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King Of The Hill

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Bonfield View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 12:40pm
I propose a game to spice up the off season.  The aim of the game is to become the "King Of The Hill" and to stay there as long as possible.  Each week the King and one selected Challenger pick one horse each to win that Saturday.  If the King defeats the Challenger, he retains King status for another week when he faces a different Challenger.  If the Challenger wins, then he becomes the King.

King Of The Hill rules:
- King and Challenger pick one horse only for any Saturday race of their choosing
- Victor is lowest finishing position (eg win beats 2nd, 5th beats 6th)
- If equal finishing position, then highest SP is Victor
- If a horse is scratched it can be replaced before race starts
- If a scratching and no replacement nominated before race starts then the game for that week is null and void.  King and same Challenger resume the following week.

How to qualify as a Challenger:
In addition to the main King Of The Hill challenge outlined above, each week there will be a Qualifying Round which is open to anyone.  The winner of this Qualifying Round becomes the Challenger for the following week.  The rules for the Qualifying Round are identical to the King Of The Hill rules, except that in the case of a scratching where you do not nominate a replacement, the Qualifying Round is not void, you just miss out.  Basically everyone just picks a horse and the highest placed, longest priced tip earns the right to be Challenger the following week.

First week:
To kick things off we of course don't have a King or Challenger, so we have a Qualifying Round where the Victor becomes the King, and the runner up becomes the Challenger for next week.

Probably sounds confusing, but don't be put off.  Just post you best bet for Saturday and I'll guide you through it.  Have a go.  Hopefully it will be fun.Smile
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Bonfield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 12:41pm
S8: Centre Pivot
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De Little Engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackbook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 12:59pm
Flem - R2 #9 Ms Mazetti 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 1:00pm
One thing I didn't think of is what to do if two people tip the same horse.  Well I think the only fair thing to do is recognise the first person to tip a horse and ignore the other(s).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saintly96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 1:24pm
SR 7 no. 9 Craftiness
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Schillaci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 1:36pm
Flem R7 - 7 Boomwa
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 1:47pm
Swing with Me r2 flemington
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 2:26pm
Since this is a heads up match up you forgot the most important rule of the game which will dictate much of the strategy, who is required to put their tip up first? It is obviously a significant advantage to go last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Since this is a heads up match up you forgot the most important rule of the game which will dictate much of the strategy, who is required to put their tip up first? It is obviously a significant advantage to go last.
How so?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 2:43pm
Not necessarily, the sooner you tip the more likely to get your 1st choice. terrific concept Bonfield Clap
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SYT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 2:44pm
De Little Engine was my best but Bond was first in.

Big Money! (sorry Sub!)
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Bris: JUMBO PRINCE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Since this is a heads up match up you forgot the most important rule of the game which will dictate much of the strategy, who is required to put their tip up first? It is obviously a significant advantage to go last.
How so?
Because your aim is to give yourself the greatest equity possible so you tip against the your opponent.

This assumes some forecasting ability.

If they go wide in the market you fade their tip and find the shortest runner in the smallest field.

If they go short and find an even money short you look for a 5/4 shot, despite having the longer priced runner you have a huge equity advantage. If you both win the 5/4 shot wins, if you both run second the 5/4 shot wins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 2:52pm
I've noticed there's little thought given to game theory on here which is a surprise considering this is a gambling forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 2:55pm
Probably because we're not playing for thousands Confused
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Probably because we're not playing for thousands Confused
No one bets to win thousands here? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote James Bond Esq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

I've noticed there's little thought given to game theory on here which is a surprise considering this is a gambling forum.


What tactics do you suggest?

Wait till 2 minutes before the race of your choice with your 20-1 winner identified and pounce at the last second.

How is there any game theory involved in picking your best bet of the weekend or a little value for the ladies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Since this is a heads up match up you forgot the most important rule of the game which will dictate much of the strategy, who is required to put their tip up first? It is obviously a significant advantage to go last.
How so?
Because your aim is to give yourself the greatest equity possible so you tip against the your opponent.

