Join up at Bet Easy - Click here - Bet Easy is Thoroughbred Village’s premier betting partner - Join here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Racing - Public Forums > Racing Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Germany Bans Tongue Ties.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Click here for the Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.

Germany Bans Tongue Ties.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 36760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Germany Bans Tongue Ties.
    Posted: 25 May 2018 at 12:03pm
No this is not about silencing me.


TONGUE TIES BANNED IN GERMANY FROM 1ST JUNE As from the 1st June 2018 no horse will be allowed to wear a tongue tie during any horse race in Germany.



More to come........







STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
Sponsored Links
Click here to view the promotions at Bet Easy.


Back to Top
tillyras View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 12:21pm
That truly is bizzare
Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 7370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 12:26pm
Germany is truly bizarre
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 36760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 12:29pm
I think some of the rules Germany have are fantastic but it will be interesting to see the reasons behind this.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 7370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I think some of the rules Germany have are fantastic but it will be interesting to see the reasons behind this.


Of course you do but that is just another strike against Germany.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 36760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I think some of the rules Germany have are fantastic but it will be interesting to see the reasons behind this.


Of course you do but that is just another strike against Germany.

Do you know why they have done it ?




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 7370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 12:47pm
No and I don't really care to find out but if i was a a betting man and I am I'd wager animal welfare bullgelati.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 36760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

No and I don't really care to find out but if i was a a betting man and I am I'd wager animal welfare bullgelati.


Sounds like a reasoned point of view. 




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 36760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 2:40pm
Ok, 2 hours and 37 minutes after opening this thread I am calling bullgelati on it. I can not find anything on the net to substantiate the post.

Ouch


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
3blindmice View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 17948
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 3:08pm
Banning bridles from June 1 2019, saddles June 1 2020
Back to Top
SHOVHOG View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Apr 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 979
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHOVHOG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 4:23pm
The sooner they ban jockeys the better as well. If they couldn't steer a horse they would be in a circus or a stkilda mad Monday celebration.
" In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win"
Back to Top
Ticino View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 6:39pm
Hello,
it's widely known at the Forum of Thoroughbredvillage, I'm born and raised in Germany. I have to admit I haven't heard or read so far about the new rule.
 
In your case I would try to contact the "German Breeding and Racing Organisation", The Direktorium für Vollblutzucht und Rennen e.V., Rennbahnstrasse 154, Postfach (Postbox) 62 01 80, 50737 Köln, Germany, phone: +49 (0)221 74 98 10, Fax: +49 (0)221 74 98 68 or 69
The Website is: Galopp-Sport.de, but you don't find the necessary info at this page, atleast I found an e-mail address: dvr@Direktorium.de
 
Maybe it's helpful, if you mention Mr. Schmanns, for the "Organisation of the Races" (I did my best to translate the German term). Don't hesitate to write in English.
 
Hope I could help.
 
regards, Ticino
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Ballarat
Status: Online
Points: 31429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 6:53pm
I think a few of us were hoping you may be able to shed some light on the situation, many thanks Ticino Thumbs Up
If you haven't heard of it, what hope have we Antipodeans? Big smile
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
Back to Top
RED HUNTER View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: PERTH
Status: Offline
Points: 16056
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 7:42pm
(this may help)

Two other types of equipment used on racehorses, which the RSPCA opposes due to the discomfort and pain they can inflict, are spurs and tongue ties. Spurs, which are made of metal and are attached to the back of riding boots, exert sharp pressure when the jockey squeezes or kicks the horse in the flank area. A tongue tie is a piece of nylon that is wrapped around the tongue and tied to the lower jaw to keep the tongue in place during a race. Restricting the movement of the tongue in this way causes discomfort and can lead to permanent injury

Back to Top
tillyras View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 7:49pm
TONGUE TIES NOW NO LONGER TO BE USED IN GERMAN RACES -We have just been informed that as from 1st June 2018 horses will be banned from wearing a TONGUE TIE in all races in Germany. This notice has appeared in the latest edition of the German Racing Calendar.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 36760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 8:00pm
Jeepers when I googled German Breeding and Racing Organisation it was not a lot of help as far as horse racing is concerned Censored


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
RED HUNTER View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: PERTH
Status: Offline
Points: 16056
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2018 at 8:22pm
and this....

