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Inbreeding to Danehill

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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 3:29pm
If I was looking at sending a mare to Snitzel, part of the equation would be finding one with Grey Sovereign on the mares male line lower in the pedigree.

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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 2:30pm
Winner of the Group Three Widden Stakes at Flemington today

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 3:05pm
That was a hard run she had Swynford.  Thought for sure she collapse.  Maybe the others aren't worth much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 3:12pm
Lot of strength down the bottom furious, Hermes, Sabaean, Blue Peter. just thinking out loud .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 3:26pm
Yep but only a little thing and had to be hunted early.  Usually that ends them off and she fought on particularly well so wonder about what she beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 3:30pm
It's probably worth mentioning that Patronella has also produced two stakes-winners to Geiger Counter where there's no Danehill or Grey Sovereign.
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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:25pm
Patronella is also the dam of Aliyana Tide, a full sister to Teaspoon.    Correct me if I am wrong but considering Snitzel leaves a Group winner once in every 23 runners then the mare definitely has something he likes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:33pm
Could account for Teaspoon running on.  Aliyana Tide could go over a distance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by .Swynford. .Swynford. wrote:

Patronella is also the dam of Aliyana Tide, a full sister to Teaspoon.    Correct me if I am wrong but considering Snitzel leaves a Group winner once in every 23 runners then the mare definitely has something he likes.

Ability to produce you'd think, now that she's produced four stakes-winners from two such diverse stallions.

Interestingly Smytzer's Twist has also produced a stakes-winner by Redoute's Choice, so that makes three with Redoute's in the immediate sire line
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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 5:01pm
I agree furious . 

 Its just a hunch I have that Snitzel (or more to the point Snippets ) might like mares with Grey Sovereign on their male line.  Hinchinbrook may also.  

This horse below by a different stallion but another with the pattern and one of the best from his sire Came off just a $500 service fee at the time.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 5:09pm
Well nothing wrong with Grey Sovereign/Star Kingdom cross which you get in both Redoute's and Snitzel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 6:55pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 7:29pm
Thats the Lady Chester female line Swyford.  Still firing strong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ianb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 8:57pm
I bred a winner today at the Gold Coast in Son of Justice
Court Command (Commands, Danehill). Out of Come to Thee x Lion Hunter (Danehill)
current stable...Giuliani.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 9:00pm
Well done Ianb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 8:11am
Good stuff Ian , do you still breed your own ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 10:22am
Congrats Ian. always great when you have bred them
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 10:55am
Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 5:51pm
congrats Ian......  pedigree of Son Of Justice

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 5:57pm
Pedigree of Karaka Million winner

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ianb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 7:08pm
Yeah I try .....it's a hard expensive game, but we turn up each and every year trying to breed more winners.

We retired Come to Thee last year and gave her to a neighbour to be a grass eater, she has a Mahisara filly that is a fairly immature horse, which is a lot different from most of his stock.
I borrowed a Danzero mare and have a filly out of her, I was given a NASD filly that didn't cycle last year and have decided to keep her for another year, her half by I am Invincible made $220,000 at Magics and I have another Court Command mare Darth Traya that will breed this season. We brought a well bred Haradasun filly that also decided to be barren, so will front up again and finance the vets world travels (hahaha) Plus old DiamondsnPearls, she has the best yearling I have ever bred selling at QTIS sale and a colt foal at foot that is spectacular.
current stable...Giuliani.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 5:03am

Six x Six Enhanced Pedigree Grid for

PATEENA ARENA (AUS) 2014 Bay filly
by Needs Further - Gehenna, by Ladoni

 


