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How “Super Trainers” Have Come to Dominate Rac

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    Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 6:22pm
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How “Super Trainers” Have Come to Dominate the Sport


By Bill Finley

Wayne Lukas didn’t think like other Thoroughbred trainers. Maybe that was because he came from different sports (basketball and Quarter Horse racing), maybe it was because he never wanted to be just another average trainer, maybe it was because he was a visionary. Probably, it’s all of the above.

Lukas set up his Thoroughbred stable in Southern California in 1977 and by 1978, he had already established one of the top barns on the circuit. He won four stakes races that year and produced his first superstar, Terlingua. He was well on his way to becoming one of the dominant trainers in California.

For Lukas, that wasn’t good enough.

He saw the best trainers in California–Charlie Whittingham, Laz Barrera, Bob Wheeler, Ron McAnally–and wondered why they were content to have 25-30 horses, all of them stabled at the same place, which limited the earning power of the stable and the opportunity for the horses.

“Racing is tradition-bound,” Lukas said. “It’s very hard for anybody in racing to accept change of any kind. I thought that most of the people that I had encountered and were rubbing elbows with were not visionaries in a lot of areas.”

Back when Lukas started in Thoroughbred racing, a trainer was normally limited to about 40 stalls at a racetrack, which meant he or she could only have so many horses, unless they wanted to be at more than one track. Most were content to stay in one place, and since there was no horse-shortage problem, racing secretaries weren’t inclined to gave a large outfit extra stalls. You also didn’t have the many training centers that now exist which give trainers additional places to stable, like Palm Meadows in Florida and portions of the Saratoga backstretch that are now open in all but the winter months.

Lukas saw none of that as an impediment, so he planted a seed. He would not limit his operation to just California, and by stabling at several racetracks would expand his numbers. It was something a few claiming trainers, most notably Jack Van Berg, had done before, but no one had ever tried something like this with the type of high-quality horses that Lukas had. The seed took root and turned into an operation unlike anything racing had ever seen. He had divisions in California, New York, Florida and New Jersey. If he had cheaper horses that couldn’t make it a top-tier track, he’d find a place for them, like at Ak-Sar-Ben or at the Northern California tracks. He moved horses back and forth across the country like he was playing a game of chess, and he always seemed to be one move ahead of his opponent.

In 1987, his operation now spread across the country, Lukas won 53 graded stakes races at 13 different racetracks. The traditionalists were not happy. Jealousy was a byproduct of his success.

“I couldn’t have cared less what people thought,” he said. “I thought the Thoroughbred business was stagnant and I was cocky, brash, arrogant and ambitious.”

All that mattered to Lukas was that he was winning races and his clients were happy.

“Every horse that we purchased or who came into our care ended up being somewhat productive, making a mark somewhere in the industry,” he said. “That’s because we were able to move them around to find a spot where they fit and they could win. A lot of records fell into place and a lot of things we couldn’t have achieved otherwise, we did. It was very common for us on any given weekend to win six or seven stakes races.”

There was a time when a single trainer winning six or seven stakes on a weekend was unheard of. Not anymore. Lukas provided the blueprint for the mega-stable and proved that it could be done. It was inevitable that others, including some of his former assistants, would copy his methodology. Do it right and you can make a lot of money and train some of the best horses in the county.

At age 82, Lukas’s operation looks nothing like it did in the eighties. He currently has 38 horses under his care and has only one division: Oaklawn in the winter, Kentucky the rest of the year. But he has been replaced by seven or eight trainers who have not only equaled what he has done, but with some, taken it to another level. Lukas said he never had more than 150 horses. At the height of the 2018 season, Chad Brown–the two-time reigning Eclipse Award Outstanding Trainer–will have 220 horses under his care.

We now have a name for the Chad Browns, Todd Pletchers, Steve Asmussens, Bob Bafferts and the rest: “Super Trainers.”

What is a super trainer? There’s no precise definition, but it’s more or less this: a trainer who has a huge stable, is based at more than one racetrack and wins a ton of major races.

Lukas started the super-trainer concept, but it didn’t take root overnight. Probably the next super trainer was his former assistant Todd Pletcher. He was confident he could do what Lukas had done. In 2004, Pletcher won 239 races overall, including 43 graded stakes.

