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Mating advice please

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runsky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote runsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mating advice please
    Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 12:34pm
Hi everyone
Been a admirer of this forum for a while
could I get some suggestions on a mating this mare please
 SOPHONY -SO YOU THINK x SYMPHONY MISS
I would like to breed to race.

much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Magnolian Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 1:01pm
I saw this filly at Inglis not long ago, went for a bargain.
Good luck with her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 1:13pm
So You Think (NZ)
2006, db
High Chaparral (IRE)
1999, b
Sadler's Wells (USA)
1981, b [CS]
Northern Dancer (CAN)
1961, b [BC]
Nearctic (CAN) , 1954, br
Natalma (USA) , 1957, b
Fairy Bridge (USA)
1975, b
Bold Reason (USA) , 1968, b
Special (USA) , 1969, b
Kasora (IRE)
1993, b
Darshaan (GB)
1981, br
Shirley Heights (GB) , 1975, b [CP]
Delsy (FR) , 1972, b
Kozana (GB)
1982, db
Kris (GB) , 1976, ch
Koblenza (FR) , 1966, b
Triassic (NZ)
1990, b
Tights (USA)
1981, b
Nijinsky (CAN)
1967, b [CS]
Northern Dancer (CAN) , 1961, b [BC]
Flaming Page (USA) , 1959, b
Dancealot (USA)
1971, b
Round Table (USA) , 1954, b [S]
Music Please (USA) , 1963, ch
Astral Row (NZ)
1979, b
Long Row (GB)
1970, br
Linacre (GB) , 1960, br
Front Row (GB) , 1965, b
Pak Bun Bay (AUS)
1970, br
Matinee Idol (AUS) , 1956, b
Philipolo (NZ) , 1960, b
Symphony Miss (AUS)
2004, b
Distant Music (USA)
1997, b
Distant View (USA)
1991, ch
Mr Prospector (USA)
1970, b [BC]
Raise a Native (USA) , 1961, ch
Gold Digger (USA) , 1962, b
Seven Springs (USA)
1982, ch
Irish River (FR) , 1976, ch
La Trinite (FR) , 1976, ch
Musicanti (USA)
1991, b
Nijinsky (CAN)
1967, b [CS]
Northern Dancer (CAN) , 1961, b [BC]
Flaming Page (USA) , 1959, b
Populi (USA)
1975, b
Star Envoy (USA) , 1968, db
Sister Shannon (USA) , 1965, db
Regencia (AUS)
1994, b
New Regent (CAN)
1977, ch
Vice Regent (CAN)
1967, ch
Northern Dancer (CAN) , 1961, b [BC]
Victoria Regina (CAN) , 1958, ch
Dobbinton (USA)
1966, b
New Providence (USA) , 1956, b
Flaming Issue (CAN) , 1960, ch
Halford (NZ)
1988, b
Sackford (USA)
1980, b
Stop The Music (USA) , 1970, b
Bon Fille (USA) , 1962, ch
Hapa Halae (AUS)
1975, br
Storm Ruler (AUS) , 1965, b
Olive Grove (AUS) , 1970, br
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 1:15pm
With thanks to one of our members who offers this service FOC Thumbs Up

http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/horse/Sophony_AUS-573480
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote runsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 2:57pm
Many thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RickoSharkus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 2:58pm
GDay mate, I'd be looking at a cheapish new stallion if you are breeding to race...something that had a bit of speed and showed up as a 2/3yo...
I have no affiliation with any stallion or stud but think WOLF CRY or READY FOR VICTORY would provide a bit of speed, both showed up early and are relatively cheapish....I'm no pedigree buff so don't know how they stack up but that's the way I'd go if I was breeding to race...
You only appreciate a fast one when you've owned lots of slow ones !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 3:09pm
Australian or New Zealand sires?

I am in Ireland.
Earlier this year I wrote programs to analyse inbreeding/linebreeding.
My test compared inbreedings in their six-generation pedigrees of 159,222 rated horses.

