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Islam - Time to Push Back?

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Dr E View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 May 2017 at 3:28am
There is no question that Islam is the root of ALL terrorism in the world today ... denial is irrational.

Is it time for Western Democracies to take this crap head on, with our own "radical" responses?

Who is arguing with Trump's "Islamic Ban" right now?

Why are we not deporting people like Man Monis?

Is it THAT politically expedient, that we should just cop it up the ass from these Radical Islamic invaders???Confused

... or is PT right?
Yes Whale, I'm STILL undecided ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 4:55am
Who is right ? I'm not sure what PT's solution to the problem is but I don't think a strong hand will work either . Don't get me wrong ,you have to come down hard on the bad apples though .

I think terrorism has very little to do with Islam and everything to do with a racial and cultural divide in the guise of religion . The problem appears to be with first generational younger types inspired by racist radicals posing as preachers .
From all I've read and heard most immigrants are moderate and want to assimilate within their new culture and punishing them in any way by demonising the good citizens won't work .
How do you fix it , other than a 2 or 3 generational integration ? NFI .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:33am
Start talking death sentences and removing the cause of the problem.
       ISLAMIC SUPPORTERS .
Yes , many Muslims want peace but aren't prepared to walk away from a cult of death to show us how bad they want to live in peace .

      The innocents who die at the hands of these radicalises madmen are more innocent than the hordes who proudly claim to be moderate Muslims .
   STOP allowing more into the country and remove those who preach otherwise.
   There is no middle ground and for those who are white anting Donald Trump ,   STOP and think how proud you are today , for supporting the very people he is trying to reduce from entering his Country.

A candle vigil is about all our weak Governments have to offer.
WE REAP AS WE SOW = SO
    NO NO NO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:23am
My ''solution'' to the problem is to address the root causes of what motivates young people to think that they need to involve themselves in a cause and who it is that pushes them into it

This kid was born in England of Libyan descent and traveled to Libya in 2011 and was apparently greatly affected by the extreme violence there. Why was the Libyan revolution happening? 

The west decided a few decades ago  that tough neighbourhoods ruled by hard men that kept their countries stable and free of radicalism wasn't the desired model for us, and decided to change them all. Terror groups were born out of these so called revolutions. 

What is the motivation for destabilizing these countries? In every one of these internal conflicts going back to the Afghanistan invasion by USSR, you had the US engaging in a proxy resistance funding the push back. Every conflict since has been the same, one of the two superpowers starting or triggering the start with a pushback from the other. 

The result is cycles of civil war, power vacuums and resistance and terror groups growing from it. These groups draw support and recruits from people who feel a connection to either the country involved or a general opposition to the geopolitical games played by the superpowers and their surrogates(Iran and Saudi Arabia) using the subtext of religious wars as motivation to these recruits.

While large powers continue to do what they do, these wars will continue, terror groups will continue to emerge and these sort of inspired events in support of those groups will continue. Address the problem, not the symptoms
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:37am
It beats me why Muslims don't get out in large numbers when things like this happen and loudly protest that this idiot does not represent me or my religion- if only for PR reasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:44am
Wow...look at the depth and angst you go to when it involves the usa and other super powers influence and interference into the middle east and your muslim brothers.

For all other interference and ultimate death and destruction...you flat out applauded it for how it gave you a life of comfort, even rationalising it in your hypocritical gead by saying "we dont know how those countries would have turned out otherwise"

Btw...i actually agree with your assesment for the most part. but your selectivity and rank hypocrisy is off the charts.

and you can also condemn the filthy bastards who egage in the acts of terrorism on your confortable western soil. they are evil bastards too, yet i cant recall you ever commenting on their atrocities with an ounce of compassion or empathy for the victims. Oh thats right...you are an intellectual. they dont do that compassion stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 8:51am
You agree but will just take the opportunity to attack me anyway....because that is what sad little people do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:01am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

You agree but will just take the opportunity to attack me anyway....because that is what sad little people do.


i pointed out your pathetic, sad, hypocrisy.

whilst parents and families are organising funerals, visiting hospitals and rinsing their kids hair to get pieces of human flesh out of it, i know your thoughts are with the 2 muslims being yelled at on the bus today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:33am
census data from 2011 said abedi lived at fallowfield - 20% muslim population.

nearby suburbs - rusholme - 38% muslim. longsight - 54% muslim.

asssimilation or muslim enclaves. ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:55am
The reasons PT has given for the radicalisation of Muslim youth in western countries is spot on but is completely useless in determining what to do about it!