“Wayne had so many strengths and one of them is organizational,” Pletcher said. “That’s one of the main things I learned from him. It was his attention to detail, his ability to set up an organization and make it run smoothly. With our own barn, we took a lot of things from that.”

Pletcher is the prototypical super trainer of the modern era. He has about 160 horses spread among three locations and every year restocks his barn with some of the best-bred, most expensive horses that go through the sales ring. Like Lukas during his heyday, he is capable of winning multiple stakes races across the country on any weekend.

But he is not alone and, in fact, in many categories, has been eclipsed by rival Chad Brown. Super trainers have never been more in vogue or more dominant.

“It seems like every big owner only knows the phone number of four of five trainers,” said Midwestern-based trainer Dan Peitz, whose stable houses 16 horses.

In 2017, there were 107 Grade I races run in the U.S. Thirty of them–28%–were won by two trainers. Brown won 16 and Bob Baffert won 14. Throw in Mark Casse (6), Jerry Hollendorfer (5), Pletcher (4) and Steve Asmussen (4) and seven trainers won 45.8% of all Grade I races last year.

In this year’s 10-horse GI Belmont Stakes, five were trained by Hall of Famers (Lukas, Bill Mott, Steve Asmussen and two from the Baffert barn). Three more were trained by certain future Hall of Famers (Chad Brown and two from Pletcher). The remaining two were trained by Doug O’Neill and Dale Romans, potential Hall of Famers.

It’s the proverbial snowball effect. A group of hyper-competitive, driven trainers have all emerged at about the same time, some of whom have started with only a handful of horses. While success on the track has always translated to more owners and more horses, this phenomenon is something different. It’s almost as if once Lukas shattered racing’s stereotypes about how many horses a trainer could have and still be successful and manage each one effectively, there was no going back.

They start winning. Clients see that they are winning. They give them more horses and better horses. Other owners take their horses away from trainers whose numbers are less than spectacular and give them to the larger stables. The trainer’s stable grows some more, it wins more races and that attracts even more owners and better horses. Owners, naturally, want to hire the best talent available. The result is that seven or eight trainers seem to train 80% of the best horses in the sport.

“People hire these guys because they do a great job,” said Jerry Crawford, who heads the Donegal Racing partnership and uses, among others, Mott, Pletcher and Baffert. “Winning Grade Is is hard no matter what. The reason why winning at the highest level in horse racing is so special is because it’s incredibly hard to do. When you work with these marquee trainers, if you give them a horse that is good enough, the odds are great that they will get the best possible out of that horse.”

No one personifies the super-trainer phenomenon more than Brown. A former assistant to Hall of Famers Bobby Frankel and Shug McGaughey and an Ivy League graduate (Cornell), he went out on his own in 2007 at the age of 28. He was guaranteed nothing.

He started with 10 horses, but it wasn’t the numbers or quality in his barn that began arguably the fastest rise to the top in racing history. Brown is smart, organized, works tirelessly at his craft, understands the importance of hiring only the very best to work under him and absolutely hates to lose. It’s a recipe for success.

“I am a challenge-oriented person and I have been that way since I was a kid,” Brown said. “I feel like I need to be doing something with my life that is challenging and I find that this profession is both challenging and rewarding. Our team is faced with challenges every day and that drives us to always try to get better.”

In his first full year, 2008, he won 31 races and had a major breakthrough when he won the GI Breeders’ Cup Juvenile Fillies Turf with Maram (Sahm). That’s the type of win that gets you noticed. Brown’s victory total increased every year, and in 2014, he won 147 races, 17 graded stakes and three Breeders’ Cup races. In 2017, he won 213 races, including 47 graded stakes. For his career, he is winning at a 25% clip.

He is so much in demand that other super trainers are losing their horses to him. The owner of Instilled Regard (Arch), a $1.05 million 2-year-old purchase, who was fourth in the GI Kentucky Derby, recently took the horse away from Jerry Hollendorfer and turned him over to Brown.

He apologizes for nothing.

