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Lonhro - A trend appears

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John H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 6:06pm
Appalling behaviour Isis.

I am sure you have a lot to contribute but such posts say more about you than anything else.
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Wortel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wortel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 6:15pm
I removed the post.

Totally unacceptable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magic_idol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by reng reng wrote:

Ultimately it is unknown whether a 'good performance' set of genes behaves like skin colour (with a blended result) or like tongue rolling (either can do it or can't).  Or perhaps somewhere in the middle.
Funny mate we have a Ferocity in @ the minute that was to be registered as ROAN & were told there is no such thing as a Roan Racehorse so it had tobe registered Bay ,Brown funny thing is the damn horse is Roan with Grey Spots !!!!!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jayzaa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 6:55pm
roan hoses have heads which are solid colour  eg bay head with bay and grey hairs on the body
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magic_idol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 7:49pm
You are not allowed to register a racehorse as roan . therefore it is not a Thoroughbred colour LOL
Happy Fit Horses Win Races :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 9:29pm
Many of Darleys mares by Manton, Quest for Fame, Shamardarl, Elusive Quality, Carnegie and Tiger Hill can go to Lonhro.
 
Can Reset mares go to him or is that too close?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jayzaa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 9:31pm
The roan gene is not a thoroughbred gene. What you probably have is a bay horse with "ticking"  which can be in small spots or larger irregular areas or even scattered over the whole body, including the head. Ticking can be just a few grey hairs in a small patch, to almost all the body, usually not on lower legs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biggles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 1:42pm
I think we've gone of on a tangent here, but I find it very interesting that a lot of American horses are registered as roan, when it can't be right, as it is true that it is not a thoroughbred colour.
Foals that are born chestnut or bay then turn grey can often stay a pinky type of grey until they go white, people call them  roan. When a foal is born roan they can be red roan ( chestnut base ) blue roan ( grey base ) bay roan ( bay base). A roan horse will always stay roan - they  have dark points ie legs, mane and tail. When they get their winter coat they go very pale but keep their black points, then in summer they go back to the normal roan colour whch is a mix of the base colour and white hairs, they do not have dapples as most greys but just an even mix.
I owned a blue roan pony years ago and it stayed the same colour all it's life. Roan is an unusual colour and not often seen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

Many of Darleys mares by Manton, Quest for Fame, Shamardarl, Elusive Quality, Carnegie and Tiger Hill can go to Lonhro.
 
Can Reset mares go to him or is that too close?


Lonhro over Reset mares would be 3 X 3 so no it is not too close.  In fact 2 great milers coming together would be interesting if they off load their influence to the resultant foals.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2011 at 5:09pm
Interesting thread, now that Lonhro has a sires title.
The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lotto7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 10:41am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

Many of Darleys mares by Manton, Quest for Fame, Shamardarl, Elusive Quality, Carnegie and Tiger Hill can go to Lonhro.
 
Can Reset mares go to him or is that too close?


Lonhro over Reset mares would be 3 X 3 so no it is not too close.  In fact 2 great milers coming together would be interesting if they off load their influence to the resultant foals.
 
Don't think Darley will have many Manton mares running around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 3:56pm
How many group one winning stayers have been bred in Australia, with Australian bloodlines, in the last 10 years?

Many of the countries best sires only threw sprinter milers.
Todman, Vain, Rubiton to name just a few.
 
 
 


Edited by VSP. - 08 Sep 2011 at 5:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 4:34pm
Well I can name one outstanding middle distance winner with Marscay and Vain blood - Eremein.  1st dam by Marscay, 2nd dam by Vain.
 
Look at the only middle distance 2400m WFA race on the Australian calendar the H E Tancred (BMW).  Most of the last winners are Australian bred or raised.  Cedarberg (son of VRC Derby winner Helenus), Littorio (tale Australian female line of Manto 1822), Tuesday Joy (NZ) (foaled in NZ but raised in Australia from the Denise's Joy family.  Blutigeroo a son of Encounter (almost a Golden Slipper winner) with a damline back to 1925 in Australia.  Eremein (above), Grand Zulu (Australian bred with mainly imported blood except of Military Plume a son of NZ based Sir Tristram), Freemason (female line 1919) and Tie the Knot (another from the Manto 1822 female line).  Even the great Makybe Diva did alot of her growing and developing in Australia prior to racing.  Can't claim her bloodlines though.
 
