Join up at Crownbet - Click here - Crownbet is Thoroughbred Village’s premier betting partner - Join here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Racing - Public Forums > Racing Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - How long should a horse be in work before it races
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Click here for the Thoroughbred Village Home Page - Australia's Premier Online Horse Racing Community. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. Also follow @Villagebet on Twitter for racing tips. Sign up for the village newsletter by clicking here: Newsletter Signup. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.

How long should a horse be in work before it races

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
adolphus twirk View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adolphus twirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How long should a horse be in work before it races
    Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 7:08pm

One of mine was broken in then worked for two months then tipped out.  I understand that.  In a nice paddock  for two months.  Now it has been back in work for almost four months and still has not raced and I have been given no indication of any setback in its preparation.  I have had a lot of horses over the years but I am wondering if I am being overly concerned in this instance.  I had a horse with the same trainer last  year and it was in work for seven months, raced  about six times (there were no setbacks) but it did not win so I sold it. 5 weeks later, it won for a new trainer!!!

Back to Top
Sponsored Links
Click here to view the promotions at Crownbet.


Back to Top
Relampago View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Location: Manangatang
Status: Offline
Points: 5340
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relampago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 7:19pm
Then prob should change trainers!!!LOL
Daintree Duke Fan Club President!!! RIP!!!

Melbourne Autumn Tipping Champion 2009!
Melbourne Spring Tipping Champion 2009!
Back to Top
scoot View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1607
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 7:28pm
you are being had mate. change trainers. i wouldn't recommend changing trainers, just rock up with a truck and ask for the horse. have heard some very sad stories about trainers doing things to horses when they get taken from them so that they don't go any good for anyone else.
Back to Top
Relampago View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Location: Manangatang
Status: Offline
Points: 5340
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relampago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by scoot scoot wrote:

you are being had mate. change trainers. i wouldn't recommend changing trainers, just rock up with a truck and ask for the horse. have heard some very sad stories about trainers doing things to horses when they get taken from them so that they don't go any good for anyone else.
 
Just to clarify, I think he means you have to change trainers, just DONT tell your existing trainer you are going to do so.
 
Just rock up and take your horse! Dont forget its a business for him/her, the longer in work the longer you pay higher bills dont forget!
Daintree Duke Fan Club President!!! RIP!!!

Melbourne Autumn Tipping Champion 2009!
Melbourne Spring Tipping Champion 2009!
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Ballarat
Status: Offline
Points: 30048
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 8:10pm
I normally aim for 12wks off a 2mth or longer break & end up nearer 14wks, in general & this is for a sprinter with the aim of being competitive 1st up. I had 2 very unsound sprinting mares from other trainers who won & ran 2nd (12mths spell) on only 7 & 8 wks work but these were 'kid glove' jobs!!!
Stayers are different in that I prefer to have them competitive 1st up due to difficulties getting a run if unplaced & am therefore looking at perhaps 1400 so more time's needed for serious trials about 1 fortnight apart.
Unfortunately I have to concur with the others re. 'removal without notice' for reasons already stated.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
Back to Top
On The Range View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 464
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote On The Range Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 8:13pm

It varies according to the individual horse and everyone has different methods, but typically, most horses should be ready to barrier trial after about 8 weeks of work. Work would involve; trot and canter for approx 3-4 weeks with some half pace, then solid pace work for the next 2 weeks, then a couple of gallops the next 2 weeks. Set-backs aside, after this time the average horse should be fit enough to barrier trial and if it trials well and pulls up ok, you would be looking to start the horse. Once theyve had a few starts, horses dont need barrier trials for education only fitness.

Breakers may need 2 or 3  full preparations (approx 8 weeks, with a 6-8 week spell in between) to receive the education and conditioning required to trial or race and they should be able to step up to the track work schedule above in their second full prep.

You own the horse and pay the bills and if the trainer has not advised you of any problems, just tell him you want to barrier trial the horse ASAP. If you are not happy with the response then perhaps youd be better off finding a new trainer as suggested because your horse has been in work for more than enough time to get to the races.

