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How dumb are these Greens?

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Isaac soloman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 10:59am
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Taxation inequity would explain the growing gap between rich and poor, quite nicely. Many vor most relatively poor people pay more tax as a proportion of their income than the super rich, some would say they need a better accountant, not so, they need am equitable system, and they won't be getting it any time soon, on current indications. And I don't just mean income tax, I mean the total % of their income that winds up going to pay tax, including extortionate taxes on beer and cigarettes even. It's a corrupt system, simple as that.

what is  your definition of a better accountant?
when do you know if you have a good or bad one?
as in better doctors, lawyers, dentists...governments?

taxes on beer and ciggys? not high enough , yet.
however, just heard cask wine could go to $40 . that would stop a lot of drunks, and associated ills in their tracks!

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Passing Through View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:02am
ATO data shows effective corp tax rate in Australia is already 24% & 1/3 companies are already paying no tax

Report reveals which big companies pay no tax

Shane Wright, Economics EditorFriday, 8 December 2017 7:30AM

One-third of Australia’s biggest companies have failed to pay any tax but there are signs tech companies are finally coughing up some of their profits to the local community.

A report from the Australian Taxation Office revealed that in the 2015-16 financial year companies from Walt Disney to Chevron failed to pay tax despite making, in some cases, billions of dollars.

The big four banks were the nation’s biggest taxpayers.

The Commonwealth was the biggest taxpayer, paying $3.3 billion on total income of $42.7 billion. The ANZ ($2 billion), NAB ($2.4 billion) and Westpac ($3 billion) all made substantial contributions.

More than 60 per cent of mining companies did not pay tax, in part because of a big fall in iron ore and coal prices in 2014 and 2015.

Despite that, BHP paid $1.3 billion on $26.7 billion in income, Rio Tinto paid $1 billion on $27.8 billion in income, Fortescue Metals Group paid $393 million on $8.9 million in income and Hancock Prospecting paid $225 million on $1.9 billion.

IT companies which have come under scrutiny in recent years lifted their tax payments.

Apple Australia paid $118 million in tax on $393 million in taxable income, effectively paying the corporate tax rate of 30 per cent.

Its total income, however, was $7.6 billion.

Google paid $16 million in tax on a taxable income of $122 million while claiming it earned $502 million in income.

The report confirmed a slight increase in the number of firms who managed to avoid troubling the tax man.

Glencore Investments declared $18.3 billion in income but not a cent in tax.

Other non-tax payers included Bluescope Steel ($4.9 billion in income), Sydney Airport ($1.3 billion), Toll Holdings ($5.1 billion), Transurban ($2.5 billion) and BNP Paribas ($4.5 billion).

Chevron Australia had $2.1 billion in income but failed to pay tax.

It was the third year in a row that the firm had not paid tax despite earning more than $8 billion in income over the period.

One of the nation’s most prominent media companies, News Corp Australia, declared $2.9 billion in income but did not pay a cent in tax.

Seven West Media paid $53.5 million on a taxable income of $199 million.

ATO deputy commissioner Jeremy Hirschhorn said the country had one of the strongest corporate tax systems in the world.

http://thewest.com.au/news/australia/report-reveals-which-big-companies-pay-no-tax-ng-b88684429z

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cabosanlucas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:09am
big corps are effectively saying "if oz makes the tax rate 0% we will do more business and pay more tax"
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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:15am
Pretty disappointing max, cabo ... wave goodbye to all the smart people, they are not hanging around here if we are going to reward mediocrity, envy, victimhood and entitlement.

They are all exiting and going to the aspirational hub of 21st Century Western Society, to Make America Great Again! 

But rest assured, we will replace them with every year, plus some, with 200,000 (more if the ALP gets into government!) mediocre, envious, victims who may not speak any English, probably do not intend learning, but are absolutely aware of their entitlements! 

