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Hartnell
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Shawy38 View Drop Down
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$1.10
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Speediskey View Drop Down
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Wow generous odds for a horse that is cooked.
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People always say he had the Caulfield Cup at his mercy. The Hartnell that won the Turnbull would have, but the Hartnell that turned up on Cox Plate day wouldn't. How do you know which one it would've been?
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Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

People always say he had the Caulfield Cup at his mercy. The Hartnell that won the Turnbull would have, but the Hartnell that turned up on Cox Plate day wouldn't. How do you know which one it would've been?

He had the Sydney Cup at his mercy too.Wink
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I certainly would NOT run him in the Caulfield Cup. He is a class 10f horse- wfa classBig smile- and they are very thin on the ground in Australia. In fact I can only think of 2 of them.LOL And one of those may indeed be cooked.

So his target races should be the Makybe Diva, the Underwood, the Turnbull, the Caulfield Stakes (whip him up for the Craven Plate if Winx runs in Caulfield Stakes) and the Mackinnon. Not necessarily all of them.

Of course if he is cooked it won't matter.
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Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

$1.10
I like a realist  LOL
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Xavier View Drop Down
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Jump out Friday
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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My campaign for Hartnell

19/8 Lawrence 1400
16/9 Makybe Diva 1600
7/10 Turnbull 2000
21/10 Caulfield Cup 2400m
reductio ad absurdum
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his cup run last year on the prep he had was a cracker djebel.

Obviously if we see a chink in Winx's form he will go Cox Plate, but that prep looks right to me Thumbs Up
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

My campaign for Hartnell

19/8 Lawrence 1400
16/9 Makybe Diva 1600
7/10 Turnbull 2000
21/10 Caulfield Cup 2400m


Is that a bit of a steep rise, djebel? If he's fit for 1400m first up, it will be a rushed prep to get him fit enough for 2400m with only one 2000m race under his belt.
Sunline...simply supreme
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Such a hard horse to get a gauge on.
If it wasn't for Winx, he'd be a champion.
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Hoffy95 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SkyDancer SkyDancer wrote:

Such a hard horse to get a gauge on.
If it wasn't for Winx, he'd be a champion.

Definitely the Hay List to Black Caviar. 
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djebel View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

My campaign for Hartnell

19/8 Lawrence 1400
16/9 Makybe Diva 1600
7/10 Turnbull 2000
21/10 Caulfield Cup 2400m


Is that a bit of a steep rise, djebel? If he's fit for 1400m first up, it will be a rushed prep to get him fit enough for 2400m with only one 2000m race under his belt.

He is a fast lean horse he does not need much racing to come to hand and too much racing will send him over the top.

Looking at the calender what other race would you throw in there and not send him over the top ?

I think the program I have him having he can win all 4 rraces.
reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice View Drop Down
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He raced pretty much every fortnight last spring.

SPELL12 weeks 3 days
RESULT3  Of   244.5L1 Nov 2016FLEMOPEN G13200mGOODJ MCDONALD (12)56.0$5.5F$450,000On pace. Sound run.
REVIEWRACEQ
RESULT2  Of   108L22 Oct 2016M V3U OPEN G12040mSOFTJ MCDONALD (7)59.0$5.0$440,000On pace. Good effort.
REVIEWRACEQ
[NOTE]6 Oct 2016 - Trainer Comment: "After carefully considering which races were the best for Hartnell we decided that the Cox Plate is the better race for him. The horse is still paid-up for the Caulfield Cup." Henry Plumptre, Managing Director of Godolphin in Australia.
RESULT1  Of   123.5L2 Oct 2016FLEM4U OPEN G12000mGOODJ MCDONALD (3)57.5$1.9F$302,500Dominant. All class.
REVIEWRACEQ
RESULT1  Of   66L17 Sep 2016RAND3U OPEN G22000mGOODJ MCDONALD (3)59.0$1.4F$122,000Bolted in. Too good.
REVIEWRACEQ
RESULT1  Of   68L3 Sep 2016RAND3U OPEN G21600mHEAVYJ MCDONALD (2)59.0$2.1F$152,000Easy win. Too good.
REVIEWRACEQ
RESULT2  Of   73.5L20 Aug 2016RAND3U OPEN G21400mGOODJ MCDONALD (3)59.0$21.0$50,000The real Hartnell.
REVIEWRACEQ
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djebel View Drop Down
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I doubt they will give him 2 1400m races and I doubt they will give him 2 1600m races.

If they are going to give him 2 2000m races than somewhere along the line he will race 2 weeks in a row, perhaps the Caulfield Stakes into the Caulfield Cup. I hope that is not the case.

His target will be the Caulfield Cup unless something happens to the great one.
reductio ad absurdum
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Balciano View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

My campaign for Hartnell

19/8 Lawrence 1400
16/9 Makybe Diva 1600
7/10 Turnbull 2000
21/10 Caulfield Cup 2400m



Is that a bit of a steep rise, djebel? If he's fit for 1400m first up, it will be a rushed prep to get him fit enough for 2400m with only one 2000m race under his belt.


He won the BMW 3rd up in his first Aust campaign, off the back of only 1 1600 metre and 1 2000 metre run.

Looks an ideal prep in my amateur opinion. 3rd and 4th runs into a prep seem to be his best even going back to his European form.
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As long as the Caulfield Cup is the final goal, Cummings should be able to navigate the path.

