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Mating Advice Please - Baffled

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PhillipC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PhillipC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 6:43am
Originally posted by Cityboy Cityboy wrote:

Others might correct me but I don’t think the stats of sons of Danehill with Viscount mares are especially good. 

Thanks for all the info.  I think the above has proved to be correct in her previous mating's.  Of course there are are always other factors involved, but it indicates enough to me not to go back to a predominately Danehill line stallion.

I'm currently wading through lots of pedigrees and looking at the duplications.  

Yes, Gay, I saw he was in the auction.  I'm not in a position to have a stallion standing here though :-)

Thanks again for all the info.  So much to consider, so much to learn :-)

Cheers

Phillip
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StormSiren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 8:08am
One more to keep up the sleeve depending on how he does is Jonker. May end up being a value stallion if he doesn't pick up a major..

By Spirit of Boom, descends to Eight Carat and his dam is linebred to her (tail female, and through damsire kempinsky). There is Danehill in the pedigree but its not the tail male line

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 1:04pm
She has her own thread in Racing Phillip Thumbs Up

VERRY ELLEEGANT (NZ)Bay filly 2015 
Zed
Bay 2002
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Derna
1959
1961
5-h
16-c
Emerald Dream
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Theme Song
Bay 1987
Sackford
Bay 1980
Stop the Music
Bon Fille
1970
1962
11-g
20>
Cotehele House
Brown or black 1980
My Swanee
Eight Carat
1963
1975
8-j
9-c
Opulence
Brown 2005
Danroad
Bay 1999
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Strawberry Girl
Bay 1993
Strawberry Road
Bay 1979
Whiskey Road
Giftisa
1972
1974
4-d
18>
Pay the Piper
Chestnut 1977
Bombay Duck
Riskay Reid
1972
1972
13-c
4-m
Mulan Magic
Bay 1999
King's Theatre
Bay 1991
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Regal Beauty
Bay or brown 1981
Princely Native
Dennis Belle
1971
1960
14-c
9-b
Chalet Girl
Chestnut 1985
Imposing
Chestnut 1975
Todman
Hialeah
1954
1963
1-u
1-c
Cotehele House
Brown or black 1980
My Swanee
Eight Carat
1963
1975
8-j
9-c
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m,5m x 5m,5m Danehill3f x 3m Cotehele House4f x 4f
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Gay3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 7:36pm
One out of left field in Tassie this season Big smile



Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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PhillipC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PhillipC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

She has her own thread in Racing Phillip Thumbs Up

VERRY ELLEEGANT (NZ)Bay filly 2015 
Zed
Bay 2002
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Attica
1959
1953
2-s
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
All My Eye
1954
1954
2-f
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Derna
1959
1961
5-h
16-c
Emerald Dream
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Theme Song
Bay 1987
Sackford
Bay 1980
Stop the Music
Bon Fille
1970
1962
11-g
20>
Cotehele House
Brown or black 1980
My Swanee
Eight Carat
1963
1975
8-j
9-c
Opulence
Brown 2005
Danroad
Bay 1999
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Strawberry Girl
Bay 1993
Strawberry Road
Bay 1979
Whiskey Road
Giftisa
1972
1974
4-d
18>
Pay the Piper
Chestnut 1977
Bombay Duck
Riskay Reid
1972
1972
13-c
4-m
Mulan Magic
Bay 1999
King's Theatre
Bay 1991
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Regal Beauty
Bay or brown 1981
Princely Native
Dennis Belle
1971
1960
14-c
9-b
Chalet Girl
Chestnut 1985
Imposing
Chestnut 1975
Todman
Hialeah
1954
1963
1-u
1-c
Cotehele House
Brown or black 1980
My Swanee
Eight Carat
1963
1975
8-j
9-c
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m,5m x 5m,5m Danehill3f x 3m Cotehele House4f x 4f

Um, am I missing something?  I can't see her in that pedigree.
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Gay3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 5:44pm
 That is her pedigree Phillip LOL her name's on the top of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 5:58pm
... says Verry Elegant? Mare in question is Baffled...? Lol I’m confused too..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 7:09pm
She's an outstanding example of the Eight Carat line cross Phillip was initially wanting to use.
Still Baffled? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 7:27pm
Thought that was what you meant until you said her names on top
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PhillipC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 6:39pm
haha, thanks Gay.  I certainly was baffled :-)  It was refreshing to see SS was too :-)

Ok, so I'm a newbie to this and there is a steep learning curve, but the duplication is in different positions in this pedigree to what I seem to be able to achieve.  Is this a factor?  Large factor?

Currently wading through about 40 or so test matings, documenting duplications and whether they are sex balanced etc.  (Hopefully!!) I'm learning a lot :-)  

I have come to the realisation that she is from the same family of Canny Lad, so I think I'm starting to understand things a bit better.  I haven't yet delved into who's a full brother/sister or half brother/sister yet, but at least I am starting to recognise names and think 'hang on, isn't that the dam of ....?'