“I am doing a service to the industry by taking certain clients that I have had and doubling and tripling or even quadrupling the amount of horses they own since they first hired me,” he said. “That’s because they have had success with us. These are people who, if they were in another barn and weren’t doing as well, might not be in the game any longer. Be careful throwing too many arrows at the larger, successful stables that are cultivating owners, increasing the amount of dollars spent and the overall commerce in the sport. That trickles down to the breeders, the racetrack owners and others.”

To be a super trainer, you must be like Brown, focused solely on your career and willing to forego any sort of normal life.

“There’s a price for this,” said Mark Casse, who trains about 125 horses. “We don’t have days off. Not even Christmas. It’s an all-day deal, an all-night deal. Myself, I thrive on that. I get bored easily.”

“I work really hard at this,” Baffert said. “I don’t take vacations and I don’t go anywhere. It’s a lot of hard work and effort and that’s why I’m rewarded with a lot of good horses.”

Most anyone would like to train the type of horses that Baffert has and make the kind of money that he does, but some trainers say it’s not worth the sacrifice.

“Those super trainer guys, the majority of them have white hair and they’re constantly on the telephone,” said Florida-based trainer Larry Bates. “I generally carry between 12 and 15 horses. I’m older than all those guys and my hair hasn’t turned white yet. I get to go fishing. I love what I’m doing and I’ve had one owner for 23 years and another for 15. It’s kind of like a family affair. I wish those guys with all those horses all the luck in the world and the composure they have is amazing, but I don’t envy them.”

But just as Bates wants to spend time fishing and is happy having a dozen horses, the super trainer wants to be involved with his stable 24/7 and can’t win enough races to satisfy their desire to be the very best there is. That may not be a life for everyone, but it works for them and they have the numbers to prove it. What they are selling is their highly successful record, and most top owners are no longer willing to settle for anything less.

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/how-super-trainers-have-come-to-dominate-the-sport/


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By Bill Finley

This is part II in a two-part series on “Super Trainers” dominating the game of racing. Click here to read part I.

Trainer Dan Peitz never had a particularly big stable, but he always seemed to get the most of what he had. He won the GI Test S. in 1996 with Capote Belle (Capote), one of six graded stakes she won during her career, and he won the GII Fair Grounds Oaks in 2001 with Real Cozzy (Cozzene). He wasn’t getting rich or on his way to the Hall of Fame, but he made a living, paid his bills and he loved what he was doing. In 2011, he made 130 starts, won 19 races and his stable earned $692,734.

Peitz now has just 16 horses and won eight races in 2017 with his stable earning $341,139. He last won a stakes race in 2015.

“It’s tough to make a living,” Petiz said. “I’m small now, a small trainer.”

Did Peitz lose his training skills? That’s not likely. Rather, he became something few owners want anymore–just another trainer. Like hundreds of others who fall somewhere in the middle of the training ranks, he cannot compete with the “Super Trainers,” the Chad Browns, Todd Pletchers, Bob Bafferts, Steve Asmussens, Mark Casses. They get all the top owners, which means they get all the top horses. There’s very little left over for someone like Peitz.

Peitz was hit particularly hard when the primary client he had relied on for most of his career, Robert and Lawana Low, who owned both Capote Belle and Real Cozzy, decided to make a change. They would still give Peitz some horses, but they wanted to get to the next level and figured the best trainer to take them there was Pletcher. The Lows paid $380,000 for Magnum Moon (Malibu Moon) at the 2016 Keeneland September sale and the horse went on to win the GII Rebel S. and the GI Arkansas Derby for Pletcher. They had never before given a top horse to anyone but Peitz.

Peitz is as good-natured as they come and realizes owners have become increasingly enamored with the training stars of the game. He watched the Rebel from Oaklawn’s Jockey Club with the Lows and rooted them on.

“I’ve been with them for something like 25 years, I’m still part of their team and I pull for them,” he said. “They told me they were going to spend some good money on yearlings and 2-year-olds and wanted to get to the Derby. They thought Todd was the best person to get them there.”

The trainer’s share of Magnum Moon’s wins in the two Oaklawn stakes was $114,000.

As for Peitz, he said, “I’m just going month to month trying to pay my bills.”

He also regularly got some horses from Shadwell Farm. He is getting fewer and fewer each year as they are focusing on Brown and Kiaran McLaughlin.