Back to Top
The Insider View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 4882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Insider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 9:39pm
Hang on !!! Broken-in then given two months off. Of course it is not ready to race after 4 months. Should be close to a trial though. It has to have a complete educational prep, and learn barriers, jumpouts, working in company etc. Impatient, you are. Dont listen to Scoot, he is a dill. 
Back to Top
tvlark View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 982
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tvlark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 9:42pm

Yeah 90% of the babies aren't there yet! Let them have their time. They need a lot of education in that first preparation - just standard things like changing leads, rolling over, learning to run in a pack, going through the gates. Takes a long time.

Older horses who have had a few preps - if they're not racing or at the very least trialing after four months I'd be asking questions, unless they're somewhat injury prone e.g. Stavka.

Back to Top
Relampago View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Location: Manangatang
Status: Offline
Points: 5340
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relampago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 9:42pm
Insider, there also was another horse to condider, this could be a trend, and a bad one at that... In any case the trainer should be giving Scoot a regular update on progress, which doesnt seem to be happening or he wouldn't be asking the question. So although he might sound impatient, I think it is a valid questions/concern for him...
Daintree Duke Fan Club President!!! RIP!!!

Melbourne Autumn Tipping Champion 2009!
Melbourne Spring Tipping Champion 2009!
Back to Top
The Insider View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 4882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Insider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 9:48pm
Fair enough, but 4 months at next prep after breaker is not unusual. Why is his horse with the trainer in the first place, if he felt he did not perform with the previous horse. Was he cheap? That is quite common, cheaper fees but ages to get an answer.
Back to Top
scoot View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1607
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by The Insider The Insider wrote:

Hang on !!! Broken-in then given two months off. Of course it is not ready to race after 4 months. Should be close to a trial though. It has to have a complete educational prep, and learn barriers, jumpouts, working in company etc. Impatient, you are. Dont listen to Scoot, he is a dill. 
 
4 months it should be trialling, or the owner should be getting an update of where the horse is at. all of my trainers give me weekly updates regardless of where they are at, and usually they give an estimate of when the horse will be at the trials.
 
for example, currently half pace, 3/4 next week for 2 weeks, prob trial in a month to 6 weeks.
 
all horses are different, but i would certainly be expecting to see the horse having jumpouts atleast after 16 weeks of work. Or, have 8 weeks work and another short break, then back into it.
Back to Top
Relampago View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Location: Manangatang
Status: Offline
Points: 5340
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Relampago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by Relampago Relampago wrote:

Insider, there also was another horse to condider, this could be a trend, and a bad one at that... In any case the trainer should be giving Scoot a regular update on progress, which doesnt seem to be happening or he wouldn't be asking the question. So although he might sound impatient, I think it is a valid questions/concern for him...
 
Sorry not Scoot here but AQ
Daintree Duke Fan Club President!!! RIP!!!

Melbourne Autumn Tipping Champion 2009!
Melbourne Spring Tipping Champion 2009!
Back to Top
Miss_GC View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miss_GC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 12:18am

If he was coming back into the paddock for a "look / see", I would say he pretty much has the placed cased out by now.

Do you own the full horse, or have a percentage? Can't hurt to call - I have a 10% share of a horse and still manage annoy the hell out of them.. John Hawkes is a little tougher to get a hold of, but i get pretty close Wink

 
I own 25% of another (Phantom Thief, Racing Wednesday at NEWCASTLE - not expecting much) and the Trainer calls me after every gallop and Barrier Trial.
 
 
I highly recommend MARCUS WILSON at Muswellbrook if anyone is looking for a very good, (cheap), knowledgable, young trainer on the up.
Back to Top
bradjm View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6175
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 1:14am
16 week prep after being broken in, if its taken that long to educate the horse he probably should have had another break by now.
Back to Top
LearFanTest View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 426
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LearFanTest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 1:41am
Trial the horse or spell it.
If the trainer wont do either, then find another trainer and get a second opinion.
Trainers have their own way of doing things but from time to time you need to remind them your paying the bills.
Most of them work very hard and do the right thing by owners.... the ones that dont have little success.
If the horse is trained away from a major track then its possible he (the trainer) is trying to get you a first up kill at good odds.
 