1Chine House Veterinary Hospital, Sileby Hall, Cossington Road, Sileby, Leicestershire LE12 6RS, UK; 2Equine Health and Performance Centre, University of Adelaide, Roseworthy, South Australia 5371, Australia.

Email: judithfindley@hotmail.com

Reasons for performing study: The use of tongue ties (TT) is common among racehorses. However, other disciplines, including those under FEI regulations, have banned their use. There is a paucity of information regarding the rationale for TT use in racehorses and other factors associated with their use, including the type of material used and complication rates.

Objectives: To investigate factors associated with TT use in Australian Standardbred (STB) racehorses.

Study design: Cross‐sectional.

Methods: An electronic survey was sent to 3040 Australian STB trainers with email addresses listed on the Australian Harness Racing Directory. Follow‐up reminders were sent one month after initial contact. Descriptive data analysis was performed.

Results: 535 (18%) trainers responded to the survey, with 85% of the participants reporting TT use. TTs were used more commonly during racing (84% n = 418) than in training (64%, n = 316). The method of application of TTs and determination of appropriate tightness varied between trainers. Elasticated bands were the most commonly used TT material (60%). TTs were left in place for longer during training (10–20 or 20–30 min) than racing (5–10 or 10–20 min). TTs were applied most commonly to prevent horses getting their tongue over the bit (78%, n = 387), only 37% (n = 134) reporting TT use was related to suspected upper airway obstruction. Complications associated with TT use were reported by 23% of trainers (n = 115) that use TTs. Superficial cuts were the most common complication reported by 10% trainers (n = 51), followed by anxiety or distress 9% (n = 45).

Conclusions: This is the first study to provide objective data on the reasons for and details of use of TT in Australian STB. The majority of trainers use TTs for training or racing, primarily to aid with control. A quarter of trainers using TTs reported complications. Determination of how tightly TTs should be applied is very variable.

Ethical animal research: The study fulfilled the ethics requirements for University of Adelaide ethics committee. Source of funding: None. Competing interests: None declared.

Back to Top
RED HUNTER View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: PERTH
Status: Offline
Points: 16056
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2018 at 9:10am
This is a damn good read...do not bypass this...a story about BITS/TONGUES

(also mentions GERMANY ...a horse racing without a bit...photo shown)



Back to Top
RED HUNTER View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: PERTH
Status: Offline
Points: 16056
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2018 at 9:18am
Here's how it looks these days...the example is RANDWICK meet SAT 26 May 2018