NEEDS FURTHER (AUS)
B. 2007
GW 3 wins
f:22 r:6 w:2 SW:1
Encosta de Lago
B. 1993
GW 3 wins
f:1900 r:1610 w:1135 SW:112
Fairy King
B. 1982
NP
f:799 r:590 w:400 SW:73
1Northern DancerNearcticNearco4
Lady Angela14
NatalmaNative Dancer5
Almahmoud2
3Fairy BridgeBold ReasonHail To Reason4
Lalun19
SpecialForli3
Thong5
Shoal Creek
Ch. 1988
Wnr 2 wins
f:5 r:4 w:2 SW:1
Star WayStar AppealAppiani4
Sterna5
New WayKlairon1
New Move6
RollsMr. ProspectorRaise A Native8
Gold Digger13
Grand LuxeSir Ivor8
Fanfreluche4
Crowned Glory
B. 1997
GW 2 wins
f:8 r:7 w:7 SW:2
Danehill
B. 1986
GW 4 wins
f:2414 r:2082 w:1630 SW:347
Danzig1Northern DancerNearctic14
Natalma2
Pas de NomAdmiral's Voyage4
Petitioner7
Razyana5His MajestyRibot4
Flower Bowl4
1Spring AdieuBuckpasser1
Natalma2
Significant Moment
B. 1990
Pld
f:10 r:9 w:6 SW:1
BletchinglyBiscayStar Kingdom1
Magic Symbol2
CoogeeRelic8
Last Judgement7
Lady Giselle3Nureyev1Northern Dancer2
Special5
ValdernaVal de Loir5
Derna16
GEHENNA (AUS)
B. 2000
SW 5 wins
f:8 r:8 w:6 SW:1
Ladoni
B. 1992
GW 6 wins
f:425 r:354 w:197 SW:7
Danehill
B. 1986
GW 4 wins
f:2414 r:2082 w:1630 SW:347
Danzig1Northern DancerNearctic14
Natalma2
Pas de NomAdmiral's Voyage4
Petitioner7
Razyana5His MajestyRibot4
Flower Bowl4
1Spring AdieuBuckpasser1
Natalma2
Lilac Charm
B. 1980
Wnr 1 win
f:7 r:7 w:7 SW:3
BustinoBustedCrepello16
Sans le Sou2
Ship YardDoutelle2
Paving Stone1
Rose DubarryKlaironClarion1
Kalmia1
PristinaPetition16
Tina9
Speedmaster
B. 1990
NP
f:11 r:11 w:7 SW:1
Whiskey Road
B. 1972
Wnr 1 win
f:506 r:422 w:299 SW:26
Nijinsky1Northern DancerNearctic14
Natalma2
Flaming PageBull Page4
Flaring Top8
5Bowl Of FlowersSailorEight Thirty11
Flota22
Flower BowlAlibhai6
Flower Bed4
Call Me Biddy
Ch. 1983
SW 6 wins
f:5 r:5 w:3
Copper KingdomNijinsky1Northern Dancer2
Flaming Page8
Peace MovementAdmiral's Voyage4
Deep Blue Sea7
Call Me PollyFree StyleDemocratic3
Easel1
Just PollyBallywit14
Proposal5

Danehill (USA) 1986 : 3f x 3m
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 5:04am
Stakes winner - Danehill 3f x 3m
Star - trialling tuesday,Rebel - racing in 3 or 4 weeks, Attie - spelling, Lionel - first prep, Brandy - spelling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 9:26am
Article on Danehill inbreeding on breednet today if someone can share,Danehill dups has 2% stakes winners to runners based on their info today .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 9:43am
What was Star Kingdoms final tally for inbreeding to himself ?

As with Star Kingdom there is a lot of dross that distorts these types of figures.



Stakes Double for Double Danehill
Tara Madgwick - Thursday, 23 February 2017
Love it or hate it, we are seeing more and more of horses carrying a double cross of Danehill and two of them have won stakes races in the past week.

Ducimus - Grant Courtney

Ducimus - Grant Courtney

$700,000 Inglis Premier sale-topper Ducimus (2c Snitzel x Beauty World, by Danehill Dancer) opened his stakes account with a good win in the Listed VRC Talindert Stakes last Saturday and carries a close up 3 x 3 double cross.

Star Tasmanian juvenile Pateena Arena (2f Needs Further x Gehenna, by Ladoni) won her second stakes race when taking the Listed Gold Sovereign Stakes at Launbceston on Wednesday and is also 3 x 3 to Danehill. (Read about her win here

The current statistics for the double cross within five generations according to Arion are 46.4% winners to runners – 1165 winners from 2513 runners.

51 stakes-winners are bred this way headed by Group I winners Guelph, Southern Lord and the Northern Hemisphere bred Astaire.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 11:22am
46% winners to runners and 2.5% stakes winners to runners is hardly a ringing endorsement
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 11:28am
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

46% winners to runners and 2.5% stakes winners to runners is hardly a ringing endorsement

You would need to cut through the dross and look how often this kind of breeding is through quality stock.

As I asked, I wonder what Star Kingdoms percentages were for similar inbreeding ?




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 12:14pm
I think you will find that the 2 x 2 duplications or closer were not a success yet the results appear to be a bit more consistent when spun out to generation three.
 
 
“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
― V.C. King
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 12:21pm
As Flight says with most things wait and be patient.  After three or four generations give it a go.  But the figures all have bad pedigrees and good pedigrees involved.  If the female line didn't respond well to Danehill blood in the first place a second cross probably wont help either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sworn Revenge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by Flight Flight wrote:


I think you will find that the 2 x 2 duplications or closer were not a success yet the results appear to be a bit more consistent when spun out to generation three.
 
 


Hope so Flight. I'm involved in a Reset mare ( Referendum ) that is in foal to Needs Further and we have Danehill 3 X 3 but sex balanced on the female side.

The stallion is doing a great job in my opinion at these early days.
It's only called gambling when you lose
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