The fact that he didn't go there last year was a travesty and another blight on O'Shea's failed tenure at Godolphin.
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Hard to see him missing the Top 3 tomorrow
I am happy with a trifecta of BHB, Hartnell and Humidor.
"Go Hard or Go Home”
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3blindmice View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Straight Connector Straight Connector wrote:

As long as the Caulfield Cup is the final goal, Cummings should be able to navigate the path.

The fact that he didn't go there last year was a travesty and another blight on O'Shea's failed tenure at Godolphin.
Massive assumption or do you actually know that it was O'Shea's choice to miss the CC? Seems at odds with the news at the time.

Hartnell ran second to Winx when resuming in the Warwick Stakes in August but since then the powerhouse gelding has been in rampant form, winning the Chelmsford Stakes, Hill Stakes and Turnbull Stakes by an aggregate margin of 17.5 lengths.

It was Hartnell’s absolute dominance in the Turnbull that convinced the Godolphin stable to target a Winx showdown in the Cox Plate.

Godolphin’s Australian managing director Henry Plumptre said the reason Hartnell is being aimed at the Cox Plate was because the gelding was racing so well at 2000m and to avoid a clash with the stable’s European raider Scottish in the Caulfield Cup.

“We think the Cox Plate is a nice race for Hartnell, he is going very well over a-mile-and-a-quarter, he is settling in his races,” Plumptre said.

“Someone mentioned to me yesterday that we left him in the Caulfield Cup at the last acceptance stage and we did that in case something went wrong with Scottish this week, but it was purely to see if he (Scottish) gets over his trip OK.

“John Ferguson didn’t think there was much point running Sheikh Mohammed’s best European stayer against his best Aussie stayer in the Caulfield Cup and wanted to split them up.’’

Hartnell’s trainer John O’Shea was typically measured when asked about the much-awaited clash between his stable star and Winx.

“We are all about getting our own house in order, it is really no consideration what else is in the race,” O’Shea said. “It would be an honour to win a Cox Plate for His Highness but again as to what is in it, we are not going to give any focus to that.
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I'm confused. The article you posted confirms it was not in his plans at all to send him to the CC, he was only nom'd as a back up to Scottish.

The fact he wanted avoid a clash with Scottish in the CC as opposed to Winx in the CP, shows furthermore how badly mismanaged the prep was.

At the end of the day, O'Shea was the trainer and he had if not the final say, then a major say in the prep surely. And if he didn't, well he was a lame duck trainer. And that's just another blight on his time.
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What confused you SC? It was pretty clear where the decision came from, and it wasn't O'Shea - who during interviews about a range of horses often deferred to "the boss". Godolphin's hierarchy is/was not optional for trainers from what I've read but I'm happy to reconsider if you have better info.
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Originally posted by Balciano Balciano wrote:

Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

My campaign for Hartnell

19/8 Lawrence 1400
16/9 Makybe Diva 1600
7/10 Turnbull 2000
21/10 Caulfield Cup 2400m



Is that a bit of a steep rise, djebel? If he's fit for 1400m first up, it will be a rushed prep to get him fit enough for 2400m with only one 2000m race under his belt.


He won the BMW 3rd up in his first Aust campaign, off the back of only 1 1600 metre and 1 2000 metre run.

Looks an ideal prep in my amateur opinion. 3rd and 4th runs into a prep seem to be his best even going back to his European form.

Valid point.
Sunline...simply supreme
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Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

What confused you SC? It was pretty clear where the decision came from, and it wasn't O'Shea - who during interviews about a range of horses often deferred to "the boss". Godolphin's hierarchy is/was not optional for trainers from what I've read but I'm happy to reconsider if you have better info.


Ha i have no info, other than an opinion... right or wrong.

Personally I just think as head trainer, he should have had a major say in the prep of the horses that he trained. And it was so glaringly obvious that the CC was the way to go, that O'Shea (among others) were culpable in the failure to pick up one of the big 3 last spring.

I acknowledge there is a hierarchy at Godolphin, but the trainer surely has enough clout to push for the most suitable race in every circumstance.

At the end of the day I just think O'Shea was a massive failure and this is just one example.
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Can't agree that he was a failure, let alone a massive one. Plenty of top horses left the stable and not much popped up to replace them. Someone on Racenet pointed out that Godolphin had gone off the boil in all jurisdictions in recent years. Wouldn't know myself but if it's true one of the reasons may be the hierarchy and perhaps its no coincidence that both Ferguson and Plumptre have now departed. Irrespective,you've picked a poor example given the fact that the decision was made by grand poobah Ferguson and backed by Oz head honcho Plumptre.
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Wins today.
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I have to admit, the Lawrence is a more interesting race than the Warwick, despite the presence of the great one in the Warwick. And since there is nothing on either race on this racing forum- it is a racing forum, right?- I will post here.
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Centrebet taking him on heavily with $3.7 - I had to take that, even though they have a good record when taking a set like this against something. It is a bet.
Sunline...simply supreme
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No hope IMO, don't like him against quality like BHB at Caulfield. Think he runs a nice 2nd but this has BHB written all over it.
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We're talking about a horse that has never raced at the track, never won over the distance, never won first up against a track specialist at probably his best distance with a great first up record.
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Agree Speedi - lay him until at least $5.

Wont be surprised to see Star Exhibit run well fresh - Bart the one. 
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