Q&A with Joe O'Neill

Winning Post’s Paul Richards catches up with Prime Thoroughbreds' Joe O'Neill

PR: Joe, your syndication business, Prime Thoroughbreds, recently had its 1000th winner. Who brought up the milestone?

JO: It was Vivilici at Devonport (August 20). Adam Trinder trains her, and it was her sixth win from 20 starts. She’s a good, honest mare down there.

To syndicate and part-own 1000 winners is quite an achievement. What do you think when you hear that figure?

It is really nice. It is quite an achievement when you think about it. Ellie Edwards helped set up our website late last year and she thought it would be good to mention how many winners we’d had. So, between Christmas and New Year I went back through our records and found all of them. There were some great memories looking through those past winners.

I can imagine. Do you have a favourite horse?

It’s a hard one to answer as they’ve all given us a lot of pleasure. It’s a great thing to help people part-own a racehorse, but I can imagine you aren’t going to let me get away with that answer. I’ll go with Calming. She did so much for us. She was our first stakes winner when she won the Davenport Classic (2002) in Adelaide. She was also our first winner in Brisbane and Melbourne. I also have a soft spot for Holding. We bought him out of a paddock for $12,000 and he ended up winning a Wangoom Handicap (2004) and finished with almost $275,000 in prizemoney.

Of course, Rubisaki has to be included. She was placed in a Group 1 (third in the Sangster Stakes, 2021) and won three stakes races in a row.

So how did you get involved in syndication in the first place?

I met (trainer) Bill Mitchell at a Friday lunch back in the late 1990s. I was working in the Australian Army, in the recruiting area. I’d been in the army for 20 years and decided it was time to do something else. Bill and I caught up again a year or so later. At the time he had Peter Moody running his Brisbane stable and had a strong team in Sydney as well. His horses were going well but he wanted to find some more owners. I offered to give him a hand. At the time people like Shelley Hancox, Vern Rayner and Harry Lawton had syndication businesses. Bill thought owning horses was becoming expensive and that the days of one owner having 30 horses were starting to disappear. We decided to try to syndicate our own. We didn’t touch his existing database of owners and tried to find some new ones.

What did you do?

The first ad we placed was in the Sportsman newspaper. It was for a Celestial Dancer colt and I’ll never forget where I was when I got the first phone call. I was driving near the Australian Golf Club in Sydney, and I pulled over and parked under a bridge to take the call. I could only just hear the person on the other end, but as it turns out, he came on board and stuck with us for the next 23 years. It was only when his wife got very sick a couple of years ago that he had to have a spell.

And who was your first winner?

It was Cautious Lover at Gosford (February 1999). She was by Alquoz out of Now Then. Larry Cassidy rode her. Bill Mitchell trained her and it all sort of took off from there. We started to get a few winners, which was the best advertising you can get.

Back when you were starting out, how did you communicate with your owners?

Paula, who worked in our office, used to print off the form, we’d get Bill to write his comments about the horses’ chances on it, then Paula would fax it individually to each owner. These days we email it, plus we have a weekly newsletter that goes out to almost 600 owners. Plus, we have owners’ videos.

How do you go with owners who aren’t happy with how their horse ran?

We occasionally get them, but we make sure we’re honest with all our communications. While we have been successful, there are no guarantees with horse ownership, so if the horse isn’t showing much, we’ll let them know.

What about when the horse retires and/or goes to stud?

Well, we try to protect owners as we believe they’re better off not trying to breed from the mares. It is difficult enough racing them. These people are buying up to 10 per cent of a horse and the amount of money involved in breeding a horse, most of our owners can’t afford it. On top of the service fee, all the other expenses involved — it’s just too much when there is no guarantee of a return.

How many horses do you buy each year?

Usually around 15. Bill Mitchell and his son James know the sort of horses we’re after, so they go and check out all the yearlings at the farms we like and come up with a list of around 120. I like to go through the pedigrees. You’ll look at the page in a catalogue and it will list three winners the dam has produced, but I like to look at the ones not mentioned on the page. The dam might have three winners, but it could be from 10 runners. The chances are this one will be no good either, so we lose a few off the list that way.

Do you have a price in mind for those you have left?