Can the sport afford to have the Dan Peitzes of the world go out of business? It cannot. There have to be middle-class trainers to fill the $12,500 claimers on a Thursday afternoon. Todd Pletcher just doesn’t run in those races.

That fact is one of the reasons many are alarmed by the growing power of the super trainers. Another criticism is that with so few trainers handing so many horses, it’s contributing to small fields. With the exception of stakes races, most tracks won’t let a trainer run more than two horses in a race. A super trainer might have five that fit the condition and three will have to sit the race out. If those three were with other, smaller barns, there would be three more horses in the race.

“There’s no question that super trainers are a problem,” said Tim Ritvo, the COO of the Stronach Group. “In California, 20% of the guys are winning 80% of the money. These are guys who are successful and have worked hard all their lives, so you don’t want to penalize them. America is all about free enterprise. But there needs to be more of a balance and if there’s not, we’re not going to have anyone left to run against these big guys.”

Chuck Simon is just the type of trainer a racing secretary relies on to fill middle and lower-level races. A former assistant to Allen Jerkens, he started 215 horses in 2004. In 2017, he made just 75 starts and won 10 races. He now has about 24 horses.

“I’m not looking for any sympathy, but it’s difficult,” he said. “I’m not just talking about myself. We talk. Trainers talk. Nobody wants to be known as the guy that is struggling or is broke.”

Simon said that many trainers are filling stalls by agreeing to train horses for free in return for a share of ownership. He says that’s no way to make a living.

“Empty stalls are the enemy,” he said. “You can’t make money with empty stalls. So a lot of people are willing to make deals. But these are mainly for failed horses.”

“These top trainers just do a very good job,” said Tom Bush, a New York regular who has about 25 horses. “They’re very organized and success begets success. And it’s snowballed. Most of the good horses are in just a few hands and that’s something that makes it difficult for the rest of us to compete. I will say this: I really enjoy it when I beat these guys.”

In order for trainers like Bush, Peitz and Simon to survive, they occasionally have to have a top horse come into their barn–one that can make enough money to make up for the ones who aren’t producing and earning. They’re just not getting them anymore.

There are many reasons field size and the number of races being run in the country are down, but many racing executives believe one factor is the super trainer. The theory is that with so many horses in the hands of so few trainers, horses get pushed into the background and aren’t given as many opportunities to run as they would have if they were in smaller barns.

“You have to question what the owners are thinking when they automatically go to these trainers,” NYRA Senior Vice President of Racing Martin Panza said in a March 16 interview in the TDN. “When you’re the tenth ‘one other than’ in that barn, you’re not going to run more than three or four times a year. You look at the larger trainers and that’s the case with most of these horses. That’s stupidity on the part of the owner. There are plenty of guys that can train and you can pick a smaller trainer, and when I say smaller that doesn’t mean he can’t train, it means he doesn’t have the same numbers. You give that horse to him and that horse might run eight or nine times a year instead of four.”

Not all owners prefer to go the super-trainer route. Though the Pletchers, Browns and Bafferts somehow seem to be able to communicate on a regular basis with their owners, with a smaller trainer, the owner is going to get much more attention and it’s likely that the horse will get plenty of hands-on care from the actual trainer. The super trainer who has divisions at numerous tracks is often relying on an assistant to do the day-to-day work.

Rodney Paden has owned horses for years, but only recently started to deal with higher-class horses. He sold his business and had the money to buy some expensive horses. He recently privately purchased a horse named Art Collection (Flat Out), who was trained by Chad Brown. He could have kept him with Brown, but instead sent him to Charles “Scooter” Dickey. At the 2017 Keeneland November Sale, he was advised by Dickey to buy One Go All Go (Fairbanks), who went for $62,000. The horse has since won the GII Elkhorn S. and finished third in the GI Man o’ War S.

“I’ve always known that Scooter knows what he’s doing,” Paden said. “He’s always been capable and in the early eighties he had some big-name horses. Scooter is very hands-on and he’s there every morning at four. Not only with his horses–he can tell you everything about every horse at the track. If you’re looking to claim something, he’s always out there clocking horses. He’s forgotten more about horse racing that I’ll ever know and that’s why I’m so enamored with him.