It's way past time that all the peace loving Muslims of the world got off their butts and did something about their radicalise youth. What is the peace loving innocent Muslims number one priority? The community and country they live in or their religion?

The pathetic excuse for a human being who blew himself up in Manchester would have been praying in a Mosque that day. People would have known he was a risk . Why did they do nothing? If Muslims want respect it's about time they earned it. The only ones who know for sure who the dangerous radicals are are their fellow Muslims and they must start cooperating with authorities and weed the bastards out.

Bombing ISIS in Syria is not going to do anything to stop the radical young person in Bankstown for example. Or Paris or London etc. And only their fellow Muslims know exactly who they are.

This is not the time for political correctness. It's time for Muslims communities around the world to get serious about weeding out the poison of radicalisation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:42am
Baguette, spot on! Sadly we have already let in the dangers that be, they walk amongst us, preaching to the young and making them want to kill themselves in the name of ISLAM.
Most muslims will not take on our values, instead they enshrine themselves into communities that are muslim dominated, and they grow and grow. Why, because they want to make muslim the religion of the world. That is why they come here and have 4-7 kids, so then they can have kids and just continue to dominate us.
 
The only people who can stop the radicalisation is muslims. They need to denounce these extremists and work with security of their country to get rid of them.
 
We need to become like Switzerland? Unless you intergrate you get booted out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

The reasons PT has given for the radicalisation of Muslim youth in western countries is spot on but is completely useless in determining what to do about it!

It's way past time that all the peace loving Muslims of the world got off their butts and did something about their radicalise youth. What is the peace loving innocent Muslims number one priority? The community and country they live in or their religion?

The pathetic excuse for a human being who blew himself up in Manchester would have been praying in a Mosque that day. People would have known he was a risk . Why did they do nothing? If Muslims want respect it's about time they earned it. The only ones who know for sure who the dangerous radicals are are their fellow Muslims and they must start cooperating with authorities and weed the bastards out.

Bombing ISIS in Syria is not going to do anything to stop the radical young person in Bankstown for example. Or Paris or London etc. And only their fellow Muslims know exactly who they are.

This is not the time for political correctness. It's time for Muslims communities around the world to get serious about weeding out the poison of radicalisation.


Good call. whilst the roots of the problem are one thing, and need a reversal....the fact is, terrorism exists all over the world now and is only getting worse. much more needs to be done to suppress it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:51am
Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

Baguette, spot on! Sadly we have already let in the dangers that be, they walk amongst us, preaching to the young and making them want to kill themselves in the name of ISLAM.
Most muslims will not take on our values, instead they enshrine themselves into communities that are muslim dominated, and they grow and grow. Why, because they want to make muslim the religion of the world. That is why they come here and have 4-7 kids, so then they can have kids and just continue to dominate us.
 
The only people who can stop the radicalisation is muslims. They need to denounce these extremists and work with security of their country to get rid of them.
 
We need to become like Switzerland? Unless you intergrate you get booted out.



you talk sp much crap, you are no Einstein Confused
FORMER winner of the TBV Champion Tipster Award
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

The reasons PT has given for the radicalisation of Muslim youth in western countries is spot on but is completely useless in determining what to do about it!

It's way past time that all the peace loving Muslims of the world got off their butts and did something about their radicalise youth. What is the peace loving innocent Muslims number one priority? The community and country they live in or their religion?