Yes, price is very important. We not only have to be able to afford to buy it, but also syndicate it. Once you’ve bought the yearling, you’re up for expenses like insurance, breaking in, transport from the sales to the stable, their spelling costs, entry to any race series. It all adds up. As a guide, a yearling I buy for $60,000 will end up being syndicated for around $100,000 once you factor in all the other expenses, including our own mark-up. When I first started, I probably didn’t have a big enough mark-up, but it has evolved over the years.

I believe you’re a fan of first-season sires.

I love them. The thing with first-season sires is the stud is keen for them to be a success, so they attract around 40 per cent of the best broodmares in Australia, as they’re trying to get their stallions going. If the stallion turns out to be any good, you’ve been able to get a yearling at a nice price before they become too popular.

You spread your horses around the country. How do you decide who gets which horse?

We’re very lucky that we’ve got a great group of trainers that we use. In New South Wales, we’ve got horses with John Thompson and Max Lees. In Victoria, we’ve had a lot of luck with Patrick Payne and recently Tom Dabernig has started taking a few for us, plus we’ve got Michael Trinder in Tasmania. They all have a long background in the industry — they were born into racing. John’s father, Vic, won a Sydney trainers premiership. Kris’s father was Max Lees, who was a great trainer. Patrick of course is part of the Payne dynasty. Tom Dabernig’s grandfather was Colin Hayes and the Trinder family also has a long history of success in Tasmania.

They also have the great quality of being easy to talk to.

Exactly. They’re all good to deal with, plus they’re masters at placing horses. They regularly put them in races that they can win. The other thing is that they’re reasonably priced, which is important when you’re working with such small margins as a syndicator. There are others around that we had to stop using as they were too expensive.

With trainers all over the country, how much travelling do you do?

A lot. On average I take around 100 flights a year.

Have you any idea who have been the most successful jockeys among your first 1000 winners?

Um, that’s a good question. Well, Billy Egan has been fantastic for us and Patrick Payne in recent years. When we started off, Brett Prebble won a lot of races for us before he headed to off to Hong Kong. Darren Beadman was another who was brilliant for us in those early years. There have been quite a few others since then as well, but I’d better mention Brendon McCoull in Tassie and Michael Cahill in Queensland also.

Most racing fans know your colours — blue with a white star and a red cap. How did you come up with those?

They’re from the days with Bill Mitchell. He was a big fan of Eastern Suburbs (now Sydney Roosters) in the NRL. I love them because with the red cap, they’re easy to find in a race.

How is the syndication business at the moment?

Right now, trying to sell a horse is as tough as I can remember. I think the economy is part of the problem, but also COVID wasn’t great for the syndicating business as people couldn’t go and watch their horse race for almost two years. We had Rubisaki and Fituese winning stakes races during COVID and their owners rarely saw them race.

How did you go during the COVID years?

It was tough. People weren’t keen to buy as they couldn’t go to the races. I consciously didn’t get out there and try and sell for those reasons, but we still kept the communications up. I was including a recipe of the week in the emails back in those days.

Are people starting to come back to the races?

Yes, I think they’re starting to get interested again, but it’s very expensive on the track. Food and drinks set you back a long way before you’ve even had a bet. It’s something the clubs need to be aware of.

How easy is it to get tickets for all the owners to see their horse race?

It’s pretty good. We can either email them out or they can pick them up at the raceday office.

And can all the owners get into the mounting yard?

It can be difficult on the very big days during the carnivals, but most of the time all the owners can get in and hear what the jockey and trainer have got to say.

Where do you think syndication will be in say 10 years?

I don’t think it will change that much. There will still be a market for people to get involved at an affordable price. I’m concerned that racing is in danger of being dominated by the massive stables though. Ciaron Maher and David Eustace have something like 800 horses now and Chris Waller also has a huge team. Annabel Neasham also seems to be growing pretty quickly. So, it will be interesting, but the market tends to sort itself out. If you don’t get winners, you won’t survive, so we’ll continue to battle on.

Do you still enjoy it?

I absolutely love it. I’m passionate about the horses and love going to see them as yearlings, at the stables or on racedays, plus I get to meet so many different people who have got involved with us. I’m 67, but I have no interest in retiring. I love it too much.

Any advice to racing fans or prospective owners?

Enjoy your racing and try to get along and see them race. You can’t beat being there when your horse wins.

Joe, great to catch up and once again well done on a 1000 winners.

Cheers, Paul. Good to chat.Q&A with Joe O'Neill