Some types of inbreeding showed well 
i.e. the more occurrences of the inbreeding group/type the higher the rating (on average).
There were positive inbreeding, negative inbreeding and neutral inbreeding groups/types.
The results were encouraging and I will shortly rework the programs.

I took it further to do a two-step analysis. 
This test-mated one mare picked at random (her dob 2000) with all stallions in Ireland and England.
Then I test-mated her offspring (I assumed all were female) with the ~ 400 IRE & GB stallions again to see if there were any top (on paper) horses.
From memory this test was about 390*390 ~ 150,000 test-matings and it produced about 10/20 possibles.
If you are interested I will have a go.

Below is an extract from my thread "analysing pedigrees" on boards.ie

..........................................................................................................................................................
This are an extract from the results, and might be of interest. There are four sex groups and 18+ factors in each, so 72+ pieces of information.

One piece of information was picked at random (and luckily it is informative)
Average rating (factor occurence): 80.7 (0); 81.2 (1); 81.9 (2); 82.7 (3); 83.6 (4); 85.4 (5); 87.2 (6); 91.1 (7); 105.1 (8); 75.5 (9); 76.5 (10)
Average rating increase cumulatively: n/a (0); +0.5 (1); +1.2 (2); +2.0 (3); +2.9 (4); +4.7 (5); +6.5 (6); +9.4 (7); +24.4 (8); -5.2 (9); -4.2 (10)

You can see there is an increase in rating for each increase in this factor count, from 0 up to 8. Then there is a massive drop for counts 9 and 10.
One of the earlier groups has over 25,000 horses so the average is reliable, group 9 has only 4 horses and group 10 has 2 horses. Group 6 has 1,496, group 7 has 313, group 8 has 32 horses.
...........................................................................................................................................................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 5:39pm
An interesting female family, although I don't think I would be out of line in saying that it has only had fairly moderate results of late.  Her dam, Symphony Miss by Distant Music won the G3 Mannerism, and her half brother Kingify by King Of Kings won stakes races in Hong Kong.  An interesting one in the family is Carlyle Ben who was a good galloper of the 80's who won a Chester Manifold.  More recently, a Tasmanian Guineas winner in Lyell by Tough Speed is out of the direct family.  If we delve a little further, we find a stallion called Reinsman who won an Ascot Vale as a 2yo over 1200m and later a St Leger over 2800m.  The most significant ancestor though is the great Tobin Bronze who won 19 stakes races including a VRC Derby, a Caulfield Cup and a couple of Cox Plates.  No doubt there might be some clues as to how to breed the mare from looking more closely at some of these horses.  

It would be useful to know if there was anything conformationally wrong with the mare, as her dam has been sent to very expensive stallions, and there are two half siblings who made $160k as yearlings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 5:45pm
She has an interesting pedigree runsky.  Inbred 4m x 4f to Nijinsky.  Was she injured or something just not right to stop her racing?  That also comes into it.

She comes from a once great family.  That of Tobin Bronze and his dam Amarco.  She also decends from a Melbourne Cup winner but the last four stallions used before So You Think are sprinter/milers.  Her dam is a G3 winner up to 1400m and nothing from her first three dams have won past 1600m with most around the 1200m mark so perhaps they went to So You Think hoping to get back into producing a stayer from the family.

Easier said than done as an awful lot of horses with pedigrees suggesting stamina are going around in 1000m races these days.  Yet we can send stock overseas which we consider breed for speed and they crop up winning over 1800m as a two year old!  The world basically train differently to us and without Bart Cummings do we have the trainers to challenge them over a distance anymore.

There was nothing wrong with the Nijinsky 4m x 4f - he is alway a good go to for inbreeding.  But that is where it is important to know why she didn't race.  If because to issues find a sire who retired sound.  If she was injured then you don't have that issue to worry about and there are plenty of class in the pedigree to cross between.

You have Sadler's Wells line - and so far no Danehill blood.  Sure So You Think is no Galileo but his best progeny Inference is from a Redoute's Choice mare with a second cross to Nijinsky and the third dam by Sir Tristram. 

