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Hypocrisy at its finest

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shadow View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 8:54pm
let me first state, that i wanted  Hayne + Keating to get off , so that way if PAR lose in the grand final , there can be no excuses about not having a full strength side.

And i want to see both sides at full strength for the best game possible.

Now , for the criticisms.

if Billy Slater had done what Hayne did , and if Cam Smith did what Keating did , what would the press have said.......?  they'd have been crucified.

How does Bryce Gibbs of the WTI feel , copping 3 weeks for a knee to Luke Burt's ass , that Burt was able to get up from , compared to Hayne concussing a bloke kneeing him in the head, accidental or not ?
i don't know about anyone else, but i'd rather a knee to the ass , than a knee to the head.

if some no name players did what Hayne and Keating did on Friday,  in a round 3 game of no real consequence , they'd have have gotten min 2 weeks.

Phil Gould cries about "what was Hayne supposed to do ?"

Here's my stance.

El Masri was faced with a similar scernario when Burt scored his try , but he chose to dive head first , using his arms and shoulders to try & stop Burt ( the correct and legal way)

The result , Burt still scored , but he was able to get up uninjured and continue on.

there are only 2 ways for a fullback to make a tackle when presented with a try saving tackle opportunity, head first ( the legal way) or feet first ( the illegal way , that risks your opponent getting injured)

What Hayne did was the cowards way out.....

not only does it reduce the chance of injury for Hayne leading with his knees,...it increases the risk of injury for Goodwin ......if Hayne opted to go head first , he risks injuring himself , but it would be the legal way.

don't give me this garbage , , that it was spur of the moment...Hayne knew exactly what it meant by leading with his legs...


this is such a rotten precedent by the NRL .....


i hope PAR get what they deserve for this hypocrisy by the NRL .....bending over backwards to extend every courtesy to Hayne and PAR.

i'm also expecting MEL to appreciate the irony of this decision , especially in light of Smith's suspension last year , banning him from the grand final vs Manly for an incident far less dangerous .

One year , the NRL says "foul and illegal play will not be tolerated , no matter who you are,....we will rub you out of a grand final"...and they did.

the following year , 2 incidents that look worse to the naked eye, that actually caused physical injury to the opponents, the judiciary offers up 2 token 1 week bans that are basically a "get out of jail free" card.

bravo NRL judiciary, bravo....

that's the way to win people over..... consistency like that.

i watch a lot of sport, local and abroad,...and i don't think there is a sport  that smells more rotten to me than the NRL ( and believe me , there are some rotten things in US sports officiating) 
on the whole though ,  across the spectrum,...in regards to video ref decisions , general decisions during the game ,..and topped off by a horrid juduicary system that is clearly not impartial ,..and does not offer justice for all....the NRL has turned me off the sport with the awful way the game is run and officiated.

i refuse to wager on NRL  games any more because their is no level trust there any more,..and i have started watching less and less....

i expect a basic minimum level of competence, which the NRL doesn't have anymore.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 8:58pm
AFL a few years ago ,Barry Hall got off to allow him to play in grand final.Was definitely guilty but AFL bosses wanted him to play to enhance the game's popularity in NSW.Swans won the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 9:00pm
To be fair Cameron Smith could have escaped a suspension too had he not had carry over penanlties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeepinitReal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 9:16pm
Feel better? Smith was suspended because he was a serial offender!!
 
Burt was carrying the ball into the in goal, Goodwin chasing a kick..Totally different circumstances......Ditto when Gibbs was outed...
 
I gather your a Mexican? suggest you research topics before flying off the handle with ill informed garbage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 9:56pm
agree totally shadow.

goodwin had grounded the ball before hayne had started to drop hi sknees. plenty of time to jump over him (which happens every week). the issue is hayne. he is a sook and ego maniac.

ohh I hope he is under a bomb like Stewart 2 years ago........

I am still shaking my head that the hooker got 1 week for partially dislocating Hennant shoulder.

two terrible decions.

the third intersting thing was convening a review on Sunday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 10:16pm
actually, i don't care for either side....

i look at NRL purely from a punting perspective....

the fact that both Gibbs and Hayne's actions both warranted an 8pt try decision means they were very much in the same category.
Because we all know how often they hand out 8 pt tries,......

8 pt tries indicate a level of seriousness beyond the normal indiscretions

how many have there been this year ?

C Smith had previous pts loading , and Hayne did not...that cannot be the only deciding factor.....
Smith didn't deserve to miss out on a grand final for his indiscretion last year, but did anyway....even though Thaiday wasn't injured...
Hayne's was a worse incident, where a player was concussed...

was Gibbs a  serial offender ?..i don't recall....