GEAR

Race 1 - 11:25AM ENERGY AIR PLATE (1400 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1GRAFFBOBS Bonus SchemeBlinkers First TimeBlinkers
2PEMBROKE CASTLEBOBS Bonus SchemeNilEar Muffs (Pre-Race Only), Lugging Bit
3ORCEINBOBS Bonus SchemeBlinkers Again, Ear Muffs (Pre-Race Only) First TimeBlinkers, Ear Muffs (Pre-Race Only), Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
4ROYAL CELEBRATIONBOBS Bonus SchemeNilNil
5THE AUTUMN SUNBOBS Bonus SchemeNilLugging Bit
6WHITELEYBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers
7MICKEY BLUE EYESBOBS Bonus SchemeBlinkers First Time, Winkers Off First TimeBlinkers, Lugging Bit
8COTERIEBOBS Bonus SchemeBlinkers First Time, Lugging Bit First TimeBlinkers, Lugging Bit
9BRILLIANT MINDBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
10I LIKE IT EASYBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
11SEPARATEDNilLugging Bit
Race 2 - 12:00PM SUPPORTERHUB HANDICAP (1400 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1SWEET DEALBOBS Bonus SchemeBubble Cheeker (Near Side) AgainBubble Cheeker (Near Side), Winkers
2VONTAINENilLugging Bit
3I AM KALANIBOBS Bonus SchemeNilEar Muffs (Pre-Race Only), Lugging Bit, Winkers
4HEAT HAZEBOBS Bonus SchemeNilNil
5ORIABOBS Bonus SchemeNilNil
6TORYJOYBOBS Bonus SchemeLugging Bit Off First Time, Norton Bit First TimeEar Muffs, Norton Bit
7NIPOTINABOBS Bonus SchemeEar Muffs (Pre-Race Only) First TimeEar Muffs (Pre-Race Only), Lugging Bit
8TOUCH OF MINKBOBS Bonus SchemeNilLugging Bit
9NORTHERN LIGHTSBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers
Race 3 - 12:35PM MCCARTHY HOMES HANDICAP (1200 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1SAVATIANOBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
2SASSO CORBAROBOBS Bonus SchemeNilLugging Bit, Synthetic Hoof Filler
3SAVVAN (NZ)Blinkers AgainBlinkers, Lugging Bit
4ZONKTongue Tie First TimeTongue Tie
5ZAFINANilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
6MOLLYFIEDNilCross-over Nose Band, Lugging Bit
7MISS IMAGINATIONBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
8ANNANDALE LASSBlinkers Off Again, Winkers AgainLugging Bit, Winkers
Race 4 - 1:15PM TAB HIGHWAY HANDICAP (1000 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1SHE KNOWSBOBS Bonus SchemeNilConcussion Plates (Front), Lugging Bit
2LARLABROOKNilLugging Bit, Tongue Tie
3DOMINANT CROWNBlinkers Again, Nose Roll Off First TimeBlinkers, Lugging Bit
4GO THE GANTRYConcussion Plates (Front) First TimeBlinkers, Concussion Plates (Front), Lugging Bit
5CLANG’S VICTORYNilLugging Bit
6PRINCESS LOTTIEBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
7SEE ME ROCKBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Tongue Tie
8OAKFIELD TIMENilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
9EL SIDNilLugging Bit
10ODDS OR EVENSBOBS Bonus SchemeNilCross-over Nose Band, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
11FALERINALugging Bit Off First Time, Standard Bit First TimeStandard Bit
12GOT NOTHINGNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
13FORCE AWAKENSNilLugging Bit
Race 5 - 1:55PM EML HANDICAP (1600 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1COLLATERALNilLugging Bit
2VELADERONilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
3PHILOSOPHYBlinkers Off First TimeLugging Bit
4AFTER ALL THATNilLugging Bit
5VAUCLUSE BAYNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
6BASTIA (NZ)NilBlinkers, Lugging Bit, Synthetic Hoof Filler
7DUBAIINSTYLE (NZ)NilBlinkers, Cross-over Nose Band, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
8LAY DOWN THE LAWNilNorton Bit, Tongue Tie
9CENTRAL WITNESSNilTongue Tie
Race 6 - 2:35PM WILSON ASSET MANAGEMENT HANDICAP (2000 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1ALL TOO HUIYINGBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
2ALMIGHTY CROWNBOBS Bonus SchemeNilLugging Bit, Winkers
3LIVE AND FREE (NZ)NilLugging Bit
4MEROVEEBlinkers Off First TimeLugging Bit, Tongue Tie
5GEORGICA (NZ)NilBarrier Blanket, Lugging Bit, Winkers
6DESTINY’S HERONilNil
7DEVIL’S LAIRBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
8TURNBERRYBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers
9CAMPAIGNBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
10SEABABEBOBS Bonus SchemeNilLugging Bit
11HIGH DUDEBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
12OMBUDSMAN (NZ)NilBarrier Blanket, Ear Muffs (Pre-Race Only), Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
13PRINCESS MIABubble Cheeker (Off Side) Off First TimeBlinkers
14SAVVY KEN (NZ)Nose Roll AgainLugging Bit, Nose Roll
15SUBBAN (NZ)NilLugging Bit, Tongue Tie
Race 7 - 3:15PM FUJITSU AIR CONDITIONING MCKELL CUP (2400 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1ECUADOR (NZ)NilLugging Bit
2DESTINY’S KISSNilBandages (Front), Blinkers, Lugging Bit
3OUR CENTURY (IRE)NilNil
4MAURUS (GB)NilNose Roll, Tongue Tie
5LOVANINilLugging Bit
6NAVAL WARFARE (IRE)Lugging Bit Off First Time, Norton Bit First TimeNorton Bit
7THE GETAWAYNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
8RICHARD OF YORKE (GB)NilBlinkers, Bubble Cheeker (Off Side), Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
9LA COURBETTE (FR)NilCross-over Nose Band, Ear Muffs, Lugging Bit
10PLOT TWIST (IRE)Blinkers First TimeBlinkers, Standard Bit
Race 8 - 3:50PM THE MAN SHAKE HANDICAP (1100 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1WIDGEE TURFNilNil
2OXFORD POETNilNorton Bit, Tongue Tie
3PECANSNilLugging Bit
4TO EXCESSNilLugging Bit
5DAL CIELO (NZ)NilLugging Bit
6LE CORDON BLEUNilLugging Bit, Tongue Tie, Visors
7DREAMFORCENilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
8I THOUGHT SOBlinkers Off First Time, Ear Muffs First TimeEar Muffs, Lugging Bit, Tongue Tie
9SAMANTHABlinkers First Time, Winkers Off First TimeBlinkers, Lugging Bit
10WELL SPRUNGNilTongue Tie, Winkers
11PERIZADANilEar Muffs (Pre-Race Only), Tongue Tie
12BOLERO KINGNilLugging Bit
13PETROSSIANNilLugging Bit
14SWEET SERENDIPITYNilLugging Bit, Synthetic Hoof Filler
Race 9 - 4:30PM ANTHONY DIPROSE MEMORIAL HANDICAP (1400 METRES)