This assumes some forecasting ability.

If they go wide in the market you fade their tip and find the shortest runner in the smallest field.

If they go short and find an even money short you look for a 5/4 shot, despite having the longer priced runner you have a huge equity advantage. If you both win the 5/4 shot wins, if you both run second the 5/4 shot wins.
I see your point.  What do you suggest?  Must the Challenger post their selection by Friday night?  Or perhaps 10am Saturday?  This would give the King last crack if he chooses to play a waiting game.  I'm not convinced it's necessary.  What do others think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Since this is a heads up match up you forgot the most important rule of the game which will dictate much of the strategy, who is required to put their tip up first? It is obviously a significant advantage to go last.
How so?
Because your aim is to give yourself the greatest equity possible so you tip against the your opponent.

This assumes some forecasting ability.

If they go wide in the market you fade their tip and find the shortest runner in the smallest field.

If they go short and find an even money short you look for a 5/4 shot, despite having the longer priced runner you have a huge equity advantage. If you both win the 5/4 shot wins, if you both run second the 5/4 shot wins.
I see your point.  What do you suggest?  Must the Challenger post their selection by Friday night?  Or perhaps 10am Saturday?  This would give the King last crack if he chooses to play a waiting game.  I'm not convinced it's necessary.  What do others think?

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Since this is a heads up match up you forgot the most important rule of the game which will dictate much of the strategy, who is required to put their tip up first? It is obviously a significant advantage to go last.
How so?
Because your aim is to give yourself the greatest equity possible so you tip against the your opponent.

This assumes some forecasting ability.

If they go wide in the market you fade their tip and find the shortest runner in the smallest field.

If they go short and find an even money short you look for a 5/4 shot, despite having the longer priced runner you have a huge equity advantage. If you both win the 5/4 shot wins, if you both run second the 5/4 shot wins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:08pm
Sorry I meant to quote bond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Since this is a heads up match up you forgot the most important rule of the game which will dictate much of the strategy, who is required to put their tip up first? It is obviously a significant advantage to go last.
How so?
Because your aim is to give yourself the greatest equity possible so you tip against the your opponent.

This assumes some forecasting ability.

If they go wide in the market you fade their tip and find the shortest runner in the smallest field.

If they go short and find an even money short you look for a 5/4 shot, despite having the longer priced runner you have a huge equity advantage. If you both win the 5/4 shot wins, if you both run second the 5/4 shot wins.
I see your point.  What do you suggest?  Must the Challenger post their selection by Friday night?  Or perhaps 10am Saturday?  This would give the King last crack if he chooses to play a waiting game.  I'm not convinced it's necessary.  What do others think?
Judging from the responses it doesn't appear to be necessary, I'm regretting saying anything to be honest.

King should have the option to tip last if he desires but it doesn't look like it'll matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:18pm
i can see sneck's point..
when in the qualifying round, you need some value as a 6/4 fav probably won't cut it..
but head to head..tipping 2nd is a decent advantage.

i think the challanger should get the advantage of tipping 2nd..
makes keeping the "king of the hill' title more impressive.
maybe make 1 aprty tip by 9pm fri night + give the other the option of tipping until
just before race time....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:22pm
also, what price do you use..? home tote, top tote?
sp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:24pm
I think Sneck has a fair point.  I think the King should have the any advantage, if any.

Extra rule:
- Challenger must post his selection by 10am Saturday.  King must post his selection by 12 noon Saturday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Ecair Issoire Ecair Issoire wrote:

also, what price do you use..? home tote, top tote?
sp?
As I said in the initial post, SP (starting price).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ecair Issoire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:26pm
sorry, i missed that .. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Bond Esq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2014 at 3:28pm
Why not just tip a winner!

We all know the idea of value and the rules.

There are thousands of winners out there heck there are even night meetings at Cranbourne and Hobart.

You guys would complicate the A B C if you could!

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Flem R7 No 13 Release The Speed
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Doomben R1, In His Stride.
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