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Live animal shipments

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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 7:27pm
I hope you are a vegetarian, and not 100% hypocrite ...
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 7:28pm
i dont get your argument- you are pro live export but anti halal slaughter? doesnt make sense to me 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:00pm
Very emotive issue - & quite rightly so. Seeing animals go through that just churns my guts. One arguement I don't cop is how it will cost jobs - so what ? So does the move to off-shore manufacturing in sweat shops , the car industry closing its doors because they can't make a quid , the Club industry doing away with Poker Machine attendants (& they are always SO concerned about jobs when the govt wants to increase taxes) , ect. Bottom line for me none of those are any better reason to lose jobs in this country than animals being poorly treated / handled via Live Export . The Doc is correct in saying it will only result in someone else stepping up to take our place who will probably be worse - even so I would like to see a controlled withdrawal from the industry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:06pm
Also don't think this issue is a left/right issue. Animal cruelty crosses political ideaology I think. Certainly does with me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Also don't think this issue is a left/right issue. Animal cruelty crosses political ideaology I think. Certainly does with me

It does politically in that the party most effected by the trade and it's survival is the National Party.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Also don't think this issue is a left/right issue. Animal cruelty crosses political ideaology I think. Certainly does with me


It does politically in that the party most effected by the trade and it's survival is the National Party.
Ok. The point I was trying to make is that all types of people across the spectrum have great love for animals within the same race of people. Different races can have more / less tolerance though - generally speaking of course
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:25pm
No that is why i said politically rather than ideologically
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2018 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

No that is why i said politically rather than ideologically
Actually I will change my comment. Spent a bit of time doing farm labouring during Uni breaks as a kid & I must admit the relationship between country folk & their animals was quite different to what I was used to growing up in the Suburbs of Sydney with a stack of dogs & cats. Moreso on farms. If the animal was not instrumental in "being useful" it was often left to fend for itself (like cats). In fact have a country mate ( farmers son) who always has a crack at me how we molly coddle our dog & cat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 3:12am
Originally posted by marble marble wrote:

i dont get your argument- you are pro live export but anti halal slaughter? doesnt make sense to me 

Why would you lie ... or are you really that daft?

When did I say I was pro or anti anything?

I'm just presenting and rationally commenting on the facts, rather than screeching hysterically, and you don't seem capable of processing it.

I'm not in the least bit surprised that you can make no sense of it by the way ...Wink
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 3:27am
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Very emotive issue - & quite rightly so. Seeing animals go through that just churns my guts. One arguement I don't cop is how it will cost jobs - so what ? So does the move to off-shore manufacturing in sweat shops , the car industry closing its doors because they can't make a quid , the Club industry doing away with Poker Machine attendants (& they are always SO concerned about jobs when the govt wants to increase taxes) , ect. Bottom line for me none of those are any better reason to lose jobs in this country than animals being poorly treated / handled via Live Export . The Doc is correct in saying it will only result in someone else stepping up to take our place who will probably be worse - even so I would like to see a controlled withdrawal from the industry.

It makes no sense to displace 100,000 workers, who will have virtually zero chance of re-employment in the areas that they work ... for no result ... in fact, most likely a worse result when countries with less compliance requirements step in and fill the void.

BTW, can someone please point me in the direction of ANY industry that deals in breeding animals FOR ANY PURPOSE that has a ZERO attrition rate, and is completely cruelty free? ... Puppy Farms maybe? ... no? ... Battery Hen Farming? ... no? ... Horse breeding? ... no? ... Piggeries? ... no? ... Greyhound racing? ... 

Sorry, it's impossible to create a perfect outcome, and there will always be rogues, in any industry, but it is possible to introduce more regulation and safeguards, and appropriate penalties, that will minimise the chances of animal suffering. 
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 11:34am
Most of your suggestions are good, Dr E but already there are regulations in place re live export, and have been for maybe 5 ?  or more ? years now, but no one makes any effort to see they are adhered to.  Its pointless making rules and  regs when no one is going to make any attempt to enforce or obey them.  Once the ship leaves port its at the mercy of the gods, and so are the animals on it.
For instance.  One rule is , no pregnant ewes to be shipped.
So, even beofre those sheep stepped foot out of Australian duristiction ,  people here , ie, farmers/vets/shipping agents all clearly broke the rules.  If the Aust contingent arnt going to stick to the rules, why would the shipping mob , once the ship leaves port ???
Pointless making more rules when no one has any intention of abiding by the ones already in place.    And unless someone, like that bloke , comes forward, off the ship, and blows the whistle, who is to know whats going on out there at sea ?  And its not just that ship as a one off.  Its been happening for years, and it keeps being brought to the attention of the authorities, and whats happened so far ??  Sweeet FA.  They have had years to clean up their act,  and done nothing, and no intention of doing so.  How many chances should they have ?   Its like something out of the dark ages, not 21st century Australia.
And meanwhile millions of animals are suffering like this.  How long should it be allowed to go on ??
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 12:30pm
"And unless someone, like that bloke , comes forward, off the ship, and blows the whistle"

"the whistleblower behind the leaked footage, Faisal Ullah  told 60 Minutes........."

