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Laryngeal Hemiplegia

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GAJ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Mar 2015 at 5:36pm
Hello, Has anyone had experience with the Tie back operation for this condition? Has it been a success or failed.
My good colt had been scoped and was diagnosed with the condition but it was only low grade at that stage and not effecting him at the gallop.
 It is much worse now and has created the situation of do we go for the op or not race him.
I have read quite a bit on the net but first hand opinions appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Galifreyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 9:55pm
I'll respond

We had one a few years ago. Will lose a couple of lengths compared to prior to developing wind issues.

If he is bred to be a stayer/ middle distance horse, I would forget it. Aerobic capacity being more important at 1600m and beyond.

If he is bred to be a sprinter, under 1600m anaerobic fitness is more critical you have a show.

Will need to race with a tongue tie to keep the airways open. Better off ridden with cover

Ours developed further issues with displacement of the soft palate

Good luck with whaterver you choose to do


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2015 at 11:46am
Thank you Gailfreyan, Yes he is a sprinter, thinking of a trial with a tongue tie on and some nebuliser treatment leading up to it. My feeling is it won't solve the problem, but have to try it before considering the surgery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2016 at 8:51am
Hello Gay - just wondering about the results you got?
I got one of those horrible phone calls yesterday to say our yearling should be withdrawn from the upcoming Adelaide Magic Millions because it's had a scoping test and failed with talk of a tie-back operation. So currently trying to work out my options from this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2016 at 10:25am
Being a roarer is not necessarily a death sentence. I had a horse, bought as a yearling from a "second" sale, who made a noise in his work and that was his only symptom. He was as strong as an ox, worked the place down and weighed over 500kg. Average weight in the end 550.
Because of the noise i had him vetted, that was when he was diagnosed as "broken winded" or roarer or lp. Could have knocked me over with a feather!
The vet actually told me of a good horse at the time, winning on Saturdays, that was a roarer. She wouldnt tell me its name...........I reckon if you keep asking you will find more stuff like that. Remember, theres always been a roarer but not the vets and their operations!
I wanted to try him before an op but the vet made me feel guilty and so he had a tie back.
He won 3 in his first 5 starts, 1000m -1100m
it was bad farrier work that stopped him in the end, a suspensory, torn frogCry
He didnt mind a nose band but hated a tongue tie. Is it my imagination but is there more use of tongue ties and nose bands nowadays? Perhaps a move a way from operations? Or because ops dont work......
Cityboy you have several options; sell cheap because the world will know hes a roarer
race him yourself but get him worked up first to determine whether hes any good or not before doing the op.
Ask experienced trainers their opinion and im sure they will say theres variable in everything; the horse still has to have the talent anyway, and be determined!Wink
Keep us informed and good luck. [remember their flesh and blood and not just a throw away item, like some would have us believe]
PS a half sister to my bloke is pretty good so it is not hereditary, the roaring that is, just bad luck.........

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GAJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2016 at 1:50pm
Hi Cityboy,
Shame your yearling has this problem, I have heard some say if your horses aptitude is for sprinting then you may get away without an operation! This was not the case in our horse though!
 
The sales are a pretty tough place to sell when your horse has these afflictions especially when the operation is not that expensive given the massive reduction in the end price of a yearling with wind issues.
We saw a well bred filly at MM last year come back in the ring after selling for 100K resell for 11K after failing a scope!
 
To answer your question, The jury is still out on the result. In saying that, the operation itself was well done and has the desired result, however I don't know if too much mental damage was done before the operation.
Our horse had other issues with his hooves and muscle damage which at the time we blamed on his declining performance, maybe it was a combination of things. However his LH had become worse and he sounded terrible, so we gave it a go.
He had four months off and was brought back into work on the 1st of September last year, his work was encouraging and he won his first trial by 3L back mid December, albeit a soft trail!
He had two starts after that, first one he came last on a heavy track, then last again after stumbling out of the barriers and then trying to buck, set him back lengths again (this is something he has never done), Had to trial again, tried to buck again on the way to the barriers, but ran a nice trial to the satisfaction of the stewards!! So we investigated the bucking and seems his old shoulder injury is back to haunt him, so he has had treatment for that and we will most likely trial him again next Saturday.
 
We now work and race him in a simple D bit and a tongue tie, His times in work are super but he just doesn't seem to get focused on race day, Some say they can have a memory of the pain and fright of not being able to breath, so in this case it is hard to say, in your instance if you are going to race your horse yourself may be better to get it done before he starts his career. Just remember they have to be fed off the ground for the rest of their life. in races they can take in muck into their lungs more easily, as our boy did on the heavy track at Doomben, he coughed for days after, not a good memory eh.
 