When you find that Tobin Bronze had a cross of Serenissima and Dolabella (both from the Sir Tristram family and one he is inbred to) any cross of Sir Tristram or Star Way (also from this line) wont hurt.  Other crosses used back in Tobin Bronze were the two full brothers Pharos and Fairway (a cross of 1 family over a 13 family different to So You Think's but still a similar mix as he is 1 over 13).  Tobin Bronze was by Arctic Explorer from the Prince Rose sireline who was inbred to Solario while Arctic Explorer's dam Flirting was inbred to Friar's Daughter (dam of Bahram and Dastur). 

 Amarco was a VRC Oaks winner from a stakes winning daughter of Mount of Olives (South Australian Derby) and her dam Sister Olive was a Melbourne Cup winner and a grandaughter of Tragedy Queen who also produced Comedy King a Melbourne Cup winner who when retired to stud himself sired two Melbourne Cup winners and the great non Melbourne Cup winner but perpetual placegetter Shadow King.  Now the best progeny of Comedy King was from a mare with three crosses to Juliet (who is the tail female of So You Think).  It's a small world isn't it.

So you now know that So You Think hasn't harmed the pedigree.  You are not going to find much Arctic Explorer blood out there anymore.  The closest link will be through Imposing (by Todman)  His dam Hialeah is a daughter of Arctic Explorer.  Then as Gold Symphony was a stakes winner only yesterday you could look at his sire Reward for Effort who interestingly enough is from a different line of the same family as Juliet.  He has plenty of speed to offer with Rory's Jester and Exceed and Excel ensuring that any foal couldn't  be a plodder.

Then you could also look at that Nijinsky blood.  Hussonet was brought to Australia because he was a Champion sire in Chile.  There he had a wonderful cross with Worldwatch a son of Nijinsky.  Hussonet was a son of Mr Prospector and also a lot of his best progeny are inbred to that sire.  Mr Prospector is also from a different 13 family and they all like each other.  So if you see Nijinsky look for one or two crosses of Mr prospector in the sire you are interested in.  Or a sire already carrying that cross ie Manhattan Rain sire of She Will Reign from the Juliet female line.

Encosta also brings in a cross of Fairy Bridge with his full brother Sadler's Wells.  Or you can go back to the the second dam of Sadler's Wells Special who figures as the dam of Nureyev.  You can find him through Zabeel or Fasliyev.

Distant View a son of Mr Prospector and sire of Distant Music is from the same family as Fappiano so his blood could be or interest.

Lots of things to find interesting but always remember that this is a staying family which pure speed hasn't always helped.  Stayers aren't easy to breed (especially in Australia) but if you get one let's hope it can be one as good as Tobin Bronze!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 5:57pm
Amazing depth of analysis as always furious Clap
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by Progold Progold wrote:

An interesting female family, although I don't think I would be out of line in saying that it has only had fairly moderate results of late.  Her dam, Symphony Miss by Distant Music won the G3 Mannerism, and her half brother Kingify by King Of Kings won stakes races in Hong Kong.  An interesting one in the family is Carlyle Ben who was a good galloper of the 80's who won a Chester Manifold.  More recently, a Tasmanian Guineas winner in Lyell by Tough Speed is out of the direct family.  If we delve a little further, we find a stallion called Reinsman who won an Ascot Vale as a 2yo over 1200m and later a St Leger over 2800m.  The most significant ancestor though is the great Tobin Bronze who won 19 stakes races including a VRC Derby, a Caulfield Cup and a couple of Cox Plates.  No doubt there might be some clues as to how to breed the mare from looking more closely at some of these horses.  

It would be useful to know if there was anything conformationally wrong with the mare, as her dam has been sent to very expensive stallions, and there are two half siblings who made $160k as yearlings.

Good post.

As for the highlighted text, one later sold for a carton of Carlton which is a worry.  Along with the reality that it's hard to match a Distant Music mate in Oz.

You could probably do worse than take a punt and go for Helmet who you should be able to get for $11k tops. He stacks up ok from a line-breeding perspective, has proved he can sire superior performers in the NH, and is slowly improving in Oz.  Mind you the mare wouldn't need to be at all fizzy.

