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Inbreeding to Danehill

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furious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 2:51pm
Still got the More than Ready/Flying Spur thing going only in reverse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 2:53pm
Skating, What a great matriarch.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 1:50am
Champagne Stakes winner, The Mission is another one for the 'second pattern' file... but which one is the second?

He can't be the first foal bred on the Choisir/Redoute's Choice cross (surely?). So, if the reflective patterns in Great Selection and Canny Lad aren't the key, is it as simple as Danehill on top with MTR in the bottom half? Thus making the Great Selection/Canny Lad nick the 'second pattern' and the Danehill duplication an added bonus?

Fair dinkum, the should've called him Nan's Veggie Soup. Everything in the pot, no idea which flavour is which.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 2:09am
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

He can't be the first foal bred on the Choisir/Redoute's Choice cross (surely?)

The free wiki-style info at Pedigreequery shows a grand total of three runners, The Mission included, from (at a guess) 10 years worth of opportunity. There must be more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 10:25am
Well Choisir and Redoute's Choice are very close in genetic make up.  They have more than just the Danehill cross.  He is the first winner from 8 foals and 6 starters from 6 different mares - according to equineline.

It could be that there are no other close crosses other than the Danehill 3 x 3.  Some of the others may have had other lines of Biscay or Lunchtime or even more Danehill blood.

This is close to close Danehill/Lunchtime/Biscay (the big three) in both but Lunchtime and Biscay are off in the 6th line in the mare My Amelia.  If you had say a second dam by Snippets or Canny Lad (and alot of Canny Lad mares went to Redoute's Choice) you would have a far busier pedigree and that could create troubles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 2:52pm
Unlikely Pin Up Boy
Tara Madgwick - Thursday, 20 April 2017
When Guelph won the Group I ATC Champagne Stakes in 2013, horses bred with a double cross of legendary sire Danehill had found their pin-up girl, but it's taken four more years for a pin-up boy to emerge.

The Mission

The Mission

That horse is Paul Perry's headstrong colt The Mission, who led and dominated from the front to win the Group I ATC Champagne Stakes at Randwick last Saturday.

By Choisir from a daughter of Redoute's Choice, The Mission is the fourth Group I winner to carry the double cross and is only the second in Australia after Guelph.

Current statistics for the double Danehill courtesy of Arion show 46.7% winners to runners (1221 winners from 2614 starters) with 57 stakes-winners.

Among those stakes-winners are current season two year-olds Gunnison, Single Bullet, Debellatio, Ducimus, Pateena Arena, Seannie and of course The Mission.

The Mission is an interesting pin-up boy for a number of reasons starting with his pedigree.

Choisir

Choisir

The double Danehill configuration comes in many different patterns, but 3 x 3 in the male line pattern like The Mission has until now thought to be one of the least successful.

In his favour may well be Choisir.

When you run a report for the double Danehill cross, but look at only those involving Choisir the statistics improve markedly.

We find 51.3 % winners to runners with eight stakes-winners making for 4% stakes-winners to runners which is double what we find when just looking at the straight double Danehill.

Another factor making The Mission a somewhat unexpected star is his purchase price and yearling picture, neither would suggest star in the making!

The Mission as a yearling - a work in progress

The Mission as a yearling - a work in progress

Consigned to the Magic Millions by Edinglassie Stud, The Mission was only good enough for Book Two and was picked up by Paul Perry for just $32,500 making him the cheapest colt by Choisir sold at the Gold Coast in 2016.

As you can see in his yearling picture, The Mission was a work in progress and it's a credit to Paul Perry that he saw the diamond in the rough.

Young thoroughbreds go through growth spurts at various stages of their development and it's fair to day The Mission was not seen at his best last January.

Given his pedigree (the iffy double Danehill) and his type (work in progress), it's no wonder that this Group I winner was picked up cheaply and has now won over $400,000.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 5:02pm
Two of those Choisir SWs mentioned above are Luger & Psychologist, out of the Danzero mare Miss Conception.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Swynford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 8:18am
Second highest rated two year old in Europe

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 4:02pm
Are there any stats to say this duplication works or not ? Colts Or fillies
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 7:16pm
This discussion will help, in particular this post & haven't read further:

The report on inbreeding to Danehill (foaled in 1986) reads like this.

Sex

Named
Foals

Rnrs

Runs

Wnrs

Wnrs/
Rnrs

Wins

GW

G1W

SW

 

 

Colts

1287

882

10370

427

48.4%

1066

4

2

14

 

 

Fillies

1238

795

7754

324

40.8%

730

12

1

23

 

 

Total

2525

1677

18124

751

44.8%

1796

16

3

37

 

 

Danehill as a stallion SW to runners = 16.7%

Danehill inbreeding -SW to named foals= 1.4%

Danehill inbreeding -SW to runners = 2.2%

Savabeel (leading NZ sire) SW to runners= 9.4%

Street Cry (leading Aus sire) SW to runners= 8.0%

My theory on nicks is that a certain type of stallion ( horse size and shape, speed, balance, lung capacity, ability) compliment a certain type of mare (horse size and shape, speed, balance, lung capacity, ability). 

Breed an athlete.



http://racecafe.co.nz/forums/index.php?/topic/49785-inbreeding-to-danehill/
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 7:20pm
And this from our own Swynford, shows there's much more too it than simply double Danehill!

http://championsbydesign.com.au/consultancy-services/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 8:38pm
It's way to early to say it works or it doesn't.

First we have to look at the grandsons 

Stratum has stakes winners Southern Lord and Battle Hero

Choisir has The Mission and Psychologist

Sebring has Scratchy Bottom, Kiss a Rose, Broadband, Ulmann, Seannie

Not a Single Doubt has Selenia, Single Bullet, Gunnison

Snitzel has Sweet Redemption

Smart Missile  has Debellatio

Star Witness has Mella Maria G2 in South Africa and Pearl Star

Teofilo has Brazuca G2 in South Africa, Paene Magnus, Loritania etc.

Sepoy has the best with Alizee 

While Danehill's son Exceed and Excel had the great filly Guelph interestingly from the same female line as Sepoy sire of the other best on in Alizee.

Now is that close cross working because of some affinity of the female line to Danehill?  Or do we blame Danehill for the class.  There is no way of being sure.

The above figure of inbreeding to Danehil of 1.4% would be over many lines including ones where close inbreeding wouldn't work.  So we are only with the grandsons even getting to the third generation of for inbreeding so some of the above were very closely possibly 2 x 2.  Something which is obviously not working.  For every Guelph 2 x 3 to Danehill you will get 100 that wouldn't work.  3 x 3 is more reasonable. 4 x 4 is better.


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