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Horses with long strides

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Skz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 8:14pm
Some of the experts are claiming its BC length of stride that makes her such a champion 

my question is how many horses have as big or bigger stride than BC?

how many of these are legless?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 8:24pm
No good having a long stride if the rate is much slower than those with a smaller stride but faster rate, conformation determines this to a large degree. The more economical their stride, the less energy is used hence the generally highly regarded long, low action for firm turf racing.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Group 1 Selections Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 8:25pm

Apparently Let's Elope and Empire Rose both had massive overstride,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 8:27pm
So why is this subject talked about as much?

THEY SAY Rob Waterhouse says so as does his old man Bill a lot of discussion about something which many legless type have as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Group 1 Selections Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

No good having a long stride if the rate is much slower than those with a smaller stride but faster rate, conformation determines this to a large degree. The more economical their stride, the less energy is used hence the generally highly regarded long, low action for firm turf racing.
 
Very true Gai but of course there is always exceptions. Might And Power looked like he was trying to climb a wall in the front end and one leg used to flap out the side when he got going.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Browndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 8:27pm
I think the great Todman was reputed to have had one of the longest strides at around 26 feet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by Skz Skz wrote:

Some of the experts are claiming its BC length of stride that makes her such a champion 

my question is how many horses have as big or bigger stride than BC?

how many of these are legless?
Big motor imo, most unprepossessing  horse you would ever see was the scrawny Rough Habit, at the top of its game was near unbeatable, asked by a journo to explain its ability, John Wheeler could only attribute it to a "big motor", you wouldn't have thought it would run out of sight on a dark night to look at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote petegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 9:17pm
aren't 2 'normal horse' strides equivalent to BC's 1? Heard it somewhere
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Browndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 9:28pm
Black Caviar has been measured at 8.33m
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Black Caviar has been measured at 8.33m

do you think the stride is the reason she is as good?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Browndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 9:35pm

11-02-2012

Nathan Exelby From: The Courier-Mail February 11, 2012

HOW is it that Black Caviar can put her rivals to the sword with such ruthless ease time after time?

The Black Flash has in all but a handful of occasions put her races to bed just inside the 400m point, allowing jockey Luke Nolen the luxury of giving her a cosy run to the line.

The answer lies in the extraordinary length of her stride and a detailed analysis of her "hidden sectionals" which show the ability to sustain a higher cruising speed for furlongs on end.

Dailysectionals.com.au founder Vince Accardi, who was this week described by form guru Rob Waterhouse as "no doubt the smartest man on times", has a database of advanced sectional data stretching back a decade and says not only does Black Caviar run faster than any other horse, but she can do it for longer.

"Her winning effort in the Newmarket, where she averaged better than 19 metres per second for three consecutive furlongs, was her greatest effort," Accardi said.

"I can't ever recall a horse being able to do that. If they do hit 19 (mps) they do it for one section. This horse did it over 600m and in a canter."

Such was the merit of the performance, it rated some 17.3 lengths above the average for Flemington 1200m races. To put that in perspective, Takeover Target's best Flemington effort was +12.3 lengths - some five lengths inferior.

"It's a rare jewel to find a horse that can sustain that cruising speed for three sections," Accardi said.

"I would have loved to put the clock on Bernborough, but I just can't fathom how a horse can do it."

To gain a better understanding of those numbers, 19mps is 10.5sec per 200m, meaning in one 600m section, Black Caviar took just 31.5. In the Newmarket, she hit a top speed of 19.47mps, running the 600m to the 400m in a startling 10.27.

The Lightning Stakes, her previous start, produced similarly dominant middle sections.

Her ability to run those sectionals and sustain them is made possible in no small way by the fact her stride is far bigger than most horses.

Black Caviar's stride has been independently measured at 8.33m, meaning she takes 24 strides over 200m. Her rivals are taking 30 strides to cover the same distance.

Accardi says Black Caviar's sectional speed is such that she could give rivals 10 lengths head start at the 400m and still beat them.

He is convinced she will be even better now connections are testing her beyond the specialist sprint trips.

"The top trainers always say you need a 1400m-1600m horse to win down the Flemington straight and her numbers suggest to me she is a genuine miler all day long," he said.

