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Gold Mag

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Shrunk in the Wash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gold Mag
    Posted: 17 Jul 2018 at 7:43pm
Just catching up with some replays and surprised no one has mentioned this fellows win last Wednesday at Sandown
Closely related to the talented Sangster.
I wonder what his goals will be over the coming months
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Sunline View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 6:21pm
Are they betting on how far tomorrow?
Sunline...simply supreme
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 6:39pm
Ben Hayes talked about him and possible aims on Trackwork this week: https://www.racing.com/shows/track-work

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 6:59pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAgTtx7j-08

Stable best from David Hayes. They expect him to go to much higher levels.

Pros: Time was good for the day and L600 was very good at Sandown; drawn to go wherever they want.
Cons: Beat nothing;  never raced down straight; this field is much stronger

I can see why people like him as he looks to have the most potential but for me at evens he's unders  against some fair straight performers.
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Bonfield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:04pm
By Savabeel out of a High Chaparral mare he's bred to run 2400m so to be so smart over sprint trips bodes well for his career. Quite strongly related to Sangster (by Savabeel out of Gold Mag's granddam) 
which won VRC Derby and G1 in NZ over 3200m.
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Bonfield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:19pm
Ben Hayes suggested the Emirates Stakes over 2000m might be a race he could run in if he lives up to expectations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:31pm
Rarely do you see a 2000m horse run that fast over 1100m and 1200m, even early in their career. If he does, he will be close enough to a champion given he'll be a stayer with a turn of foot.

But usually they end up enigmas - bred to stay but sprint.
Sunline...simply supreme
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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

Rarely do you see a 2000m horse run that fast over 1100m and 1200m, even early in their career. If he does, he will be close enough to a champion given he'll be a stayer with a turn of foot.

But usually they end up enigmas - bred to stay but sprint.


When trained by Australians.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Bonfield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

Rarely do you see a 2000m horse run that fast over 1100m and 1200m, even early in their career. If he does, he will be close enough to a champion given he'll be a stayer with a turn of foot.

But usually they end up enigmas - bred to stay but sprint.

You are proabably right, but he just might be a top class middle distance horse.
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3blindmice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 2:31pm
Not criticising the ride but suspect he was ridden too close and will do better held up, over further, around a turn, and with a more solid early pace (lol, asking for a lot really). Thoughts? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 3:27pm
David Hayes said he thought that he didn’t handle the straight.
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TJMitchell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by crooked_gambler crooked_gambler wrote:

David Hayes said he thought that he didn’t handle the straight.

Not the first good one not to, and won't be the last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Originally posted by crooked_gambler crooked_gambler wrote:

David Hayes said he thought that he didn’t handle the straight.

Not the first good one not to, and won't be the last.
What good ones have not handled the straight?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:19pm
I’m not generally sold on this whole “straight” thing. More likely he’s looking for further, he raced like it... or he’s not that good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

I’m not generally sold on this whole “straight” thing. More likely he’s looking for further, he raced like it... or he’s not that good.

Agree. Probably both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:35pm
I think some horses just race better when they have a rail next to them and a bend to go around.
It’s how they learn from a young age, so that’s what they look for.
Horses are smart, they remember every little detail.
Some of them just get lost out in the open.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by crooked_gambler crooked_gambler wrote:

I think some horses just race better when they have a rail next to them and a bend to go around.
It’s how they learn from a young age, so that’s what they look for.
Horses are smart, they remember every little detail.
Some of them just get lost out in the open.


It is a firthy that horses learn this from a young age.

The vast majority of tbe time they are working beyond witches hats.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by crooked_gambler crooked_gambler wrote:

I think some horses just race better when they have a rail next to them and a bend to go around.
It’s how they learn from a young age, so that’s what they look for.
Horses are smart, they remember every little detail.
Some of them just get lost out in the open.


It is a firthy that horses learn this from a young age.

The vast majority of tbe time they are working beyond witches hats.





I was a race horse trainer in the Western Districts for 29 years
I think I know how horses a trained.
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3blindmice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:56pm
More fact than furphy I'd have thought djebel. 

He raced with his head on the side most of the way yesterday. Also had no cover. 

Still, the expectations were much higher than the delivery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 4:56pm
There’s no doubt some horses race better at certain tracks than others. Some might prefer say Randwick or Eagle Farm rather than Rosehill or Doomben. But I’m not convinced it goes much beyond that. And as Bonfield suggested, I’m yet to see a top class sprinter not “handle” the straight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Such Is Life Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 5:13pm
I had $500 to win on him yesterday and after looking at the replay several times will double my bet on him next start (hopefully over 1400m around a bend).

He looked lost surrounded by horses and never looked comfortable in the run.

His last 100m was his best of the race after shoving off a horse laying on top of him in the final furlong.
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3blindmice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 5:17pm
The straight debate will go on forever. Suffice to say that apart from the very top drawer (Vain etc) I can't recall any horse being labelled top class after just two runs in restricted company. I'm happy to wait and watch. Breeding suggests to me that 1100/1200m won't be his forte.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 5:47pm
He is simply a typical example of a middle distance staying type that shows speed and typically Australian trainer runs him into the ground over unsuitably short trips.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 6:22pm
I thought her an well but agree with the distance theory.

If you watch the race, he is with the leaders at the 300m then they sprint and he is left behind a little, but he rallies to finish second and pass the others in the last 100m.

I think 1400 m will be beneficial, but he will not be a group contender until he hits 1600m at the minimum.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 6:51pm
IMO Hayes tends to if anything overtrain his horses rather than having them fresh. Given his breeding Gold Mag should have either gone up to 1400m+ 3rd up, or kept him very fresh for 1200m. He simply raced too dour for 1200m. After all he's bred to run 2400m.
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