Sorry I can't give you a definitive answer, I will keep you posted with a more positive result soon I hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2016 at 10:57pm
Thanks to both of you for the replies above. I learnt and got a bit of encouragement from them.
I was speaking with a well known vet yesterday and he surprised me by suggesting that we should get the op done as early as possible which is different to other advice I've seen. He also mentioned how two of our current popular stallions, who had been Group 1 winners here, had both undergone the tie back operation.
For our fella we'll withdraw him from the sale, get him broken-in, if the breaker thinks he goes ok we'll get him the operation and give him a try. If the breaker doesn't rate him them I'll just give him to someone as a pet or show horse.
I'll try to provide updates on our situation in this thread as things play out over the next couple of years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2016 at 9:47am
That sounds like a great plan Cityboy, good luck with him. Just out of interest is your fellow a big horse?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2016 at 9:39pm
Probably best described as average size but definitely not big. Check out the photo of him as Lot 222 in the upcoming Adelaide MM sale if interested- but they'll probably remove photo soon with him being a scratching.

Do you have a theory that size is somehow linked to this problem?

Someone once told me that Danehill line horses are prone to these wind problems and he is Danehill line
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2016 at 10:29pm
looks very "Rubiton" and with a double cross of Century, that as well. At least he probably wouldn't be asked to go over ground which will be better for his condition. 
There is a theory thet lp occurs in bigger horses because the nerve that controls the left hand side of the throat has a longer distance to get there [or something like that!]

i wouldnt take too much notice of the Danehill influence as there would be so many more Danehill breeding as he is and was so prolific and successful that any problems will be magnified.
As mentioned elsewhere, the owner of Musket, back in the 1900's, wanted him shot because he was a roarer and didnt want to breed this on. however, Musket is the sire of 
Carbine, the ancestor of modern day top blood lines.
He looks alright to me. like his short cannons and muscular forearms. Where will he race?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2016 at 10:33pm
I like a page with Sir Tristram and Kenmare .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2016 at 6:14am
I hadn't thought about the Rubiton resemblance before but I think you're right- and I'm happy about that.
He'll race in NSW with a provincial trainer to keep costs down seeing that I'll be responsible for approx 90% of costs and it will be hard to offload more. Unlikely race as a 2yr old as none others in the family since the grand dam have raced as 2 yr olds
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2016 at 7:31am
I haven't heard of any new techniques for operating on roarers but the thinking is that if the animal is a partial roarer the surgeon has to guess to some degree how far to tie back . If the animal is placed under future stress post operation and full recovery then can the nerve failure progress to full roarer , hence require another tie back operation . It's easier to for the surgeon to do a full tie back .
I was advised to do an operation on a partial roarer (filly) and it didn't work and we had to retire the girl as she hadn't shown enough .
I firmly believe that there is a strong genetic component to the condition ,so as a breeder it's worth noting the breed of animals that fail with this condition .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2016 at 2:21pm
He is a nice looking colt Cityboy, I have heard that the larger horses are more prone, that is why I asked.
My boy is not large, but we believe his problem has stemmed from nerve damage. He had an injury as a youngster at his stud where he was bred, it is possible IV injections or IV injection not been given correctly are the cause of this problem. The near side jugular has a major nerve running along side of it and if the injection is mistakenly given (in particular Bute) it can damage the nerve and so the problem arises (so I'm told). In our horses case his N/S jugular is badly callused from many injection sites, so it is most likely the cause.
We now only use the off side vein for IVs and bloods, just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 11:22am
The next chapter in the story of our colt is that he had a trial a few weeks ago. Went great for the first 600m but faded over the last 200m. All agreed that his breathing was bothering him over the last part of the trial and he's now a full blown Grade 4 roarer.
The trainer thinks he's does have some ability so we got the operation done a couple of weeks ago and he's now recovering. Hopefully he'll get to the races sometime early next year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 2:17pm
Cityboy, good luck, glad you have done him early, he hopefully won't have any bad memories from his breathing difficulties in future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cityboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2018 at 4:00pm
Back to the long term case study of my horse. He had his 4th ever race today, first prep, for a strong win over 1400m at Kembla. Whohoo!!
I’m told that he doesn’t make noise when working now and since the operation, but our trainer says he would have been a real nice horse without the throat problem. So she must think it still affects him somehow.
Great to get a win with him today.
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