The pathetic excuse for a human being who blew himself up in Manchester would have been praying in a Mosque that day. People would have known he was a risk . Why did they do nothing? If Muslims want respect it's about time they earned it. The only ones who know for sure who the dangerous radicals are are their fellow Muslims and they must start cooperating with authorities and weed the bastards out.

Bombing ISIS in Syria is not going to do anything to stop the radical young person in Bankstown for example. Or Paris or London etc. And only their fellow Muslims know exactly who they are.

This is not the time for political correctness. It's time for Muslims communities around the world to get serious about weeding out the poison of radicalisation.


ClapClapThats it, plain and simple, and exactly right.
Well said.  
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:10am
It isn't as simple as putting it back on families and communities but we should be supporting them to help, not condemn them by extension, for every thing that happens.

To say that this simply is the answer is to say you have the answer to why 15 - 25yo males rebel against family and society and it's rules. Rebellious teenagers getting drunk fighting joining gangs committing crimes, punching each other to death killing people in car crashes driving recklessly is a male issue, not a religious radicalization issue. 

These groups target this age group because of their vulnerability. Australia is working hard with communities to help with this and it is cooperation with families and communities that keeps us safer than most Forcing people to come out and publicly denounce every action undermines that process and forces frightened people to not want to be demonized and stay quiet There is a reason spy agencies dont publicize every action they take
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

Baguette, spot on! Sadly we have already let in the dangers that be, they walk amongst us, preaching to the young and making them want to kill themselves in the name of ISLAM.
Most muslims will not take on our values, instead they enshrine themselves into communities that are muslim dominated, and they grow and grow. Why, because they want to make muslim the religion of the world. That is why they come here and have 4-7 kids, so then they can have kids and just continue to dominate us.
 
The only people who can stop the radicalisation is muslims. They need to denounce these extremists and work with security of their country to get rid of them.
 
We need to become like Switzerland? Unless you intergrate you get booted out.

I think you'll find our police have eyes and ears in the local mosques. We have had terror attacks prevented in Australia because of the great work being done with the muslim community by the various police forces. Most Australian muslims are peace loving people.

Unfortunately the Man Monus type cowards who pop up are on the fringe. He and his wife were known to police but were left in the community. IMO the law enforcers have their hands tied by soft senators and judges who protect these people and that needs to be changed.

In time we could end up like England or France. 

I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:17am
And as Tiaz says, why dont the peace loving Muslims come out in force.  Join together and speak out loud and clear, to denounce this sort of thing ?
Why dont they integrate into communities instead of setting up their own enclaves in suburbs where public pools need curtains for women to swim behind, for heavens sake !
Integrate and assimilate seem to be 2 words they dont know or care about.   They dont want to know.  Just move into a suburb and out breed everyone else so before too long they believe its theirs by right , to live as they please how they please, and bugga the laws and customs of the country they have chosen to live in.
And dont let any of the ones gone O/S to fight come home.  Let them rot there.
PT is always good at words, telling us why its all our fault these idiots become radicals, but he never comes up with a sensible suggestion as to what to do about it.
Let Mr Dutton have a free hand to kick out any who dont meet the criteria, and all those "false " refugees for starters.   
Then lets make it plain to the bleeding hearts brigade we arnt bending over any more.  Live by the law of this land , become Australian, or piss off elsewhere.  
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:18am
PT's so called reasons for Islamic terror are half baked, selective, ignorant and wrong.
 
The problems with Islam are not created by the west or eastern superpowers. They may be compounded by outside influence by they are certainly not created by it. They are and always have been created from within. Tribal conflict has been part and parcel of the region for centuries. Africa suffers the same indignity. Too many divisions in society. The so called superpowers have largely been involved in the conflict for just over 100 years. Before that a few crusaders staged their religious war. The Turks ruled the area with an iron fist under the banner of the Ottoman Empire. They had more influence than any western superpower.
 
The real problems predate the creation of the Islamic religion. They have only been exacerbated by the emergence of Islam and modern times.
 
