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Helsinge

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Rosscoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rosscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Helsinge
    Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 6:47pm
Remarkable performance to date. Two runners to date Black Caviar and Moshe - 11 starts between them for 11 wins! Very freakish ....
Current Stable - "Aboutogobang" + "Supersay"
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slowdown View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 7:48pm
how good is Black Caviar mate!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote giddyup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 8:53pm

Next foal going through Inglis Easter in Sydney - Lot 277.  Interestingly (I think) by Casino Prince - anyone want to run a book on what he'll go for? Cheers

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kavg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 11:55am
I wouldn't touch it as she obviously has an affinity with Bel Esprit as do the other broodmares mentioned in the thread on the breeding forum. Casino Prince has no Nijinsky or Vain so can't see it working. i bet the broodmare owner is regretting the decision to go to Casino prince. Having said that I'm sure Tinkler will step in and "pay" big money for it to advertise his stallion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 3:53pm
Does anyone know if Helsinge was ever tried as a racehorse ? And, if not, why not ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BIGDOGROSSA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 9:05pm
Aquinta racing bought Helsinge for $300k

She broke down when she was getting broken in, tried many times to get her back but to no luck

The work she did in training was supposedly very smart

Rick Jameson from Gilgao farm bought her for $115 as a broodmare from Aquinta. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 9:17am
$115 is that a typo ?
STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

бык дерьмо

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BIGDOGROSSA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 6:29pm
sorry 115k
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2011 at 7:42am
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

I wouldn't touch it as she obviously has an affinity with Bel Esprit as do the other broodmares mentioned in the thread on the breeding forum. Casino Prince has no Nijinsky or Vain so can't see it working. i bet the broodmare owner is regretting the decision to go to Casino prince. Having said that I'm sure Tinkler will step in and "pay" big money for it to advertise his stallion.
 
Maybe she is a freakish broodmare who transmits her ability.
 
BE may not even be the key.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 7:15pm
Thought I'd dig this thread out with All Too Hard making his debut on Saturday.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 7:22pm
Great to see that Treasury Notes and Tally are both resuming, with a hopefully profitable campaign in front of both of them.  Star
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 7:45pm
Grey Colt by Bel Esprit ex Midnight Sun ex Song Of Norway going thru Melb Premier, Lot 65.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mayor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 8:48pm
Really interesting breeding pattern on that one. Nijinsky 3mx3m and Vain 3fx3f on the catalogue page alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

I wouldn't touch it as she obviously has an affinity with Bel Esprit as do the other broodmares mentioned in the thread on the breeding forum. Casino Prince has no Nijinsky or Vain so can't see it working. i bet the broodmare owner is regretting the decision to go to Casino prince. Having said that I'm sure Tinkler will step in and "pay" big money for it to advertise his stallion.


Looks like I may have got this right as far as who would step in and buy it.
AEYS
2011
Y
b
c

()
Casino Prince
Desert Sun
Makybe-ag
Hawkes Racing
$1,025,000

Hawkes racing buys it, yet it is racing under Patinack Farm-I wonder what sort of deal was made. Who said Tinkler wasn't supporting Casino Prince?

We'll have to wait till after Saturday at least to see if he is any good and whether I got everything right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fremz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2012 at 12:15pm

Obviously without having watched him race, he must have his fair share of ability considering the Hawkes have thrown him in the deep end early, right before some of the big 2 year old races. With an animal like him you'd have to be very cautious of when/where to run him considering his potential worth.

 
Moshe who was a full relation to BC wasn't raced till he was three so the Hawkes didn't rush him. Even the mighty mare only raced as a late 2 year old.
 
I reckon he might be pretty smart. Looking forward to watching him.
for those about to punt, we salute you...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ENJOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 10:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bel Esprit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 11:52am
Geez,nice win what a top broodmare she is!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 11:57am
There is also a colt out of Lady Circles called Decircles. (?) He ran an unlucky fifth (to my eye) last weekend. He is 3yo (?) and has only had a few starts i think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 1:15pm
And poof there goes the vain theory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

And poof there goes the vain theory.

Possibly Brad, but I'd like to see him go on with it first and also come back as a 3yo, even if it as an early 3yo. We all know that early 2yo races can be very fickle form wise but good start all the same.

I still would like an explanation of how Hawkes was down as the buyer and it ends up owned by Tinkler. Coincidence that the sire is Tinklers stallion or deal behind the scenes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 4:28pm
anyway it might not be Vain the interesting one in the mix is Vain's grandsire Court Martial who is from the 1-p family of Helsinge.  Kenmare is very close but no cigar being from the 1-m family.

If you look at Helsinge she is 1-p.  The Vain brought in the 1-p of Court martial.  Snippets brought in the 1p of Hornbeam.  Then Bel Esprit brings in Vain with the second strain of Court Martial's 1-p. 

 Mind you don't knock the Vain thing as he was a big speed machine exactly like her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

And poof there goes the vain theory.

Possibly Brad, but I'd like to see him go on with it first and also come back as a 3yo, even if it as an early 3yo. We all know that early 2yo races can be very fickle form wise but good start all the same.

I still would like an explanation of how Hawkes was down as the buyer and it ends up owned by Tinkler. Coincidence that the sire is Tinklers stallion or deal behind the scenes?


I wouldn't call February exactly 'early' as 2yo racing goes & Wayne did say earlier in the week, he's racing purely on natural ability atm, headed to Sydney (Sires) if he won today, so I reckon there's plenty of upside to him. Hope he's around a while as I think it's a ripper name:  ALL TOO HARD, possibly a reference to the difficulty of emulating big sister!!

I thought it was very common for trainers to buy y/lings on a/c of owners so don't see anything sinister with the deal. Wayne also said Nathan gives them a high priced youngster each year with a view to producing stallion material for Patinack, due to Johns' reputation with colts i.e. Octagonal, Lohnro & I forget the others he mentioned Sleepy

Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 6:47pm
Domesday :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orpen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2012 at 8:59pm
Commands
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 9:10am

In the last ten years (worldwide) there have been 33 times that a broodmare has left two stakes winners on the same race-day. Only 4 of these have been in Australia:

Broodmare

Date

Horse

Race

Helsinge

18 Feb 2012

Black Caviar

VRC Lightning S., Gr.1

All Too Hard (by Casino Prince)

VRC Talindert S., L

Dolly Will Do

13 Nov 2010

Playing God

WATC WA Guineas, Gr.2

God Has Spoken

WATC RJ Peters S., Gr.3

Academy of Dreams

19 Sep 2009

Heart of Dreams

MRC Underwood S., Gr.1

Rightfully Yours

MRC Hussonet Cup, L

Lady Capel

18 Mar 2006

Casino Prince

AJC Skyline S., Gr.3

Lord of the Land

AJC Young Members Aspiration H., L

The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote orpen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 9:47am
And that means All Too Hard has a spooky double...Helsinge & Lady Capel(Casino Prince)! Six degrees of separation?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 12:51pm
I'm glad someone noticed that.  I thought it was a little bit cool!
The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2012 at 1:44pm
How many stallions have had the same fortune to have two (or more?) stakes winners on the same day?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rosscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 12:01pm
What a record to date of the 3 progeny to race thus far!

Including 2 stakes-winners -

24 wins from 26 starts ....

Unbelievable!
Current Stable - "Aboutogobang" + "Supersay"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 9:02pm
I'll eat my words. From what I saw yesterday Casino Prince has dispelled the Vain theory.

I wonder if we anyone can think of a theory that encompasses the success of Helsinge with Bel Esprit and Casino prince.
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