Another middle distance race dominated by Australian breds has been the  AJC Oaks with Absolutely (daughter of Redoute's Choice), Once Were Wild, Heavenly Glow, Rena's Lady (a daughter of a VRC Derby winner in Arena), Dizelle, Wild Iris, Sunday Joy and Republic Lass (a daughter of a Golden Slipper winner Canny Lad).
 
Or look at the VRC Derby with some of the winners Blackfriars, Helenus, Arena and Nothin' Leica Dane all siring good G1 winners themselves.  While Elvstroem was good enough to take his middle distance legs overseas to win.
 
What do you call Australian bloodlines.  Go back before the 1970's and most blood was imported blood the locals didn't get much of a look in.  But as you can see the female lines in both Australia and New Zealand can represent our bloodlines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lotto7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by peeer peeer wrote:

How many group one winning stayers have been bred in Australia, with Australian bloodlines, in the last 10 years?

Many of the countries best sires only threw sprinter milers.
Todman, Vain, Rubiton to name just a few.
 
 
 
 
Curata Storm, by the Biscay horse Dieu D'Or, won the Group 1 Tancred Stakes (2400m) in addition to the above.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 5:49pm
And Aus breds have won 16 of the last 17 VRC Oaks.
The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 12:30am
PERIBSEN  (IRE) b. C, 2013 {9} DP = 5-0-9-4-0 (18) DI = 1.12   CD = 0.33 - 3 Starts, 1 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: €15,000
LONHRO (AUS)
br. 1998
OCTAGONAL (NZ)
br. 1992
ZABEEL (NZ)
b. 1986
SIR TRISTRAM (IRE)
b. 1971
SIR IVOR (USA)b. 1965 [IC]
ISOLT (USA)b. 1961
LADY GISELLE (FR)
b. 1982
NUREYEV (USA)b. 1977 [C]
VALDERNA (FR)b. 1972
EIGHT CARAT (GB)*
blk. 1975
PIECES OF EIGHT (IRE)
br. 1963
RELIC (USA)blk. 1945
BABY DOLL (GB)dkb/br. 1956 *
KLAIRESSA (GB)
dkb/br. 1969
KLAIRON (FR)b. 1952
COURTESSA (GB)b. 1955
SHADEA (NZ)
br. 1988
STRAIGHT STRIKE (USA)
b. 1977
MR. PROSPECTOR (USA)
b. 1970 [BC]
RAISE A NATIVE (USA)ch. 1961
GOLD DIGGER (USA)b. 1962 *
BEND NOT (USA)
b. 1972
NEVER BEND (USA)br. 1960 [BI]
JENNIE SUE (USA)ch. 1961
CONCIA (NZ)
dkb/br. 1978
FIRST CONSUL (USA)
b. 1970
FORLI (ARG) ch. 1963 [C]
BOLD CONSORT (USA)b. 1960
MY TRICIA (NZ)
br. 1974
HERMES (GB)b. 1963
GAY POSS (NZ)ch. 1966
PEPINIERE (IRE)
b. 2007
SADLERS WELLS (USA)
b. 1981 [CS]
NORTHERN DANCER (CAN)
b. 1961 [BC]
NEARCTIC (CAN)
br. 1954
NEARCO (ITY)br. 1935 [BC]
LADY ANGELA (GB)ch. 1944
NATALMA (USA)*
b. 1957
NATIVE DANCER (USA)gr. 1950 [IC]
ALMAHMOUD (USA)ch. 1947 *
FAIRY BRIDGE (USA)*
b. 1975
BOLD REASON (USA)
b. 1968
HAIL TO REASON (USA) br. 1958 [C]
LALUN (USA)b. 1952 *
SPECIAL (USA)*
b. 1969
FORLI (ARG) ch. 1963 [C]
THONG (USA)b. 1964 *
PALMERAIE (USA)
b. 1993
LEAR FAN (USA)
b. 1981
ROBERTO (USA)
b. 1969 [C]
HAIL TO REASON (USA) br. 1958 [C]
BRAMALEA (USA)b. 1959 *
WAC (USA)
b. 1969
LT. STEVENS (USA)b. 1961
BELTHAZAR (USA)blk/br. 1960 *
PETROLEUSE (IRE)
b. 1978
HABITAT (USA)
b. 1966
SIR GAYLORD (USA)br. 1959 [IC]
LITTLE HUT (USA)b. 1952 *
PLENCIA (FR)
ch. 1968
LE HAAR (FR)ch. 1954
PETITE SAGUENAY (FR)ch. 1961


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 1:25am
Heloo,
has anybody realised, Peribsen is from the same damline as Protectionist (Petroleuse).
 
regards, Ticino
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 2:37pm
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Lonhro's son Isotherm, won the G2 San Marcos Handicap today at Santa Anita at 7/1.