... hope you are all well set up for your retirement ... we cant dig a hole to sell our resources, we have tax rates that are "inequitable" on the world stage, so we will produce and sell nothing. On that basis, we will never be able to afford the burgeoning welfare bill when the Baby Boomers all blow the kids' inheritances and have to live off the pension for 15 or 20 years (or until they can be moved to Victoria and exterminated humanely under their euthanasia laws) Where does the money come from? ... we can't pay the interest on our debt now! ... does anyone think that the few income earners will be taxed at a lower rate? ... nobody sees a problem with any of this?Confused

See "Venezuela". I hope you can quickly acquire a taste for Aardvark and Meerkat ....
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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:20am
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

big corps are effectively saying "if oz makes the tax rate 0% we will do more business and pay more tax"

So it would seem that we would be no worse off without these companies cabo?

I wonder if PT would like to provide us with the amount of indirect taxes, duties and charges that these companies who pay "ZERO" tax actually contribute to the government coffers ... just beware that he has been known to conflate, deflect, deny and lie when pressured to provide facts that are detrimental to the Socialist agenda ...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:25am
they will hang around here because oz has 25 million people who want to buy or use things. (48 million by 2060) . a stable political system, an educated labour force.
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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:26am
Those figures should be just as easy to find PT, you might just need to look beyond the The Guardian,GetUp, ABC and Fairfax media sources that you rely on so frequently for your socialist propaganda.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:28am
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

they will hang around here because oz has 25 million people who want to buy or use things. (48 million by 2060) . a stable political system, an educated labour force.

They won't hang around if we cant afford to buy anything, because we produce nothing but debt ... where do you think our "educated" labour force is going?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:28am
Why would they want to go anywhere else while our govt lets the book all their costs here and their profits elsewhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:31am
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

they will hang around here because oz has 25 million people who want to buy or use things. (48 million by 2060) . a stable political system, an educated labour force.


They won't hang around if we cant afford to buy anything, because we produce nothing but debt ... where do you think our "educated" labour force is going?  


thats an argument to increase wages which have been stagnant for 15 years! Penalty rate cuts help this how? tax cuts for bsuiness that helps profits and shareholders and no one else helps spending how??

so i agree...we need stronger unions, better wages. alp can help there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:32am
We lived off the sheep's back at one time, and we've lived off our minerals and mining exports ... when the demand disappears, will it be "innovation and agility" that will pay the bills ... you know, like the NBN?... when are we getting that VFT?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:36am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Why would they want to go anywhere else while our govt lets the book all their costs here and their profits elsewhere?

The government has actually brought in laws about that PT ... were you standing behind the door when they mentioned how much it had reduced the deficit ...? ... hey, wait a second, you knew that you cheeky Comrade!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:37am
Taxation is the main problem, everything else is "distanced". Major companies paying less tax than a homeless person, in some cases, how can things be more wrong than that ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:53am
New laws are pointless unless they apply everywhere, and at the moment there are plenty of countries willing to exploit the situation to accept low payers. The European Commission took Ireland to court  earlier this year because Ireland was refusing to claim $13B in taxes it was owed from Apple and their use of Ireland as a tax haven. Ireland tried to challenge the EC to not collect the tax. That is bizarre. The answer is not to drag everyone into a race to zero tax to accommodate corporate predators and compliant rogue govts, the answer is to make everyone pay the correct amount where it is earned and eliminate these havens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

We lived off the sheep's back at one time, and we've lived off our minerals and mining exports ... when the demand disappears, will it be "innovation and agility" that will pay the bills ... you know, like the NBN?... when are we getting that VFT?


I thought the market rules ? didnt the boss of one of australia's largest coal mines just say "coal mining is dead" ?

renewables is the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 11:58am
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Taxation is the main problem, everything else is "distanced". Major companies paying less tax than a homeless person, in some cases, how can things be more wrong than that ?


succinct and nailed it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 12:02pm
The World Bank announced last week no new investment for oil or gas after 2019

Exxon the worlds largest fossil fuel bases corporation announced they are reversing years of resistance and are adding risks associated with climate change into their reports and expanding investment into renewable. Shareholders are demanding change
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 12:07pm
hey doc...you would be great as an alp voter, insider....to keep the bastards honest.

if only you could have a broad acceptance of their 'supposed' economic ideology. which admittedly is just a watered down version of the libs when they are in govt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 12:32pm
The Tax Equity Party needs to come, it is sorely needed. Anyone who thinks battlers need to finish up paying a bigger % of their income as tax, than the very wealthy, is either a fool or a knave. Or both ! Yet that inequitable situation, is entrenched.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Taxation is the main problem, everything else is "distanced". Major companies paying less tax than a homeless person, in some cases, how can things be more wrong than that ?

and why do you think that is?

have a look at who the shareholders of these companies are. probably you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 12:54pm
A simple matter of equity, Isaac, if you can't see that, nothing more that I can say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Taxation is the main problem, everything else is "distanced". Major companies paying less tax than a homeless person, in some cases, how can things be more wrong than that ?