Over to others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 7:40pm
She is free of Danzig, so take your pick of any Danehill lined stallions who have runners on the board. It will give some speed as well as allowing it to still be competitive upto 2000m.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 7:47pm
Well that narrows it down to about 15 or so, including dare I say Helmet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote runsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 6:58am
A forum that helps small breeders in this way is  fantastic 
The knowledge passed on helps everyone 
We deeply feel better by sharing knowledge
The greatest champions will be born from you people who provide the depth of experience passed on to others

The best forum ever.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nostradamus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 10:00am
The female line has a possible affinity with the 16 family, particularly 16a via Bull Dog, Sir Gallahad III, Admiral Drake and Noor Jahan. As furious has noted, Tobin Bronze carried Friar's Daughter twice via his sire. Progold has shared some family members who have done well, all had reinforcement of family 16a. Indeed, G3 winner Symphony Miss shows Bull Page, grandson of Bull Dog 5x5 with another Bull Dog line via Mr Prospector in the 7th generation. Bull Page comes via Nijinsky II, damsire of Distant Music, his sire Distant View travelling tail female to Bull Dog and Sir Gallahad's full sister Noor Jahan. 

Sophony is 4x4 Nijinsky II. Nijinsky II's granddam Flaring Top has as  damsire Omaha, a grandson of Sir Gallahad II. 

Sophony has 24 lines of Plucky Liege to 12 generations.

Hail To Reason, 6x6 in Sophony is by Turn-To (damsire Admiral drake) out of Nothirdchance by Blue Swords (Blue Larkspur x Man O'War) out of Galla Colors by Sir Gallahad III. HTR's 4th dam is also by Man O'War. These close tie ups of Man O'War, Blue Larkspur often travel with this 16a family (note Flaming Page).

Teddy connects with his similarly bred family member Gainsborough, sire of Hyperion.

Just a thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 5:45pm
I did test-matings of Sophony with 302 Australian and New Zealand sires.

(after the work I noticed some sires duplicated - they appear in both country lists).

 My programs analysed the 6 generation pedigree of each.

I looked at the 302 results in descending quality order, and then looked at the pedigrees on screen.

Only 6 test-matings look mildly interesting, and none are very good.


Sophony sire lines:

Three of Sophony’s four sire lines trace to Northern Dancer.

This is in my opinion a negative as almost all sires available also have Northern Dancer sire lines.

Many duplications of Northern Dancer producing sons tend to result in a slow horse, unless there is something else to balance.

Sophony dam lines:

This area is the weakest part of any pedigree.

The sires on Sophony’s dam lines are not major sires.

Her sire’s dam line has Long Row; Matinee Idol; Marco Polo.

Her dam’s dam line has Sackford; Storm Ruler; Philanderer.

 …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Deep Field (AUS) – Sophony

Shooting To Win (AUS) – Sophony:  This sire is full-sibling of Deep Field pedigree comments same.

Full-siblings Fairy King and Sadler’s Wells on the sire lines are probably not good.

Sackford on the dam lines gives a little possibility of a good filly.

Summary: Not positive.  Not for a colt imo, better chance for a filly.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Anacheeva (AUS) – Sophony

Eight sons of Northern Dancer here could result in a slow colt.

Nureyev and Sadler’s Wells are ¾ siblings producing a daughter and son.   This might work for a colt foal i.e. daughter and son of ¾ siblings.

That daughter (Lady Giselle) and son (High Chaparral) are even more closely related (than ¾) as both trace to Norseman on their dam lines.

Anacheeva (AUS) – Sophony dam lines are more interesting.  Matching dam lines often produce a useful racing filly.

Bergamasque (Anabaa dam line) matches well with Hapa Halae on Sophony’s dam line, with about 26 matches between the two, incl. English fillies triple crown winner Sun Chariot.

The sire New Regent is on the dam lines of both Ancheeva and Sophony, a slight positive.

Summary: Not positive.  A slight chance for a good colt, better chance for a filly.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Glass Harmonium (AUS) – Sophony

Only one of the four sire lines is Northern Dancer which is unusual and increases interest, but there are still 7 sons of Northern Dancer and no daughters in this test-mating.