“There are a lot of good horsemen who don’t get enough horses to go big-time. Look at One Go All Go. He was a struggling 5-year-old when we bought him for $62,000 and look what Scooter has done with him. He’s made us $350,000 in six months. How can you argue with that kind of success? It’s nothing I did. It’s all on Scooter.”

Dickey knows first-hand what it’s like to lose a horse to a more prominent trainer. He won the 2011 GII Suburban H. and the 2011 GI Jockey Club Gold Cup with Flat Out (Flatter) only to have the horse taken away and given to Bill Mott after a disappointing run in the 2013 GI Donn H.

But the Rodney Padens of the world–an owner who will give a stakes horse to a small barn–are becoming more and more rare. Everyone wants results and the super trainers produce. Pletcher and the others will tell you that they get the most horse and the best horses because they are outperforming the competition.

“This is a results-oriented business,” Pletcher said. “It’s as simple as that. If you’re successful, you do well, you win races, that attracts more clients. Our program suits what the American owners want. We emphasize 2-year-old and 3-year-old racing and we’ve been fortune enough to be successful in some of the Triple Crown events and a lot of the prep races leading up to them. The one thing we’re proudest of is that we have developed a lot of top stallions for our clients.”

Yet, there is something to be said for how the super trainers have changed the game, and not for the better.

“How much can the game take?” asked Simon. “You see stakes races have short fields, and there’s five horses, and two are trained by one guy and two are trained by another and then there’s a third horse who is 50-1 who was hustled into the race. There is competition for those horses but they are in the same barns and they have no incentive to run five horses in the same race. If the horses were spread out among other trainers, it would make for much better racing. That’s not compelling racing. It’s not fun to watch.”

One solution would be to limit their stalls, to go back to an era when a trainer could only have 40 or so horses. That’s an obvious restriction of free enterprise and, for the most part, no one is for it.

“You can’t tell successful business people who are in this sport either as a business or a hobby what to do,” Brown said. “That’s not going to work. I deal with these people every day. You cannot restrict their free trade. You cannot pick up horses from one trainer and hand them to another guy.”

Brown is sympathetic to the trainers who do not have many horses and are struggling.

“I don’t want to drive anyone out of business,” he said.

Brown said he would be willing to pay what would amount to a higher tax than the smaller barns pay. For instance, he said, he’d have no problem paying a higher fee for stall rent and also suggested that the larger trainer be put into a higher tax bracket when it comes to workmen’s compensation costs.

At Santa Anita, Ritvo and his team have experimented with races meant to level the playing field. They have carded maiden special weight races restricted to homebreds and horses that cost less than $100,000 at the sales. They have written races for trainers who have 20 or fewer horses in their barns.

“We have to try to help these guys,” said Ritvo, a former trainer. “When you talk about day in and day out racing like we have at Gulfstream with 250-some dates, the cheaper races are actually the ones we make the most money on. The economic engine of this game is the guy who bets and they don’t want a five-horse field with a 1-9 shot. The smaller trainer is the backbone of the game and the reason we can have elongated meets. To do so, you need guys like me who came up through the food chain winning average races. The sport simply cannot afford to have these people go out of business.”

But the sport cannot tell WinStar Farm, Mike Repole, Juddmonte, Ahmed Zayat, Ken and Sarah Ramsey, Sol Kumin, Gary Barber, John Oxley or Winchell Thoroughbreds that they have to give a handful of their good horses to someone with five horses in their stable that wins with 8% of their starters.

There’s no easy fix. There may be no fix at all. Super trainers are ruling the sport.

“Is there an argument that the mom-and-pop store can provide a little extra attention to everyone who wants to come and buy tomatoes, or is it better to have a supermarket that can provide all the best stuff?” asks Pletcher. “I don’t know. I think it’s sort of the world we live in, and as long as it’s a successful format, you’re going to continue to see it.”

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/are-super-trainers-good-or-bad-for-the-sport/


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Super trainers are a huge problem in modern day racing.  Limits on stable runners are badly needed as per Hong Kong with their limit of 60 runners per stable

Just looking at some of these numbers in the USA that article says Lukas never had more than 150 horses in his stable.  It also says Chad Brown has 220 horses while Pletcher has 160 horses.  This is for the USA which is bigger than Australia

Yet recently it was posted on this forum that Darren Weir has 643 runners in his stable or something like that.  How many does Waller have???