 
Since the creation of Islam divisions within the faith have been maintained along tribal lines. There are so many different branches of Islam with different beliefs. One mans talisman is another's sign of apostasy. One mans goodwill is a death sentence to another. Rumours and feuds have been fed over centuries causing divisions that have never been rectified. Before Islam there was Zoroastrianism and Yazdanism. Whatever the religion there was always conflict. For many from the region conflict is a staple part of life. Thanks to the internet, migration and media that conflict has now spread across the globe.
 
The terror groups have always been in the region. The so called tough guys never wiped out terror, they lived by it. When it comes down to it the terrorists simply enjoy better global and instantaneous exposure in 2017 than 1823. There is no easy fix.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:21am
id guess a major problem within the muslim community is identifying the 'radical' ones.

because what constitutes a radical muslim?

we know islam is a religion with many interpretations. the radical jihadist is probably seen as a devout muslim within the community.
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Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

And as Tiaz says, why dont the peace loving Muslims come out in force.  Join together and speak out loud and clear, to denounce this sort of thing ?
Why dont they integrate into communities instead of setting up their own enclaves in suburbs where public pools need curtains for women to swim behind, for heavens sake !
Integrate and assimilate seem to be 2 words they dont know or care about.   They dont want to know.  Just move into a suburb and out breed everyone else so before too long they believe its theirs by right , to live as they please how they please, and bugga the laws and customs of the country they have chosen to live in.
And dont let any of the ones gone O/S to fight come home.  Let them rot there.
PT is always good at words, telling us why its all our fault these idiots become radicals, but he never comes up with a sensible suggestion as to what to do about it.
Let Mr Dutton have a free hand to kick out any who dont meet the criteria, and all those "false " refugees for starters.   
Then lets make it plain to the bleeding hearts brigade we arnt bending over any more.  Live by the law of this land , become Australian, or piss off elsewhere.  


lots of reality in that. 👍
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Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:


PT's so called reasons for Islamic terror are half baked, selective, ignorant and wrong.
 
The problems with Islam are not created by the west or eastern superpowers. They may be compounded by outside influence by they are certainly not created by it. They are and always have been created from within. Tribal conflict has been part and parcel of the region for centuries. Africa suffers the same indignity. Too many divisions in society. The so called superpowers have largely been involved in the conflict for just over 100 years. Before that a few crusaders staged their religious war. The Turks ruled the area with an iron fist under the banner of the Ottoman Empire. They had more influence than any western superpower.
 
The real problems predate the creation of the Islamic religion. They have only been exacerbated by the emergence of Islam and modern times.
 
 
Since the creation of Islam divisions within the faith have been maintained along tribal lines. There are so many different branches of Islam with different beliefs. One mans talisman is another's sign of apostasy. One mans goodwill is a death sentence to another. Rumours and feuds have been fed over centuries causing divisions that have never been rectified. Before Islam there was Zoroastrianism and Yazdanism. Whatever the religion there was always conflict. For many from the region conflict is a staple part of life. Thanks to the internet, migration and media that conflict has now spread across the globe.
 
The terror groups have always been in the region. The so called tough guys never wiped out terror, they lived by it. When it comes down to it the terrorists simply enjoy better global and instantaneous exposure in 2017 than 1823. There is no easy fix.
 
 


great read

ive said before...islam has patriotism along family, tribal, village lines. uniting under a national banner seems way too incompatible to many of them. and so we see the lack of assimilation in western countries all over the world. our democracy is incompatible withtheir interpretation of democracy.

somehow, they need to accept a whole new way of life when they migrate to places of safety and freedom. how.?? i dont know
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

Baguette, spot on! Sadly we have already let in the dangers that be, they walk amongst us, preaching to the young and making them want to kill themselves in the name of ISLAM.
Most muslims will not take on our values, instead they enshrine themselves into communities that are muslim dominated, and they grow and grow. Why, because they want to make muslim the religion of the world. That is why they come here and have 4-7 kids, so then they can have kids and just continue to dominate us.
 
The only people who can stop the radicalisation is muslims. They need to denounce these extremists and work with security of their country to get rid of them.
 