Back to Top
rubiton View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rubiton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 3:15am
Agree with Gay.
 
But then the trainer I worked for all those years ago believed pushing them to get fit less than 12 weeks from the paddock was asking for a short prep once racing (ie you get them fit too fast they tend to handle racing for a shorter time til needing a spell etc).  While he had a small stable and didnt win out of turn none of the horses had injury problems in the 3 or 4 years I was there aside from one that previously bowed a tendon and they couldnt get him back (ended up a beginners horse and was a go doer) and another that copped a whack in the knee when one broke in front of him.
 
However he didnt believe in keeping them in work forever without a trial or race so youd expect at least close to a trial after 16 weeks.
Back to Top
adolphus twirk View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adolphus twirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 5:11am
Thanks for the contributions folks.  I appreciate the different but in fact common perspectives.  I dont have my horses in partnership I am on my own, fewer arguments that way.
Back to Top
bachi View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2204
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 7:48am
8 weeks for a young un then about 10/12 if they have been out for awhile (2/3 months or more)
 
Good luck sounds like you need it Smile
Back to Top
BULLDOGS View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BULLDOGS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 7:55am
had a friend who wanted to change trainers and sent the new trainer to collect the horse on the way through to a meeting without telling the current trainer...Boy was SHE pissed off and would not let the horse go until the bills were paid up..Yet SHE had not done the current invoice for the month...SHE was a complete BITCH about it
Back to Top
the bushman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Location: keysbrook
Status: Offline
Points: 1055
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the bushman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 10:08am
had one last year to  be pre trained to trial then handed over to usual trainer to race, 16 weeks later still hadn't jumped out, when i took the horse away  i found out from trackriders the horse was being worked three days a week, in a box the rest, looked like a broodmare when i picked him up. and she still has a trainers ticket!!!
Back to Top
The Insider View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 4882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Insider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 10:44am
Unhappy
Back to Top
Zenden View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 386
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zenden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 4:13pm
How long is a piece of string?
So many variables come into your equation.
I have seen young horses from breakers well educated that have been schooled well and are ready made racehorses, others that  have never seen a racepad or track for that matter.
Some are slow learners others quick, some are boisterous colts others gentlemen, some finacky eaters who require kid gloves, some are more or less immature and some need backoff from fast work due to bone remoddeling ect.
Get my drift?
The problem I see is you and your trainer dont seem to have good communication chanels going where all this is discussed, so maybe on this fact alone you should change trainers.Yoy should be popping around to see your horse work and get a feel what is going on. Its fun.
And as far as trainers being pissed off with owners moving horses on, they often have a right to be, when another trainer arrives unannounced to do the dirty work of an owner who hasn't the guts or descency to at least be there with  an explanation and willingness to pay out the account.
Too many have been burnt by owners who move their horse on WITHOUT paying th bill!
Back to Top
Miss_GC View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miss_GC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Zenden Zenden wrote:

How long is a piece of string?
So many variables come into your equation.
I have seen young horses from breakers well educated that have been schooled well and are ready made racehorses, others that  have never seen a racepad or track for that matter.
Some are slow learners others quick, some are boisterous colts others gentlemen, some finacky eaters who require kid gloves, some are more or less immature and some need backoff from fast work due to bone remoddeling ect.
Get my drift?
The problem I see is you and your trainer dont seem to have good communication chanels going where all this is discussed, so maybe on this fact alone you should change trainers.Yoy should be popping around to see your horse work and get a feel what is going on. Its fun.
And as far as trainers being pissed off with owners moving horses on, they often have a right to be, when another trainer arrives unannounced to do the dirty work of an owner who hasn't the guts or descency to at least be there with  an explanation and willingness to pay out the account.
Too many have been burnt by owners who move their horse on WITHOUT paying th bill!
 
 

Well said.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.