor 5 x 6. At $2.2k and limited opportunity this sire punches above his weight. Have another one or two but prefer to leave you with these two atm.
|
|
|
|
|
furious
Champion
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25170 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 6:44pm |
|
Well so far as class from this female line the stand out is Century. And another Better Boy from that 20 family but a different branch is Better Gleam who proved a lovely racemare and when put to Showdown produced Kapalaran (a mix of Showdown/Better Boy/Wilkes and a 1000 Guineas winner who mixed it with the males of her generation).
At stud Century produced Rubiton (crossed to Seventh Hussar/Todman) Double Century (Adamastor/Star Kingdom) Euclase (Seventh Hussar/Todman) brother to Rubiton Century Miss (Matrice/Star Spangled Banner) - try finding those lines today! Centro (Vain/To Market) Centaurea (Showdown/Smokey Eyes) Valley of Georgia (Gala Performance a son of Stardust/Meadow Mist) Now closer to the present day we find lesser stakes winners by Noble Bijou, Voodoo Rhythm, King Cugat, Catbird, Sir Tristram and Perugino. Perugino and Voodoo Rhythm are already there in the pedigree. The Danehill blood of Catbird is easily found and the Marscay/Biscay blood likewise although you usually find it through Bletchingly who is also already in the pedigree. Now it depends if the price of stallion can extend up to the higher $8K mark but there are plenty of stallions down in victoria with blood that has already mixed with or is from the same family as this girl with the addition of sires with Century in their pedigree. Quite a few more if you go back to his sire if you can't find Century. But Century was one of those pedigrees which come up sometimes. He had Blandford 5m, 5f x 5m, Mumtaz Mahal 5m x 5f, Pharos 5f x 5m and Solario 4f x 5m. Now if you have ever tried to balance the m x f cross in a pedigree you will find there is always one or two that you just have to go f x f or m x m with. It just is about impossible to get the perfect mix. This boy had it and went on to excel in the breeding barn also. His dam had a pretty special pedigree also being inbred to a superior female in Chelandry 5f x 5f, Spearmint 4f x 5m. Now when you look at Isles of Wonder's pedigree you find an inbreeding to Fairy Bridge 4m x 3m and Northern Dancer 4m, 5m x 4m, 4m. Fairy Bridge with her four sire sons Sadler's Wells, Fairy King, Tate Gallery and Perugino only had the one filly - Fairy Dancer. Her son Mellifont in NZ at stud but with only moderate success. While her line of fillies ended in Australia and New Zealand with no notable horses coming from the remaining line. So Fairy Bridge ended up with a mare called Aprimadonna who produced six fillies who didn't go to stud or had no named foals. |
|
|
|
|
furious
Champion
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25170 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 6:54pm |
|
I'm breaking this up due to the cutting out of things on the site and I've lost things posting recently.
But the above proves just how hard this breeding game is. The blood just ended. And with none at stud there can be no reemergence of that line. I think there is a line in Japan which hopefully has a better end. Now finding stallions with Century you usually have to go through his son Centaine. A stallion we should never of let go! Now of the proven brigade who have at least delivered stakes winners you find Danerich who actually delivers a cross to Better Boy 5m x 5f with Century and Better Be Lucky being 3/4 sister and brother in blood. Just to make a liar of me this one is through Rubiton. Likewise an very old boy in King of Prussia (who another member has had success with) Here we find Centaine/Century, Sir Tristram etc. The 1-n line of Anabaa is that of Chelandry to whom Century's dam was inbred so I don't think that could hurt either. |
|
|
|
|
Second Chance
Champion
Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 7:06pm |
|
Correction/clarification. 
|
|
|
|
|
Second Chance
Champion
Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 7:24pm |
|
Yes Furious, good call on Danerich though I'm not quite sure why they've bumped his advertised fee up to $8,800.
|
|
|
|
|
furious
Champion
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25170 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 7:26pm |
|
Now the unproven brigade with Century or Better Boy include Wolf Cry by Street Cry from a Redoute's Choice mare and a Centaine mare and a Bletchingly mare. You would get Danzig 5m x 4m Shantha's CHoice 4m x 3m, Bletchingly 5f x 5m. Street Cry is from the 1-l line which decends from Chelandry's grandam.