God help us all, could he possibly be of Middle Eastern, descent, a Muslim & animal lover?
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 1:45pm
isnt it a given that how you treat your animals is a reflection on your character?

they must be monsters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 1:47pm
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Mahatma Gandhi
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/mahatma_gandhi_150700
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 1:49pm
You must be the change you wish to see in the world. Mahatma Gandhi
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/mahatma_gandhi


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 1:50pm
Image result for dalai lama on how you treat animals
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 1:59pm
imagine using these graphics in campaigns. would be very effective shoved in a politicians face.
Image result for dalai lama on how you treat animals
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 2:49pm
Thank heavens there are a few more out there besides me who care about animals and how they are treated Thumbs Up
While we are talking animals, how about signing the petition , or emailing CUB, to try and stop them doing away with the Carlton Clydesdale Team , please ?  That team are icons of Aust .  Dozens will lose their job, and  they say the horses will be pensioned off.  Right Cry  If they are too tight to maintain the show team and the staff, why would we believe they intend to care for the horses.  Out of sight, out of mind.Thumbs Down
Look how Bud in the USA have made legends out of their show teams . One would expect a brewery wouldnt be so short of cash they cant maintain a show team.Shocked
Please email and have a say, or sign the petition.

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 2:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 3:38pm
Can't understand why the ACCC can't make part of the sale of an iconic brand to maintain part of the family friendly images that people recognised to be associated with CUB, but really wtf would they care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Most of your suggestions are good, Dr E but already there are regulations in place re live export, and have been for maybe 5 ?  or more ? years now, but no one makes any effort to see they are adhered to.  Its pointless making rules and  regs when no one is going to make any attempt to enforce or obey them.  Once the ship leaves port its at the mercy of the gods, and so are the animals on it.
For instance.  One rule is , no pregnant ewes to be shipped.
So, even beofre those sheep stepped foot out of Australian duristiction ,  people here , ie, farmers/vets/shipping agents all clearly broke the rules.  If the Aust contingent arnt going to stick to the rules, why would the shipping mob , once the ship leaves port ???
Pointless making more rules when no one has any intention of abiding by the ones already in place.    And unless someone, like that bloke , comes forward, off the ship, and blows the whistle, who is to know whats going on out there at sea ?  And its not just that ship as a one off.  Its been happening for years, and it keeps being brought to the attention of the authorities, and whats happened so far ??  Sweeet FA.  They have had years to clean up their act,  and done nothing, and no intention of doing so.  How many chances should they have ?   Its like something out of the dark ages, not 21st century Australia.
And meanwhile millions of animals are suffering like this.  How long should it be allowed to go on ??

Did you know it is illegal to stand for a Federal Government election if you are a dual citizen? ... hmmm, bad analogy, when politicians break their own rules, no animals suffer - only citizens!

Did you know that it is illegal to drink and drive, text and drive, take drugs and drive, speed, etc ... there have been rules about that for decades, yet people STILL do it! ... hmmm, bad analogy again, mostly human beings who are dying from that, not many animals.

Did you know that smoking caused heart disease and lung cancer, and causes millions of deaths world wide? ... oh wait, that's legal, and no animals were hurt in the process ...

FIX THE RULES AND POLICE THEM!
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2018 at 4:43pm
BTW, whilst we must not lose sight of the fact that we are actually talking about protein that will eventually be cruelly slaughtered to appease archaic religious beliefs, I also care about animals and I am against cruelty and exposing them to any form of undue suffering ... that is the very reason that our authorities MUST fix what we do in the export trade, rather than just ban it ... the outcome from an Australian ban will be that Muslim countries will source live animals from countries that have LESS regulation, and far greater cruelty will occur ...
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Carlton United Brewery gets rid of Clydesdales

Petition



Thanks, PT .Thumbs Up  You know how technically challenged I am LOL
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 11:55am
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

BTW, whilst we must not lose sight of the fact that we are actually talking about protein that will eventually be cruelly slaughtered to appease archaic religious beliefs, I also care about animals and I am against cruelty and exposing them to any form of undue suffering ... that is the very reason that our authorities MUST fix what we do in the export trade, rather than just ban it ... the outcome from an Australian ban will be that Muslim countries will source live animals from countries that have LESS regulation, and far greater cruelty will occur ...


Just HOW do we force them to fix this , tho ?  They have had numerous chances, and they talk and bluster, and tell us how much this trade is worth to us, and what they are "going" to do, and place more limp wristed rules in place,  but nothing is done, and its been like this for years .
How long is this carnage acceptable ?  And how do we force change ?
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 12:10pm
No problem AA Thumbs Up 

I see also that this year was the first year in about 16 or so that the famous, fabulous Budweiser Clydesdales weren't featured in US Superbowl ads. It is the only thing about that stupid game I looked forward to each year.  Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 12:13pm
I know, PT !  Me too !  There are all those wonderful ads on you-tube tho, and every so often I go have another look.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 12:17pm
A reminder Smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 12:19pm
Yes...the "get your act" approach is logical / reasonable Acacia. Very hard to argue against. Unfortunately it loses its credibility a touch when nothing ever changes. Fact is they seem incapable of stopping these catastrophes. One vet on board - sort of says it all really !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 10:39am
and the rspca has OFFERED to put inspectors on these ships.

for me that is the biggest elephant NOT in the room.....why havent they been there ALL along!

forever reactive is the rspca.

who is in charge of the rspca? should be sacked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 12:20pm
Yeah but I dont think the RSPCA can just take themselves on board to travel on the ship, can they ?  They may be able to go on board while the ship is in an Aust port, while everything is hunky dory because the sheep have just been loaded, but if its a foreign owned vessel  ( and I believe all of them are ) they would have no rights or duristiction once it leaves Aust ???   I dont think ?
They may have offered to travel on these ships, but thats the last thing the foreign owners would allow, and really, how much power or influence does our Govnt have to enforce rules and regs once the ship is out of Aust waters ??  Sweet fa would be my guess. Cry  So bringing in more rules is a waste of time, because they wont be enforced anyway.

PS  is the word as I spelled it above ?  or is it " duristriction " ??? Confused
animals before people.
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