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Yearling Rockbridge Bloodstock Paramount Sales, agent $120,000

Definitely not a failure....

Isotherm

Lonhro (AUS) Octagonal (NZ)
Shadea (NZ)
Game for More More Than Ready
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 5:49pm
From the above - 



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 6:18pm
Nice... is he still intact? 
Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren & Speed Hero.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 6:20pm
Answered my own question - yes he is. Group 3 winner at two as well...

Stud chance over here maybe?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 7:08pm
Still a colt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 9:58pm
Lonhro had a good day today  !!
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 9:56pm
And another good winner today.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 7:43am
Ha ha -you are wrong, James, so so wrong. It took 8 years to provide one exception to your predictions but admit- you got it wrong big time.LOL
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 8:15am
What's this referring to Tlaz?
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 8:25am
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

What's this referring to Tlaz?


Opening poster's predictions.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 8:32am
Originally posted by James0330 James0330 wrote:

Just like to talk about Lonhro who is as most of us would know was a wonderful racehorse who won over 5 Million in prizemoney and 10+ Group 1's winning up too 2000m.

I as others may have noticed a trend with him as a sire (Standing under the Darley banner)... that is the inability to sire any quality Middle Distance Stayers or horses that can perform at the top level (G1) over 1600m+.

Lonhro comes from a quality Middle Distance family, his Sire Octagonal won the AJC Derby & 2 BMW Stakes over 2400m at G1 level aswell as numerous other Group1 events at or around 2000m and his Grandsire is ofcourse Zabeel who has produced countless top line stayers who are renowned for big stage success in major staying classics. Octagonal is also as we know from the best Australasian family in the Stud Book with the likes of Don Eduardo (AJC Derby), Tristalove (Australian Oaks), Danewin (Multiple G1 2000m Winner), Kempinsky (VRC Derby Placegetter), Viking Ruler & De Beers. Lonhro's female family is represented chiefly by top sire Grosvenor (VRC Derby) aswell as National Gallery (WATC Derby), Mahaya (AJC Oaks) & Requiem the winner of the Saab Handicap.

Back to Lonhro, his oldest crops are rising 5yo which i know is young for a sire however has given us time to see this trend. Lonhro has only sired two winners at 2000m+ and the furthest of those was at 2025m by a horse in Rowland who has a stamina laden female line. This maybe the root of the issue in that he is largely being bred to sprinter milers (Due to Darleys obsession with speed). Lonhro should in theory however still be siring more 2000m+ due to his pedigree and racetrack performances.

Of course there is Denman who won the G1 Golden Rose over 1400m (A race for the breeding industry IMO) however could not run out the 1600m of the Australian Guineas. I think Denman can run 1600m however in top class company his sire may fail him as he has seemed to inherit Lohnro's inability to perform at top level high pressure races (Well noted for his performance in the Cox Plate).

He is though churning out the winners from his large crops but has developed a niche in siring a multitude of metropolitan, Listed, Group 3 and 2 winners at distances primarily from 1000m to 1600m which as mentioned is i believe largely due to not having the real mental toughness to withstand high pressure racing as all top liners require and the female families of these horses primarly sprinter miler orientated.

I'll go out on a limb and say that Lonhro will not:
Produce a G1 2200m+ WINNER
Produce a Sydney or Melbourne Cup PLACEGETTER
Produce a G2 2400m+ WINNER
Produce a G1 Queensland Derby, VRC Derby or AJC Derby WINNER
Produce a VRC Derby PLACEGETTER
Produce a Cox Plate WINNER

I dont see how a horse with Lonhro's racetrack performances (5 Group 1 2000m Wins) and coming from a classic Middle Distance Staying family on the Maternal & Paternal side cannot transmit that on to his progeny regularly at Group Level over 2000m.

Ideas & Thoughts?

Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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