What additional research do you recommend , so that i can inform myself better....

perhaps a biomechanical expert can use stick figures to try and explain how Hayne wasn't  endangering Goodwin's head...he was actually trying to protect  his head , by pulling his kness back...

as far as i'm concerned...once you decide to lead with the legs..you know you're treading on dangerous ground...

i just like things to be fair....
and i don't care how ill informed you think i am...you cannot convince me that anybody on earth would rather receive Hayne's knee to the head , than Gibbs' knee to the ass.

what if Hayne does the exact same thing again in round 6 next year, and a player is concussed in identical fashion...what then ?

i suppose you'll be leading the chorus to have him rubbed out for 6 weeks + , because he's now a serial offender....?

yes, the ball was still on the ground and not in Goodwin's hands, when Hayne started his move to the corner,..but what about after BG  gained control ?
 what did Hayne think would happen after sliding in ? My bet is , he didn't...that's careless , or even reckless...sliding in with your kness, to an area where you know an opponents head is going to be.
Even if Goodwin dropped the ball , and didn't score , Hayne would have probably been penalised for leading with the knees...

would you think any different if Goodwin's neck had been broken , or had to be stretchered off ? How injured would Goodwin have needed to be , in order for Hayne to get a grade 2 or worse.
Not to mention any lingering after effects that Goodwin may have suffered later in the game ...

Where was Hayne supposed to put his knees after sliding in ?
Where was Goodwin supposed to put his head ? It can't just magically disappear....

there was only 1 possible outcome ...KNEE on SKULL contact.

the onus is on the defender to NOT  put another players head at risk....careless or reckless...a players head was still hit with a knee.

many years ago i used to support PAR , but Brian Smith really rubbed me the wrong  way , and i grew to hate PAR when he was their coach.
 i loved the 2001 Grand final where NCL smashed PAR

now that B Smith is no longer there, i am back to being indifferent

if you actually look at the replays , you'll see that had Hayne dived head and arms first , he'd have actually covered more ground and gone closer to stopping the try.
Going knees first, his torso is more upright, and he covers less ground,....but diving head first,..his body woulda been horizontal and reached further.....
But by doing this , he knew he may hurt himself, ...why risk hurting  yourself and the other player , when there's an easier option.

attacking the head of an opponent is what the NRL is trying to eliminate,..whether it's a head high tackle, spear tackle or a knee..and they have shown a willingness to punish players for these acts.


you sound suspiciously like a PAR supporter.

i generally know when i am talking to an impartial and fair person,..and you don't seem  fit that category ...  calling my opinion "garbage" means you think all of it belongs in the bin...that there is no credibility to anything i have said.... you're a fine judge...

prior to this judiciary decision i didn't care who won, but after the decision, i am gunning for MEL to rip PAR apart, just so all the rabid PAR supporters with rose coloured glasses ( who think Hayne did nothing wrong)  can be happy with a runners up medal.

Just answer me 1 question really honestly....

do you think Hayne gets a grade 1 charge ( based on B Gibbs' precedent ) , if this happened in the PAR v CBY game on Sat July 26th , instead of the grand final qualifier on Sept 25 ?

that's my whole  argument


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 10:23pm
8 point tries are given for a penalty during the act of scoring regardless of how serious the incident.
for the record, i dont think hayne should have been suspended but if he does it again he should (and will). Smith was suspended for repeat offences which is the reason they have carry over points. i dont think the tackle on hennant should have even been a penalty, if you are dropping off a tackle you hold on to anything you can.
Anyway, it will be a good game and im glad that both sides get to put their best teams on the paddock (close enough anyway).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 10:28pm
now for my simple game analysis ...

PAR have won close games lately , relying on crucial turning points , and passes sticking.....with razzle dazzle offloads and 2nd phase play..

MELB have won comfortably , not having to rely on lucky passes sticking , but more so skilful  well executed set plays,  and continual wave after wave of defensive + offensive pressure.

hmmm,....which way do i think this will go ?

in some peculiar way , ...Hayne and Keating both being in i think actually steels MELB's resolve even further ( as if they needed more incentive after last year)

PAR aren't without a hope.... they have been the form team......and i don't want to rain on anyone's parade , who may have taken the Eels at $100 ..but the lead up to last weekend's game vs CBY was like that of a Grand Final...and now they do it again....against a much better offensive/defensive side....with far more speed than CBY ..

that kind of intensity is going to be very hard to duplicate against a side that lost a grand final 40-0 last year

my equation = MEL win

but my NRL judgement has been pretty poor this year,..so PAR fans...get in the queue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeepinitReal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 10:28pm
Shadow,
 
Geez ur posts are hard to read. yes, naturally a Parra supporter.
 
with respect to 8 point Try's 3 in total I think this year..
 
