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carche 
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Joined: 11 Nov 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1415 |
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 Posted: 07 Apr 2018 at 11:34pm |
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Who's to say he wouldn't have found himself boxed in any event despite tracking Happy Clapper? Tends to happen in big fields especially when they bunch together in the straight. Avdulla made a split second decision to peel away from the rail hoping for an opening which didn't eventuate. It happens. That's racing for you.
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djebel
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Posted: 15 Aug 2018 at 8:01pm |
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reductio ad absurdum
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maccamax
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Posted: 16 Aug 2018 at 12:13am |
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Don't knock him . He might Winx at you.
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maccamax
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 4:12pm |
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Best run of the day in the Humidor upset. 3 Wide and quick they went so prepare yourself for his " Grand Final Effort " . Anytime soon. He will pick up one of the big ones over the Spring. |
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djebel
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 4:15pm |
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He has already had 3 hard races. I think as talented as the horse is I will let him go around without me in the foreseeable future.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Tlazolteotl
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Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31417 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 4:30pm |
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2 major things against him apart from the prep- Lonhros are not big race winners and Godolphin are not big race winners.
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Second Chance
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Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 4:44pm |
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Other than his 11 individual Group 1 winners.  But I'm in Djebel's camp also. You can go to the well just so often in a prep, particularly early on when the elite races are 4-7 weeks away.
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Tlazolteotl
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Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31417 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 4:46pm |
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Make a list of the top 10 races in Australia, then count how many of them Lonhros have won. BY my count it is 1. What's yours?
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Carioca
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Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21821 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 4:51pm |
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Two major things to help him, in good stable, and will be ridden by a top jock, no need to worry about prep, has had 3 runs this time in, bring him back to Syd. barrier trial in 2 weeks and into the Epsom on the 30th Sep, perfect imo, D'Argento the danger .
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Second Chance
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Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 5:13pm |
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My count is one also. Mind you, 99.5% of all stallions have never had a single winner of any one of the top 10 races in Oz. And Champion sires Snitzel, Encosta De Lago and Fastnet Rock have only had 3 apiece.
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djebel
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 5:24pm |
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Melbourne Cup
Caulfield Cup Doncaster handicap TJ Smith Golden Slipper - Pierro Newmarket Handicap Queen Elizabeth Stakes George Ryder Stakes - Pierro Caulfield Guineas Lightning Stakes |
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
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Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 8:15pm |
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2 handicaps djebel? Ten minutes in the naughty corner for you
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3blindmice
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 8:17pm |
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Woops. 4, but nobody (???) would leave out the two cups.
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djebel
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 8:23pm |
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They should not be group 1 races.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Second Chance
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Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45716 |
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 8:44pm |
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We might actually have trouble agreeing on the Top 10 Australian races.
For instance, the Slipper is clearly a truly iconic and hugely influential race on the Australian racing calendar. But is it in the top 10 races in terms of class given that it's restricted to SH 2yo's with no NH influence as is now frequently the case with races like the Melbourne Cup, elite WFA races, Doncasters etc?
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djebel
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 8:54pm |
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So the races that are the only ones our trainers have the ability to develop theiir horses for will ALL be ruled out fhe top 10, Fair enough. Epsom Handicap Darley Classic Lightning Stakes Newmarket Handicap George Ryder Stakes Doncaster Handicap TJ Smith All Aged Stakes Queen Elizabeth Stakes Stradbroke Handicap |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Magnolian Khan
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Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 5:59pm |
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Running Sat in the Makybe Diva
Craig Williams to ride |
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furious
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 6:55pm |
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Sorry the Golden Slipper is the most influential race in Australia and year in and out should be on the list. Sorry its my home town best race. In the history of the Australian turf it is hands down the best race for future success at stud. You have to be fast. You have to be hardy. You have to stand up when the lesser lights haven't even started yet. It produces winners and runners who when at stud can get winners from 900m to 3200m. Two of the greats Todman and Luskin Star crop up in staying pedigrees all the time. And you can't forget Pago Pago who has probably had more classy stayers with him in the pedigree than even the other two - thanks largely to going overseas.