We need to become like Switzerland? Unless you intergrate you get booted out.



you talk sp much crap, you are no Einstein Confused

Wow, are you really that poorly informed?

Can you read, or are you just a parrot? ... try to educate yourself a little bit ... that is EXACTLY what they are trying to do.

“You are the future of Europe”: Erdogan urges Turks in EU to have at least 5 kids

  BY 
Yes Whale, I'm STILL undecided ...
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I thought Erdogan was our friend. Didn't Donny ring him to congratulate him on officially becoming dictator of Turkey after his rigged referendum, and didn't he host him in the White House last week to celebrate him?

Treason is a complicated thing eh Doc? 
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Oh, so does that mean that Whale knows anything about what he is bleating about?

So Erdogan was "just kidding" when he said Muslims are the future of Europe?

So what is it ... too little or too much diplomacy from Trump, I can never remember with you, except that it is NEVER right!Ermm

As for treason ... ask Slippery Sam Dastyari for a "Muslim of Convenience's" thoughts on treason ... it has a price in the ALP, and it ain't very expensive ...Wink
Yes Whale, I'm STILL undecided ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 2:20pm
I am not surprised you are so confused following Trump, Doc, although I think you started from a low base
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

It beats me why Muslims don't get out in large numbers when things like this happen and loudly protest that this idiot does not represent me or my religion- if only for PR reasons.
 
 
God, this is nonsense. They do, you just don't bother to acknowledge it. There was a protest of over 1 million muslims last year against ISIS.
The muslim council of GB have released a statement saying they condemn it in the strongest possible way. There were muslim cab drivers giving free lifts home to people after the attack, muslim doctors helping the injured, muslim people at the peace march yesterday.
These statements of yours are nonsense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

And as Tiaz says, why dont the peace loving Muslims come out in force.  Join together and speak out loud and clear, to denounce this sort of thing ?
Why dont they integrate into communities instead of setting up their own enclaves in suburbs where public pools need curtains for women to swim behind, for heavens sake !
Integrate and assimilate seem to be 2 words they dont know or care about.   They dont want to know.  Just move into a suburb and out breed everyone else so before too long they believe its theirs by right , to live as they please how they please, and bugga the laws and customs of the country they have chosen to live in.
And dont let any of the ones gone O/S to fight come home.  Let them rot there.
PT is always good at words, telling us why its all our fault these idiots become radicals, but he never comes up with a sensible suggestion as to what to do about it.
Let Mr Dutton have a free hand to kick out any who dont meet the criteria, and all those "false " refugees for starters.   
Then lets make it plain to the bleeding hearts brigade we arnt bending over any more.  Live by the law of this land , become Australian, or piss off elsewhere.  


lots of reality in that. 👍
 
 
No, there isn't.
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subastral View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 2:49pm
Might want to look into Mr Dutton's claims of fake refugees for starters. Bald-faced lies from a disgusting human. Didn't have the balls to repeat his claims in parliament because he knew his numbers were lies.
Might want to look into the fact that these so called fake refugees were banned until recently from applying for refugee status.
 
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Tlazolteotl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

It beats me why Muslims don't get out in large numbers when things like this happen and loudly protest that this idiot does not represent me or my religion- if only for PR reasons.
 
 
God, this is nonsense. They do, you just don't bother to acknowledge it. There was a protest of over 1 million muslims last year against ISIS.
The muslim council of GB have released a statement saying they condemn it in the strongest possible way. There were muslim cab drivers giving free lifts home to people after the attack, muslim doctors helping the injured, muslim people at the peace march yesterday.
These statements of yours are nonsense.

Where?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

I am not surprised you are so confused following Trump, Doc, although I think you started from a low base

All I know is he is the POTUS, and with that, the acknowledged leader of the free world, and that American and Australian Patriots alike, have always respected and supported the position ... until the current trend of bed wetting became popular amongst the unhinged irrational elitist Social Justice Warriors ... no finger pointing, just sayin' Wink
Yes Whale, I'm STILL undecided ...
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