1) Thurston SOO when he uses the boot.. Charge Grade 1 - cleared to play that weekend.
2) Gibbs - Not only knees but late into try scorer who ran into in goal. Charge Grade 2 - 3 weeks.
3) hayne - kicked ball. Charge Grade 1 - cleared to play.
 
Yes charge would have been the same! Would it be for a different player, that may be another discussion.
 
Was at both the last two games.
 
Cam Smith was only charged with a Grade 1 last year, which was in line with previous offences throughout the year, he had a similar charge from the very same year hanging over his head, he challenged the decision and judiciary only had the choice to exonerate the charge i.e he did not commit the act or status quo (they could not downgrade).
 
I agree with your comment re head first, I also believe no real malice was evident in his approach, he does try to put his knees in best possible situation when contact was unavoidable. (could he have pulled out? Not in a PF).
 
Garbage is harsh, I retract that comment, stand by ill informed though.
 
NRL released all charges relating to this type of incident yesterday and it is clear that they ahve been conistent. www.nrl.com
 
Smith era is dead, Fitzgerald era is dead..Come back into the fold, they are playing superb football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeepinitReal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2009 at 10:34pm
With respect to your game analysis, Storm have not had any pressure for 5 weeks.
 
Manly were severely impacted by tragedy surrounding Glen Hall's & his family, Broncos were crucified without a half back. They have had a week off and prior beat Warriors in NZ in a nothing game & the Roosters..
 
They will understand pressure this Sunday & I hope they are underdone.
 
Should be a cracking game and if atmosphere is anywhere near last Fridays night then it will be a very memorable GF.
 
Good luck to both teams, may it be won by individual brilliance rather than by the officials.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maximillions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 2:23am
.....Two Words baby....Billy Slater
Forget the odds.....You are Unstoppable !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 3:44am
Definitely Maxi.  Truly brilliant
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote questions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 4:40am
if you think hayne deserved a grade 2 you are wrong. the only point is at the time hayne was heading to get the ball it was a contested ball. both players had rights to attack the ball. hayne made sure his studs where hidden from the player and accidently hit him with his knees. yes it was careless and threfore he collected a grade one and got 100 points.

exactly the same amount of points that cameron smith recieved last year. exactly. the only difference was that smith had a 50% loading for being a repeat offender and had carryover points. dont blame the system when you keep offending
"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 5:59am
Melbourne are fit with no niggling injuries , they will run riot in the 2nd half .

I don't think Parramatta can produce another big game .... Hayne started to make mistakes last week .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 6:01am
accidentally hit him with his knees............? really ?

boy, some people look , but they don't see.

what other outcome was there, once Hayne started sliding in towards the area where Goodwin's head was ?

he could have jumped over him if he really wanted ,...

i'd say grade 1  if he slid into Goodwin's ass, like Gibbs did, ...the ass doesn't house any valuable organs within it,...and has some cushioning,...the skull doesn't

any illegal contact with the knees that connects with a player from the neck down, i'd say is grade 1 , with increasing severity the more obvious and deliberate it looks

any knee into head incident, grade 2 or even grade 3 , no matter who .....especially with a resultant concussion, irrespective of whether it's in the act of scoring a try , or in general play when a tackle is made.

first offence or not, a knee to the head must be accompanied with a 1 game suspension , minimum....especially when there was another option available to Hayne,..diving in head first himself.

worse still, the image of Goodwin lying prone on the turf immediately after it...but i suppose he was milking it for the extra shot at goal

"accidentally" is automatically eliminated from the equation once Hayne decided to slide legs first.

Once he goes feet first, Goodwin was immediately in danger of being injured no matter how much Hayne tries to evade him and turn his knees....i mean,... the Hayne sympathizers are saying Hayne didn't go through with it, that he turned his knees away and didn't drop them....and look at what happened.....Goodwin still got smashed and concussed.....
imagine if Hayne did drop the knees fully ?

he had a split second choice ( like many many decisions in a game)..and Hayne , the player that makes time stand still ,   "accidentally"  chose to slide legs first.........

the knee is the hardest bone in the body to be hit with ,..the weight of the torso  is imparted onto the area the knee hits.........

you can't sell me on it.

what if Hayne was the player on the receiving end , and Goodwin was the one who did the kneeing ?
i'm sure the PAR supporters would be screaming for a grade 1 for Goodwin..saying he must not be suspended.

the ideal decision where the NRL could have saved face would have been to charge Hayne with a grade 2 , make him go to the judiciary and fight it ( with their minds already made up to downgrade the charge) ,..and then exonerate him. That way the illusion of being soft on the "NRL poster boy" would have been diminished somewhat...

the way the NRL did handle it,  leaves an aroma of something  rotten and  the impression of favouritsm and inconsistency.