For a colt foal these are imo positives in the first six generations:

A daughter and two sons of Riverman;  a daughter and son of Sadler’s Wells; a daughter and son of Mr Prospector; two daughters of Darshaan; four sons of Northern Dancer (negative)

I don’t see much here to favour a filly foal.

Summary: Favours a colt, but no great possibilities.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Road To Rock [NZ ] – Sophony

As said above the full-siblings Fairy King and Sadler’s Wells on the sire lines are probably not good.

This pedigree imo will not suit a colt foal.

There is one good match of Wild Romance on the Road To Rock’s dam line and Sophony’s dam line.

Wild Romance has Pirate King (Prince Chevalier-Netherton Maid) on her sire line.

Hapa Halae has full-sibling Pampered King ((Prince Chevalier-Netherton Maid) in her dam side.

This isn’t a strong link, but full-siblings are the best link.

Summary: No good colt, and a slight chance of a fair filly.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Roc De Cambes [NZ ] – Sophony

This test-mating again has full-siblings Fairy King and Sadler’s Wells.

In this test-mating Fairy King is the sire of a filly, Fairy Lights, and Sadler’s Wells is the sire of a colt, High Chaparral.  This is much better for a colt foal.

Although there are three sons on Northern dancer in the dam side of the test mating a positive is the daughter of Nearctic, Christmas Wind.

I don’t see anything in the test-mating to favour a filly foal.

Summary: a chance for a colt foal, no chance for a filly foal.

 …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Civics [NZ ] – Sophony

 This has the usual Northern Dancer duplications producing sons.  Sophony has four in her pedigree.

The interesting link here is between Dumka on the dam line of Civics, and the sire Sackford on the dam line of Sophony, but the very strong links are between the pedigrees of Dumka and Hapa Halae.

(Dumka is also the dam of sires Doyoun, Dalsaan, Dolpour who can often be found in pedigrees.)

A filly foal might be a good runner.

Summary: little chance for a colt, better chance for a filly.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

In the above comments I’ve ignored location and stud fee.

I didn't sugar-coat my comments as that is unhelpful and expensive.


If someone wants to breed a good horse it might take two steps.

First step is breed a filly (of course it is 50% that you get a colt).

Then breed from that filly to produce a good horse (on paper).


Problems are:

The mating might not produce a filly, and it must be repeated.

At least two stallion fees, and mare keep costs.

The sire selected for the second mating may retire, die, or become too expensive.

The foal from the second mating may not be of the wished for gender.

You first design one mating from 300 possible sires, and then test-mate that with 300 sires (90,000 possibles).  

You might first have to breed a useless horse to allow you produce a good horse.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by diomed diomed wrote:

Australian or New Zealand sires?

I am in Ireland.
Earlier this year I wrote programs to analyse inbreeding/linebreeding.
My test compared inbreedings in their six-generation pedigrees of 159,222 rated horses.

Some types of inbreeding showed well 
i.e. the more occurrences of the inbreeding group/type the higher the rating (on average).
There were positive inbreeding, negative inbreeding and neutral inbreeding groups/types.
The results were encouraging and I will shortly rework the programs.

I took it further to do a two-step analysis. 
This test-mated one mare picked at random (her dob 2000) with all stallions in Ireland and England.
Then I test-mated her offspring (I assumed all were female) with the ~ 400 IRE & GB stallions again to see if there were any top (on paper) horses.
From memory this test was about 390*390 ~ 150,000 test-matings and it produced about 10/20 possibles.
If you are interested I will have a go.

Below is an extract from my thread "analysing pedigrees" on boards.ie

..........................................................................................................................................................
This are an extract from the results, and might be of interest. There are four sex groups and 18+ factors in each, so 72+ pieces of information.