Diamond Tathagata is only 5m x 4m but has Century as the sire of his 3rd dam Mornmoot Lady. You also get the cross of Tale of the Cat and Voodoo Rhythm who are from the same female family. Gold Standard doesn't have Century only his sire Better Boy (through Willowy his 3rd dam) You also find Todman and Sir Tristram through Greig and a line of 1n through Gold Carat. Here you have Rolls 5m x 5f which is a nice catch. Swear looks scary on paper but the first true cross isn't till the 3rd line and we have had closer Manhattan Rains out of Redoute's CHoice mares including a stakes perfomer. This is better being one step back. You have Centaine/Century through his 2nd dam Red Century. Shantha's Choice appears 3m x3m, Danzig 4m x 4m and Northern Dancer 5m x 5m, 5m, 5m (do you see how hard it is to find that f x m) Now away from Century but finding other blood which either worked for Century or this female line previously. Sir Tristram blood can be found in Anacheeva (with the Anabaa 1-n line) as a back up. Also I like The Minstrel cross to you Nijinsky blood. Ready for Victory is very interesting as he decends from Rubiton's dam. So a reverse cross or the lines which produced Rubiton. Sir Tristram is there and Danehill and Seventh Hussar and Todman all good. Ilovethiscity has a line of Sir Tristram, Zeditave 1n and a 1m line of Kenmare. Im decends from a sister to the dam of Chelandry. Also you find Salieri a member of the same female line as Better Boy (and Gainsborough for that matter hense the Star Kingdom blood with is liked) Zeditave is the Showdown line which has crossed well with Better Boy. Holler is a son of Commands from the Danzig line but his dam is by Strategic (Zeditave with the Star Kingdom blood of Luskin Star and Todman. You also find Sovereign Red one of the better Sir Tristram sons as the sire of the 3rd dam. The next dam is by Vain another which has been in the mix.
|
|
|
|
|
furious
Champion
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25170 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 7:33pm |
|
Maybe the cross to Encosta is just to close for Impending. For a cheaper Lonhro you could look at O'Lonhro he can throw a good one.
Inference is another with the Shantha's CHoice cross and SIr Tristram but he is the High CHaparral line.
|
|
|
|
|
furious
Champion
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25170 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 7:34pm |
|
Bother sorry I was looking at the sire and not the mix with dam! Encosta is on the third line and I love that Whiskey Road blood and you get the Better Boy through Better Draw. Good find but maybe still too dear.
|
|
|
|
|
Embark
Foal
Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 9:23pm |
|
Thank you all, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help.
I put a Sir Tristram line mare to King Of Prussia a number of years back and she had heaps of toe and won a race and looked to have a promising future but unfortunately, she broke down but not due to any conformational defects. Sometimes the best options stare you in the face and old King Of Prussia has done a good job and throws city class horses with the right mares so Isles Of Wonder, given her female line and it's affinity with Sir Tristram and the presence of Century and Anabaa, I am going to recommend King Of Prussia strongly to my friend and at $2,200, you can't go wrong really. Thanks once again to everybody around here and if you have any other thoughts about the broodmares pedigree, it would be fascinating to read. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
Gay3
Moderator Group
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52004 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 10:34pm |
|
KOP also guarantees the option of handling the wet, whatever time of year they're in work; that has to be a bonus
|
|
|
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
|
|
|
|
|
Progold
Champion
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 1:20am |
|
Just to throw one more stallion into the mix, Rebel Raider offers an interesting mating. Perhaps importantly, not quite as inbred as some of the others, and offers some stamina to the mating which is missing in some other options. Two lines of Sir Tristram, and another line of Special, but this time through her son, Nureyev who was her best progeny.
|
|
|
|
|
Shrunk in the Wash
Champion
Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 1:33am |
|
what are the thoughts on trying to reinforce that great Bletchingly/ Biscayne blood
Overshare would go that massively |
|
|
|
Topic Options
Second Chance wrote:|
Post Reply
|
|
| Tweet |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.
This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.
This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.