Sebring is certainly capable of getting a stayer, Pierro certainly can also. Even Sepoy is starting to show some good class winners here and overseas. Stratum got both a slipper and an Oaks winner (among others) Flying Spur is still there in top class pedigrees, Danzero got a Derby Winner and plenty of others, Canny Lad had an Oaks winner and has worked his way into an awful lot of top class pedigrees thanks to his daughters sire sons, Rory's Jester was probably pure speed but people love to see him in a pedigree, Marauding and Star Watch both sired good G1 horses, Marscay had plenty of distance and speed horses, Baguette had a Golden Slipper winners and was more a speed type, Vain is still loved in a pedigree, Pago Pago, Sky High and Todman all got classic winners. What other 1200m two year old race world wide could deliver such class. And it is quite remarkable how few geldings have won the race but Dance Hero (one that did) race on into his sixth year (the ei season of 2007-08). While the mares haven't let the side down. Courtza is the dam of O'Reilly both a top galloper and sire. Fairy Walk, Storm Queen, Sweet Embrace, Merlene, Bounding Away (with only one daughter) are some names which still appear in stakes pedigrees. Miss Finland has her G1 daughter (actually her dam had a winner overnight in France) and plenty of fillies to help her line produce into the future.
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3blindmice
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Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 7:13pm |
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Needs to find to beat Humidor imo
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furious
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 7:14pm |
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Just as a case study. The T J Smith goes back to 1997 only but not one winner of this great 1200m sprint event has yet made a sire. Seems to mostly be won by geldings or mares. THe one horse has only been a fair sire while the colt from last year will hopefully break that mold.
The George Ryder has a longer history so far more chances. Well Pierro has certainly started well but then again he won the Golden Slipper. Haradasun really didn't set the world on fire. Lonhro has been a champion on and off the turf. Mouawad didn't fire because he couldn't. Straussbrook went to NZ and was fair, Dalrello (fair), Baguette (oh another with a slipper and with the other slipper winners the performer at stud). The Newmarket is another 1200m with a long history. We have Brazen Beau with his first runners this season, Shamexpress has started quite well in NZ, Wanted (fair), Exceed and Excel (Champion oh he actually ran in the slipper winning the Todman as a lead up), General Nediym (also a very good sire and guess what ran 4th in the Golden Slipper), ah we find one without slipper form in Century (Champion and also an outstanding 2yo in Victoria), Baguette (slipper), Manihi (very good sire) etc etc.
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VOYAGER
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Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18736 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 8:38pm |
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Okay I am not actually understanding the issue here.
Are we deciding what the top races are through their breeding influence, or are the top races, just the races themselves. I think the Blue Diamond has a fairly good record as a source for sires. Star Witness, Bel Esprit, just off the top of my head. |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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furious
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 8:55pm |
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Yes nothing wrong with two year old races for producing sires. They have to be tough to run at top class as 2yo's. You can add Redoute's CHoice and Century to the above voyager. But it has never challenged the Golden Slipper as the race that the owners, jockeys and trainers wish to win. That makes a great race when people say what race do you want to win. The Melbourne Cup is only a handicap and usually run now by anything but the local brigade but it is a great race as it is still on the list of one of the races that once again the participants wish to win.
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Tlazolteotl
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Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31417 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 9:00pm |
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Surely the Everest has to be in the top 10, if not number 1.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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3blindmice
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Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 9:04pm |
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Someone start a NEW TOPIC please. A good filler for slow news days or after spring although I suspect that most of us would only differ on 2 or 3 races.
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JudgeHolden
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Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 9:45pm |
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They're both tricky horses. Talented but I'm not sure I trust either of them. If KWD draws a marble he can settle much closer, which would make him very hard to beat. The Clapper should improve, and Grunt too. Shaping as a terrific race.
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scamanda
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Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Location: The Manor Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 10:10pm |
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Grimm news.
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I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Carioca
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Posted: 09 Sep 2018 at 11:26pm |
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Suppose if he runs well could make it back for the Epsom, weights out tomorrow I think. |
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Cityboy
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 873 |
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Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 10:26am |
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No Cox Plate in the lists of top 10 races noted above?
An oversight or intentional? It’s my no.1 |
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Speediskey
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Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 10:29am |
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It's intentional, of course it's most peoples #1, but it wouldn't be Djebel if he didn't whinge about Moonee Valley or a horse not starting first up over 2000m.
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furious
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Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 11:38am |
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Yes the Cox Plate is on my list also Cityboy. It is also one of those races everyone wants to win. That is really the reason a race should be on the list.
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