One piece of information was picked at random (and luckily it is informative)
Average rating (factor occurence): 80.7 (0); 81.2 (1); 81.9 (2); 82.7 (3); 83.6 (4); 85.4 (5); 87.2 (6); 91.1 (7); 105.1 (8); 75.5 (9); 76.5 (10)
Average rating increase cumulatively: n/a (0); +0.5 (1); +1.2 (2); +2.0 (3); +2.9 (4); +4.7 (5); +6.5 (6); +9.4 (7); +24.4 (8); -5.2 (9); -4.2 (10)

You can see there is an increase in rating for each increase in this factor count, from 0 up to 8. Then there is a massive drop for counts 9 and 10.
One of the earlier groups has over 25,000 horses so the average is reliable, group 9 has only 4 horses and group 10 has 2 horses. Group 6 has 1,496, group 7 has 313, group 8 has 32 horses.
...........................................................................................................................................................

Where can I find a link to this Diomed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 5:52pm
You can do a lot with the danzig free pedigree.
 
My choices (depending on what you want to spend, or how far to send the mare).
 
The Factor
Myboycharlie
Daneshadow
Charge Forward
Casino Prince
Mikki Isle - would make an interesting cross, has the danehill through the damsire.
Reward For Effort
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 6:09pm
Glass Harmonium has to be non commercial but gee, I've found many mares who suit him perfectly on paper & this mare is another. They're virtually a mirror image of each other Big smile
The mating gives 6 instances of Lalun in 8 gens.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 6:34pm
Gay I agree with you and Diomed.

Just that it needs a leap of faith.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 9:03pm
post #36 here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057640642&page=3

The thread is a bit rambling
I don't give too much detail in that thread for a few reasons 
(1) too much work to give away (2) a few programming errors to fix

You can contact me by PM (personal message) there with questions if you like (I hope this is allowed here)
kincsem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 9:19pm
Have we narrowed down at least where the mare is located?  Guessing NSW so that would rule out a trip to Victoria most likely unless there was a real standout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 9:21pm
I know Sophony well, having seen her & her siblings from foals.
Progold & Second Chance & others are correct to question her conformation & when one considers that her older sibling & younger sibling both sold for $160K as yearlings.
Sophony was not presented for sale as a yearling & when presented for sale as a broodmare at 3YO she did not attract a bid at The June mares sale in Melbourne. In fact she was eventually " given away " to a horse dealer from Peterborough in Victoria
Structurally in both legs & body shape this filly has many issues.
The older brother by F.R. had Xray issues & when raced had wind issues.
The younger sister I noted thus:   very nice type; good size& scope, fair length of rein; legs ok, slightly offset o/s. Overall 8/10 (she was purchased by the trainer of her dam) 
 
The mare has a Street Boss wnlg & is in foal to Brazen Beau
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diomed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 9:24pm
Anacheeva (AUS) – Sophony
Not mentioned above
Ancheeva:  Rangiora on his dam line traces to the sire Paper Money
Sophony:   Pak Bun Bay on her damsire So You Think dam line traces to the sire Paper Money
and at the same distance back. 
This is another slight positive for a filly foal.
kincsem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 10:33pm
 In fact she was eventually " given away " to a horse dealer from Peterborough in Victoria
Structurally in both legs & body shape this filly has many issues.

Not THE horse dealer from Peterborough ???    In Vic ?  Or SA ??   Cry
I hope Runsky is going to look after her if she managed to escape that place .

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote runsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 8:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 8:30am
OK, so probably Victoria and based on this information, you would not be using an unproven stallion, but rather one that has a history of soundness in their progeny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote runsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 8:59am
The work that goes into matings and the expectation of a [colt] or [filly] seems to be fascinating.
Creating a life for a person or animal  takes a lot of preparation.
What environment we end up in to establish if we get a good start in life
 or a poor one.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 10:44am
Originally posted by runsky runsky wrote:

The work that goes into matings and the expectation of a [colt] or [filly] seems to be fascinating.
Creating a life for a person or animal  takes a lot of preparation.
What environment we end up in to establish if we get a good start in life
 or a poor one.




Half the breeding is in the feeding!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glencoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 1:22pm
Yes Progold . A stallion known to transmit sound legs, body strength  & topline balance . All for not to much of an outlay until the mares ability as a producer is known.
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