Sorry, that is just misleading ... how much stamp duty, transfer duties, payroll tax, GST, and other "indirect taxes" does a homeless person pay?

The biggest blood suckers are the Not For Profits, the ones that are funded by mysterious overseas interests who are aligned with the Socialists (Soros) ... oh and of course, The Churches!Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

The World Bank announced last week no new investment for oil or gas after 2019

Exxon the worlds largest fossil fuel bases corporation announced they are reversing years of resistance and are adding risks associated with climate change into their reports and expanding investment into renewable. Shareholders are demanding change

The end is near!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

The Tax Equity Party needs to come, it is sorely needed. Anyone who thinks battlers need to finish up paying a bigger % of their income as tax, than the very wealthy, is either a fool or a knave. Or both ! Yet that inequitable situation, is entrenched.

You would need to be a naive knave to believe that battlers are paying more tax than the very wealthy ... if you are aware of a corporation, or equally an individual who is engaging in tax avoidance, it is your duty to advise the ATO, and they will be prosecuted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Taxation is the main problem, everything else is "distanced". Major companies paying less tax than a homeless person, in some cases, how can things be more wrong than that ?


Sorry, that is just misleading ... how much stamp duty, transfer duties, payroll tax, GST, and other "indirect taxes" does a homeless person pay?

The biggest blood suckers are the Not For Profits, the ones that are funded by mysterious overseas interests who are aligned with the Socialists (Soros) ... oh and of course, The Churches!Angry

Not misleading, I am talking about taxes paid on actual nett income. Do you think that third of companies that paid no company tax, ran at a loss ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Taxation is the main problem, everything else is "distanced". Major companies paying less tax than a homeless person, in some cases, how can things be more wrong than that ?

and why do you think that is?

have a look at who the shareholders of these companies are. probably you!

Yes, a fact that most people do't care to admit Isaac ... Australian Super Funds hold over $2.3 Trillion in assets ... some in cash, some in real estate, some in collectibles, etc ... but the vast majority is in the share market, and a lot of that is invested in those very companies that "pay no tax" ... so the average punter is tax fraud!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Taxation is the main problem, everything else is "distanced". Major companies paying less tax than a homeless person, in some cases, how can things be more wrong than that ?


Sorry, that is just misleading ... how much stamp duty, transfer duties, payroll tax, GST, and other "indirect taxes" does a homeless person pay?

The biggest blood suckers are the Not For Profits, the ones that are funded by mysterious overseas interests who are aligned with the Socialists (Soros) ... oh and of course, The Churches!Angry

Not misleading, I am talking about taxes paid on actual nett income. Do you think that third of companies that paid no company tax, ran at a loss ?

Yes, of course ... surely you are not claiming that those statistics represent companies that are defrauding the ATO and engaging in illegal tax avoidance, and getting away with it?Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 1:41pm
Most companies do not make any substantial profit max ... mine certainly doesn't, unless there is a strategic reason to do so!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 1:45pm
I never said they were breaking any laws, the laws are the problem, not the companies. They would be derelict in their duty to shareholders, not to minimise their tax.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2017 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by max manewer max manewer wrote:

Taxation is the main problem, everything else is "distanced". Major companies paying less tax than a homeless person, in some cases, how can things be more wrong than that ?


Sorry, that is just misleading ... how much stamp duty, transfer duties, payroll tax, GST, and other "indirect taxes" does a homeless person pay?

The biggest blood suckers are the Not For Profits, the ones that are funded by mysterious overseas interests who are aligned with the Socialists (Soros) ... oh and of course, The Churches!Angry

Not misleading, I am talking about taxes paid on actual nett income. Do you think that third of companies that paid no company tax, ran at a loss ?

Surely you do mean taxable income. Confused
I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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