In any case Waller and Weir have been allowed to amass way too many runners in their stable.  They now control way too many good horses.  They need to have their wings clipped and their stables cut back down to a reasonable size for the good of the game

Early in her prep Winx is mainly racing against her stablemates who won't be trained up to beat her.  This is part of the reason for her amazing winning streak as Waller controls some of the horses that could possibly beat her early in her prep
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tick...tick...tick, this is a recording.


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Waller has always maintained his goal was to train 20% of all horses Australia wide.
" In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win"
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LOL Shocked Question

Did you get that from a Trump tweet by chance Shovog?

That would have him training about 7,000 neddies, the vast majority of which would have limited ability. The paperwork and PR alone would drive him to drink.
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Current Stable

Weir = 581
Waller = 333
Cummings = 297
Hayes etc. = 425
Waterhouse = 254
Maher = 198
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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I recall when there was not racing 7 days a week, Cummings, Smith & Hayes dominated racing.
Nothing has changed too much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by Baghdad Bob Baghdad Bob wrote:

I recall when there was not racing 7 days a week, Cummings, Smith & Hayes dominated racing.
Nothing has changed too much.

True, But that was because they were genuinely great trainers. 

If I am not mistaken there were more horses in training around the nation per race - race-meeting than there is today.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 9:22pm
The diversity of Australian racing was what made it so great. It now looks very boring compared to the 80's. There  seemed to be so many more very good trainers in the ranks. Now the field of trainers and the race fields have thinned out. Perhaps more of the better middle of the road guys aren't getting  a license and work for the big yards instead. This cannot be sustainable. I think it's a scenario that's turned a lot of people off racing.
 
"Pletcher and the others will tell you that they get the most horse and the best horses because they are outperforming the competition"
 
 
They would say that. Big trainers have always been good self promoters. They often don't run the cattle that aren't good enough or city class. I've noticed less development of horses through the grades in the bush.
 
On the other hand the smaller guys at least give the owners a run for their money. They socialise better with the owners and are more hands on with their stock. Bendigo are developing more on course facilities. Ballarat already have. Ballarat already have a few new boys especially their overseas recruits. It will be interesting to see if any local younger training talent emerges. The industry needs it badly.
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Every horse that changes stables in Victoria these days seems to end up with Weir. Sydney racing has been a closed shop for a longtime, generally one or two trainers dominate. Never seemed to have the depth of trainers as Victoria had for while, but now Victoria going that way as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 10:03pm
Will super trainers here in OZ get a better deal from the stewards in regards to penalties for positive swabs . Imagine the chaos if one of the super boys has to close down for a long time  Just think about what could happen to the horses , staff , feed merchants, and all the other persons who rely on the super trainers for their lively hood.  I reckon it must help their cause if they are arguing against the severity of any penalty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 10:32pm
Wasn't an issue with Moody and Maher Bluey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 10:38pm
That rings a bell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHOVHOG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:


Current Stable

Weir = 581
Waller = 333
Cummings = 297
Hayes etc. = 425
Waterhouse = 254
Maher = 198



I bet you think that Waller number is a coincidence
" In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 12:15am
Waller's lucky number?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 12:55am
No - he's only  half a devil Mouse LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHOVHOG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 8:26am
Symbology will be their downfall.
" In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

No - he's only  half a devil Mouse LOL

LOL Or only half-way to reaching his goals of 20% domination 3Bs.

The amount of utter shyte on the internet is mind boggling but as its the end of a long working week, cop this little number:

Angel Number 333

Many people report a sudden urge to wake up in the middle of the night, usually between 3am and 4am. A large percentage of these people find themselves waking at 3:33 on an almost nightly basis. [Ah the wonders of alarm clocks]

What does it mean when you see a series of numbers again and again? Is it merely a coincidence? In most cases, seeing a number like 333 is a message from your guardian angels meant to give you the love and support to help you achieve your fullest personal and spiritual potential.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 1:04pm
Reminds me of the cricket umpire ( English ? ) who used to stand on one leg out at the crease when the clock hit any multiple like 1.11, 2.22 3.33 etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 1:05pm
David Shepherd .... it came to me as soon as I hit send.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 1:06pm
He did it  when the batsmen reached scores like 111 etc too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Baghdad Bob Baghdad Bob wrote:

I recall when there was not racing 7 days a week, Cummings, Smith & Hayes dominated racing.
Nothing has changed too much.