To prove his theory, Accardi tabled the top 20 1400m performances in his database and compared the splits to Black Caviar's numbers.

"Through those middle sections she was on average 2.5 lengths quicker from both 800m to 600m and 600m to 400m," he said. "Using her best figures, she was up to four lengths quicker per section."

Exceed And Excel smashed the Caulfield 1400m course record in September, 2003, yet hit a top speed of just 17.95mps. Cox Plate winner Pinker Pinker hit 18.13mps when winning over the Caulfield 1400m last February. Grand mare More Joyous got to 18.4 in her Futurity.

Black Caviar has hit those numbers in all bar one of her 17 career starts, with the ability there from day one, where she struck three high 18mps together at her April, 2009 debut as a two-year-old.

The next generation of the Caviar family, All Too Hard, made his first public appearance yesterday, impressing by winning a jumpout at Flemington.

TAB Sportsbet responded by making the Casino Prince colt a $35 chance in Golden Slipper betting.

All Too Hard is prepared by John, Wayne and Michael Hawkes after they won a bidding duel over Black Caviar's connections at last year's Inglis Australian Easter Yearling Sale.

The colt, who was bred by Rick Jamieson from Helsinge, fetched $1,025,000 to top the sale. He was knocked down to Team Hawkes on behalf of Nathan Tinkler for his Patinack Farm operation.

The Caviar factor is expected to continue at this year's Easter Sale, with a Redoute's Choice filly from Helsinge tipped to be the top lot, catalogued as Lot 200 and to be sold by Makybe on behalf of Jamieson.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 9:46pm
Slow horses have long strides too Browndog why aren't they winning G1 races?

My point is its not the stride that makes her what she is it helps her sure but it snot the reason otherwise other slow legless horses would be winning better races than they are now.

Many small horses have accelerated away from their opposition in devastating style with ease spacing their rivals. she's just a champion because she is ...she's naturally more talented than the rest nothing else more to it imo a Freak! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:07pm
Accardi says Black Caviar's sectional speed is such that she could give rivals 10 lengths head start at the 400m and still beat them

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horlicks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:19pm
The great Frankel also had an exceptionally long stride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoosterCogburn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:38pm
Bip, who are these slower horses with just a big a stride as BC?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:43pm
I'm sure many slow horses have big strides 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:45pm
Accardi says Black Caviar's sectional speed is such that she could give rivals 10 lengths head start at the 400m and still beat them


she could give horses like Hay List 10L start at the 400m and still beat it hmmm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoosterCogburn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:47pm
Well, didn't she do nearly that in TJ a couple years back?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote early4lunch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:49pm
It isn't so much what she has as she hasn't-a weakness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:49pm
no not ten maybe 3L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 10:52pm
This years BD and Slipper winners are smaller framed fillies. Long stride helps but to go with it you need the powerful hind qtrs, shoulders, enormous girth, lungs and heart! BC is one in a million!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2013 at 11:08pm
Great racehorses come in all shapes and sizes, but the one thing they all have in common is that they are beautifully balanced athletes. Thats what makes most of the good ones look like they are doing it so easily. Lots of horses with a long stride are also gawky, awkward and easily unbalanced, so a long stride on it's own is not the sign of a really good horse.

Of course horses also need a strong will to win because if they don't have that it doesn't matter how well put together they are they just won't win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 10:16am
Wonder what resting heart beat BC has
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mowie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 1:55pm
was a horse around the bush two years ago gentleman something it was called trained by donna gaskin,,biggest horse in racing at the time had a massive stride but could not get around bends on any track apart from swan hill...,my guess he woud of been 10m plus stride an was just a ok horse 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orpen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 3:44pm
Stride length is only part of the equation. The stride frequency is as relevant, if not more so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 5:13pm
I heard that Kincsem, the great Hungarian mare who was unbeaten after 54 starts, had such a long stride her belly almost touched the ground.  I wonder if she had hyperflexible joints?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by Skz Skz wrote:

Accardi says Black Caviar's sectional speed is such that she could give rivals 10 lengths head start at the 400m and still beat them


she could give horses like Hay List 10L start at the 400m and still beat it hmmm


Accardi didn't say that about her Ascot run though. He said the way the race was run with the uphill finish it suited 1400-1600m horses.
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