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How I lost faith in religion

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Munga Rangi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Munga Rangi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

It is a failing of intelligence to associate the divine with the clergy, the priests may claim to represent God, but they cannot produce a letter of introduction. It is far better to cut out the middleman, imo.

 
Agree with you Max. 
Caveat emptor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

"Kill them all and let God sort them out" ........ sounds like your reckoning on life .......
Men act unjustly, and you blame God ? Without free will being withdrawn, and that would make a cypher of us all, the remedy you seek is unobtainable. You want to relinquish freedom of action ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:14pm
Do you both talk to God directly ?
 
Do you hear His voice in your head ??
 
Does He tell you what to do ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:16pm
Do you expect to go to Heaven ....... a place supposedly where there is no sufferring ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:18pm
a fine song from a few years ago .....
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Munga Rangi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Do you both talk to God directly ?
 
Do you hear His voice in your head ??
 
Does He tell you what to do ???

No, I haven't had a chat recently, but I wish he'd tell me who is going to win The Slipper tomorrow Wink
Caveat emptor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:32pm
A lot of people struggle, imo, to separate conceptions of God from the phenomenon of organized religion. The best that probably can be said is that organized religion is an attempt to render in rational terms, that which is clearly not rational, that is, something that can be explained by a relationship between various elements, it is very clear to me that the Riddle of Existence, aka God, is never going to be "explained" by such contrivances. There is a compulsive urge in humans to understand the how and why of it all, but that line of enquiry has yielded absolutely nothing, in regard to the ultimate question.  How could it ? As long as we have a need to have things explained in terms meaningful to us, the conundrum continues to trouble, far better to abolish any ambitions to "understand" God, or what God may be. The dawn will come when you truly admit you know nothing of it, and do not believe you can ever "know", in the way you know how and why, e.g., a loaf of bread rises.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:34pm
 
The universe is 13.77 billion years old..........the earth a mere 4.54 billion..........homo sapiens (us) have been around for approx 200,000 yrs...........& jesus arrived 2,000yrs ago..........mmmmm......just let me think about that for a while !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

It is impossible to imagine a world in which there is no suffering of creatures, except if there is no life at all. Pain and suffering and fear evolved as an impetus or spur, to move away from threatening situations, in the interests of preserving life. If we never felt pain, physical or psychological, or experienced fear, we would not be alive for long.

 
 
What is Gods motivation for cancers in Children ?
 
 


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:36pm
 I feel for you Max...or is it George Pell...

 ??? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Do you expect to go to Heaven ....... a place supposedly where there is no sufferring ??
Do animals go to heaven..........if not why not............& at what point in the evolution of man did the big Fella decide "Ok from now on Heaven is an option" ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

 
The universe is 13.77 billion years old..........the earth a mere 4.54 billion..........homo sapiens (us) have been around for approx 200,000 yrs...........& jesus arrived 2,000yrs ago..........mmmmm......just let me think about that for a while !
Time is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. Einstein said it. The mystics agree, that in the divine realm, a second is as a thousand years. Jesus was a man, there is a great deal of happenstance in his becoming as prominent as he became in history, but he is just one of myriad examplars of what has been called, The Perennial Philosophy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

A lot of people struggle, imo, to separate conceptions of God from the phenomenon of organized religion. The best that probably can be said is that organized religion is e.g., a loaf of bread rises.


I don't , I actively dislike organised religion and its smugness, preaching, hypocrisy,bullying and certainty.

Doesn't stop me from being an agnostic, that is acknowledging the possible existence of "god" or some sort of all encompassing spirit.
For all the logical scientific arguments debunking god it always comes back to the question how did it all start, where did that first amoeba come from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:43pm
The people who are talking about Jesus, and animals going to heaven are completely on the wrong track.
These things are religion's interpretation and as such are a load of garbage as the mystery of god is unfathomable.
Doesn't mean there isn't or couldn't be a god of some sort.
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

It is impossible to imagine a world in which there is no suffering of creatures, except if there is no life at all. Pain and suffering and fear evolved as an impetus or spur, to move away from threatening situations, in the interests of preserving life. If we never felt pain, physical or psychological, or experienced fear, we would not be alive for long.

 
 
What is Gods motivation for cancers in Children ?
 
 
The answer to that problem, is likely that in our egos we value far too much our earthly existences, especially if we insist there is nothing beyond it, and I have witnessed much that tells me that presumption is startlingly wrong. We know we will be brought to nothingness on this Earth, individually and collectively, to cling to it as the be all and end all seems void and futile to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:46pm
 
Dinosaurs lived on the planet 925 times longer than humans have (up until now)
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Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:

 I feel for you Max...or is it George Pell...

 ??? 

Your feelings are reciprocated. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Browndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:54pm
Where did God come from?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:55pm
An obvious next question, but that is where I give up, my head hurts LOL
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Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Where did God come from?
Questions like that are simply an artefact of the way the rational mind has evolved to work, it does not have any application to an undifferentiated unity, and the mystics all agree, in God there is no distinction. It is the workings of the mind that create distinction and discrimination, but in the totality, all is one.
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Why is the human race so arrogant to think they matter more than any other living or non-living thing in the magnificent universe ? If we were invaded by aliens would we still believe we were Gods chosen ones ?
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There is a great deal of illusion in our perceptions, the young can be excused for failing to recognize that, those of us with more more experience, less so. What seemed earth-shattering as a child can be looked back upon with mirth in adulthood, maybe that is indicative of how we would see our adult behaviours if we could "grow" into a greater maturity than most achieve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Browndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Where did God come from?
Questions like that are simply an artefact of the way the rational mind has evolved to work, it does not have any application to an undifferentiated unity, and the mystics all agree, in God there is no distinction. It is the workings of the mind that create distinction and discrimination, but in the totality, all is one.

A disciplined Socratic thought process does not preclude curiosity and clear mindedness does not prevent you from being teachable. In fact it makes you more open than the closed minded zealot who has already decided to shut his mind down on the subject
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

An obvious next question, but that is where I give up, my head hurts LOL

 ditto...

 going to watch the footy...please God, don't let Manly win again...

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 6:24pm
 I might believe in God if Souths ever win the premiership again...

 
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Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:

 I might believe in God if Souths ever win the premiership again...

 

I think you are condemned to agnosticism, at least foreverLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Where did God come from?
That is such an easy and obvious question to answer ................
 
From the mind of man ............ an evil and mischevious man to boot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Where did God come from?
That is such an easy and obvious question to answer ................
 
From the mind of man ............ an evil and mischevious man to boot
Some desperately want to believe, others equally desperate to disbelieve,  yet other people don't fancy themselves clever enough to know, those people are smarter than they think, imo ! Wink 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jujuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Originally posted by jujuno jujuno wrote:

 I might believe in God if Souths ever win the premiership again...

 

I think you are condemned to agnosticism, at least foreverLOL

 very likely...

 God is obviously a Manly supporter....

 
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That has never been in doubtCry
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