Again, thanks all for your input.  I've an open mind and am taking it all on board (well, I'm trying to - lots of late nights looking at potential matings and the brain is turning to more mush than usual :-) )
Cheers
Phillip
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PhillipC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 11:18pm
OK, so this is what I have been playing with :

Unnamed - $1650 - Bangholme

 

 

 

Torch Relay (AUS)
Brown 2006

Lonhro
Brown 1998

Octagonal
Brown 1992

Zabeel
Bay 1986

Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle

1971
1982

6-e
16-c

Eight Carat
Brown 1975

Pieces of Eight
Klairessa

1963
1969

3-o
9-c

Shadea
Bay 1988

Straight Strike
Bay or brown 1977

Mr Prospector
Bend Not

1970
1972

13-c
11>

Concia
Bay 1978

First Consul
My Tricia

1970
1974

5-f
8>

Olympic Flame
Bay 1982

Buena Shore
Chestnut 1973

George Lewis
Bay or brown 1967

Envoy
Bell's Lark

1962
1956

2-f
1-p

Full View
Bay 1962

Nadir
Kerala

1955
1958

17-b
8-h

Sports Queen
Brown 1966

Gambler's Luck
Bay 1957

Court Martial
Game of Chance

1942
1947

1-p
14-c

Nisi Prius
Bay 1945

Marconigram
Statute

1925
1939

1-i
11-d

Baffled (AUS)
Brown 2005

Viscount
Brown 1998

Quest for Fame
Bay or brown 1987

Rainbow Quest
Bay 1981

Blushing Groom
I Will Follow

1974
1975

22-d
14-f

Aryenne
Bay 1977

Green Dancer
Americaine

1972
1968

16-c
4-i

Antwerp
Bay 1988

Sir Tristram
Bay 1971

Sir Ivor
Isolt

1965
1961

8-g
6-e

Diamond Lover
Brown 1982

Sticks and Stones
Eight Carat

1972
1975

2-b
9-c

Beyond Me
Brown 1992

Bakharoff
Bay 1983

The Minstrel
Chestnut 1974

Northern Dancer
Fleur

1961
1964

2-d
8-f

Qui Royalty
Bay or brown 1977

Native Royalty
Qui Blink

1967
1966

4-k
22-d

Lemon Princess
Brown 1977

Acidity
Chestnut 1969

Orgoglio
Court Fantasy

1949
1957

23-a
10-d

Phantom Princess
Brown 1971

Royalgo
Baroda Princess

1962
1959

22-a
14>

 

 

Ancestor duplications:

Sir Tristram

5m x 4f

 

Eight Carat

4m x 5f

 

 

 

 

7 Generations – Duplication of Flaming Page x 6f, 7m, Knight’s Daughter 7f x 7m + Court Martial 5m x 6f, Nasrullah 7m, 6m, 6m x 7f, 6m, 7m, Princequillo 7f x 7m, Bold Ruler 7f, 6m

Dosage 0.83 2.60 - Miler

Domino

78

Teddy

53

Lady Josephine

42

Selene

29

Scapa Flow

46

La Fleche

65

Quiver

119

Miss Gunning

2

Chelandry

12


I think I'm going cross eyed after doing this for 40 or so stallions.  I'm not sure if I'm on the right track and looking at the correct things.  To my untrained eyes (even cross eyed), there are a few matings that 'look' to work better than others.  Quite a few look ok, with what appear to be good duplications, apart from appearing to make the resulting foal slower than the mare's pedigree herself (and on paper she shouldn't have been a slouch, although she was unraced).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 4:57am
Be a little wary with dosage re profile (ie miler)

There's a fair bit which goes into distance aptitude- fast and slow twitch muscle development (CC;CT;TT) is part, I know Byron is looking at this from a mitochondrial perspective.. dosage won't give you the full picture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 8:16am
Fwiw, Ken McLean recommends balancing Teddy & Tracery equally that's if  you going to delve that far back Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PhillipC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 8:46pm
Thanks SS & Gay.

SS, yes, I'm not relying on the dosage figures for anything but an indication, whether it's helpful or not remains to be seen.

Gay, I've been going back 14 generations.  It could be another long, late night :-)  Just as well I don't want to breed her until at least November as I don't want anything on the ground here before mid October next year.

I was relieved today when the Vet came and scanned her and gave her a clean bill of health from a reproductive perspective.  No fluid and as I suspected, she had ovulated a few days ago.  She's only been here 10 days, so I wasn't sure if her being a bit more alert a few days ago was her being in season or something else.  At least she's cycling and doesn't have any ongoing issues in her lady bits :-)
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