You'll see how forgiving CBY are to Hayne the first timethey meet next year.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote questions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 7:08am
he accidentallly made contact with the head, you can see him lifting his kness up to try and avoid the head but accidentally mad contact, he purposely made sure his feet where tucked under his body as not to lead in with his studs and casue problems. he did not go feet first, he tucked his feet under

completely different to gibbs, burt was putting the ball down, he had control of the ball and placed it down to score a try. goodwin had control for a half a second and until then the ball was in play.

no favouritism and the system is designed to show that. you cannot have a automatic suspension in a points system. he could not of jumped over him at full speed.

and like i said before, exactly the same number of points that cameron smith collected last year

this system says nothing
"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeepinitReal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 4:05pm
Shadow,
 
Goodwin was so pissed that he was willing to give evidence on Hayne's behalf if requiredErmm.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by questions questions wrote:

he accidentallly made contact with the head, you can see him lifting his kness up to try and avoid the head but accidentally mad contact, he purposely made sure his feet where tucked under his body as not to lead in with his studs and casue problems. he did not go feet first, he tucked his feet under

completely different to gibbs, burt was putting the ball down, he had control of the ball and placed it down to score a try. goodwin had control for a half a second and until then the ball was in play.

no favouritism and the system is designed to show that. you cannot have a automatic suspension in a points system. he could not of jumped over him at full speed.

and like i said before, exactly the same number of points that cameron smith collected last year

this system says nothing


yes he could. he chose not to and led with his knees and knocked a bloke out. at best it was extremely careless and at worst reckless / dangerous.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maximillions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 2:56am
Your Right Kong, Any top level sports person at their peak can make a decision that looks "accidental" to normal viewers..... In my prime baby I could place (Crack) a hockey ball onto an opponents foot,... most times they were carried from the field   ....and guess what..I'd get the free hit....It's in the Game baby, just how it is
Forget the odds.....You are Unstoppable !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 3:34am
Don't know much about the gradings in NRL, however if that was a Grade 1 I'd hate to see a Grade 3.  The latter presumably involves deliberate intent and extreme damage.
 
Would've thought what we're talking about here, forgetting for a moment the opinions from the Parra supporters in the Bar, is what we actually saw: late and deliberate intent.
 
Similar to the (second) eye-gouge by Judd in the AFL.  Was never going to attract an appropriate penalty.
 
 
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 5:45am
i definately think Hayne was tried by the media not the judiciary, however that being said, i don't believe anyone should miss out on a grandfinal for anything accidental.
 
maybe they need to look at doubling the points required to miss games for grand finals, but double the penalty points in grand finals. that way Hayne could have gotten charged with a grade 2 or 3, downgraded with good record and early plea to 190 points, and gets to play in grand final. that would have also worked for smith who missed out last year thanks to a ridiculous ruling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maximillions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2009 at 3:26am
Originally posted by Maximillions Maximillions wrote:

.....Two Words baby....Billy Slater





YEAH BABY
Forget the odds.....You are Unstoppable !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2009 at 5:48am
justice served cold for PAR ....i know it's usually "revenge is a dish best served cold" , but , we're talking semantics here

MEL were the better side for 70mins, and almost threw it away late.

  Through the same kind of good fortune (not skill) that PAR have been blessed with for the last 3 weeks, they get a lucky break with that penalty from that line dropout, and scored soon after, making it 22 - 12 with 10 mins to go, .....when just as easily,  MELB could have gotten a penalty if the ball didn't go 10m ( had Neilson let PAR get the ball first) , and put the game away

i actually laughed at full time at the irony (that i'm sure most PAR fans won't appreciate) , that a dodgy penalty to MEL for that Slater knock on , was the incident that will leave a foul  taste in PAR supporters mouths....but no PAR fan can say they deserved to win that game....sure they'd have taken the win .

and Paul Osborne was an idiot for coming out in the press calling MELB "grubby" and "not playing in the spirit of the game" ..........Hayne knees a bloke , Keating chicken wings a guy .....very smart

..but MELB deserved a lucky break after some of the rubbish decisions they've gotten in recent years...that BRS v MEL grand final was a game where the 50-50 decisions went 5-0 in favour of BRS...

one thing PAR fans can absorb ....it all evens out out in the end.

you got very  very lucky last week just to have Hayne + Keating playing...
now , at least MEL can savour a grand final win against a full strength PAR , and know they did it against a side that had no excuse.

MELB earned most of their wins in the semi's , and the grand final through skilful play...

PARR were also skilful in parts, but had to rely on too many trickshots over the last 3-4 weeks  , and eventually , their luck had to run out.

their grand final was last week.

Had PARR  played Gold Coast or an out of Sydney team last week , with less hype and build up than that PARR / CBY  game got , they may have been better served today ...but they had to effectively get up for their 2nd grand final in 2 weeks....

better to rely on skill than luck.


the right result happened in the end...........

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