True, But that was because they were genuinely great trainers. 

If I am not mistaken there were more horses in training around the nation per race - race-meeting than there is today.



True, nothing changes! 

No question those mentioned could all train, but they were all genuinely great salesmen, had drive, business sense, a business plan, great advice and loyal staff ... like any successful busniess.

Plenty of equally talented "trainers" never worked out how to attract the high flying clients that enabled them to use the "one bid" strategy at sales and to sweep up all of the best bred yearlings (Smith), or impress the Arab Royalty with their facilities (Hayes), or go overseas to find genuine stayers and target the iconic Spring races (Bart). 

Same things attract the clients today, and if you don't offer it all, you will remain a struggling trainer, regardless of your ability - that's a minor part of the equation.

Oh, and luck to get a couple of good ones that get you noticed will help.
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 3:56pm
I recall the Hayes ( CS ) nickname "Sugar Lips". He was a good poacher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 4:19pm
I agree with most of the sentiments about the Hayes, Cummings,, Smith era but they didn't dominate anywhere near the way the current crop do. A lot more highly skilled upper/middle tier trainers back then and excellent bushies.
 
B Purcell
Cox family
Daffy's
Gravett
Cunnighams
Harrisons
Gaffney
George Symons
Bob Thomsen
Tommy Hughes
Neville Begg
G T Murphy
Ross McDonald
John Meagher
Hoysteds
Honeychurch
Joe Hall
Leon MacDonald
Charlie Waymouth
Owen Lynch
Ian Saunders
Barney Dowie ( few will recall I rated highly )
Ray Hutchins
Cyril Beechey
Brian Ralph
John Pearson
George Hanlon
Theo Howe
Jack McGreal
Jim Kennedy
Angus Armanasco
Bruce McLachlan
 
and so many more I can't list them all ( or recall right now ).  That lot  alone trained all at the same time. Please add to the list.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 4:26pm
 3 major absentees -
 
Jack Denham
Brian Mayfield Smith
Guy Walter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 4:37pm
and of  course
 
J.J.Atkins
K.J.Robinson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 5:50pm
I could name another 10-15, but no need, pretty smart of Bart to go o/s (NZ) lol to buy genuine stayers as yearlings, TJ never bought Redcraze or Gunsynd or Analie or Red Anchor, pretty sure he bred Bounding Away, trained for Woodland so got the pick of their stock without putting his hand up, just had to find owners, only two top price I can recall he paid tops for were Noble Star about /58 and Jupiter /63 7000gn, don't forget 750gns for Tulloch when he went o/s, lol,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 6:48pm
Jack McGreal  - Crepellox 
Kevin Lafferty, one of the best Vic country trainers - Puramaka who holds a special place in my heart for reasons I won't elaborate here. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 7:31pm
Things have changed.  This is not the same game as it was in the 1990s or even the 2000s.  Back then it was a major achievement for a top horse to win 8 in a row.  Now both Black Caviar and Winx come along and back to back rattle off 25 straight wins.  Tells you that the races in Australia have lost their competitive edge at the top.  Too few stables are controlling too many good horses

I remember when it was Gai vs Hawkes as the big 2 stables in Sydney a few years back.  At the time it felt like Gai was dominant and she often had multiple runners in the staying races in Sydney.  But the chat at this time of year was "will Gai train 100 winners for the season?".  Now you have Waller who is in sight of training 200 winners in Sydney for the season.  So he is almost twice as dominant as a dominant Gai used to be.  That is insane

Australian racing administrators have collectively lost the plot.  Racing NSW need to grab a sledgehammer and smash the Waller stable into little pieces.  We can then have a wheel of fortune and distribute the good horses to all the other stables that are hungry for a good horse

At the same the Vics can take a sledgehammer to the Weir stable and smash it into little pieces and distribute all the good runners to other trainers

Hong Kong racing is showing the way with limits on stable runners and limits were needed years ago.  Better late than never
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