NoHorseGear ChangesAll Gear
1RENEGEDNilBlinkers, Bubble Cheeker (Off Side), Tongue Tie
2PELORUS JACKNilLugging Bit
3KOOL VINNIENilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
4BEACONBOBS Bonus SchemeNilLugging Bit, Winkers
5SCHUBERTBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers, Cross-over Nose Band, Lugging Bit
6CARLUCANilLugging Bit
7GOOD WEATHERNilNil
8SCREAMARRNilBlinkers, Lugging Bit
9SPARKY LADBOBS Bonus SchemeNilCross-over Nose Band, Lugging Bit
10CHOICE LARGANilLugging Bit, Winkers
11FIERCE IMPACT (JPN)NilLugging Bit
12HIGH MISTNilBarrier Blanket, Norton Bit, Tongue Tie
13SO SPIRITEDNilBar Plates (Front), Lugging Bit
14REIBY RAMPARTNilLugging Bit, Tongue Tie
15PLAYARDBOBS Bonus SchemeNilBlinkers
16CHARMING LADNilLugging Bit
17eVOLPENil
Back to Top
Isaac soloman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 2576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2018 at 9:51am
If they ban tongue ties, then nose bands as well!

rspca trying to stay relevant, should stick with getting the live animal trade right. they must have vested interests in vets who perform throat surgery.

or perhaps vets are behind this, missing out on these type, of usually failed surgeries to "correct" throat problems.

tt's and nosebands can be used together, or either one or the other, sometimes depending on what the horse likes. and believe me, if a horse doesnt like it, they will let you know! usually the jockey is the one who finds that out.

these devices can be used as a precaution before breathing problems arise, and those problems are not much fun, for the trainer, owner or the horse.

from a breeding point of view, perhaps not a good idea to breed with animals that have these problems, but then what comes first, chicken or the egg scenario.

these are time immemorial problems, and i think tt's and nosebands are the kindest way to deal with them, and prolong an animals working life.

otherwise what is the alternative.....

who are these people that think up these "banning" ideas? cant work it out so just ban it? what next....




Back to Top
Isaac soloman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 2576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2018 at 9:53am
is it germany trying to "protect" its breeding industry?

the world has been breeding with horses that have problems forever. why a problem now?
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 36760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 9:28am


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
Ticino View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ticino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 9:15pm
Hello,
the new rule is now to find at the "German Racing" Website, since 31th May.
 
regards, Ticino
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Ballarat
Status: Online
Points: 31429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 10:23am

Over 20% of Australian horses race with their tongues tied to their lower jaw


The use of widespread use of tongue-ties in horse racing in Australia has recently come under fire.

Proponents of the tongue-tie – a strap that immobilises a horse’s tongue – argue that it prevents breathing issues during races, increasing performance and improves the rider’s control of the horse.

But there are limited data to show that tongue-ties improve racing speeds overall, and there’s mounting evidence that they can cause stress and injury. Tongue-ties are banned in most non-racing equestrian sports in Australia, and Germany recently banned them altogether.



What is a tongue-tie?

A tongue-tie is a strap that immobilises a horse’s tongue by attaching it to the lower jaw (and sometimes to the bit in the horse’s mouth). The straps may be fashioned from nylon stockings, elastic bands or leather.


Tongue-ties date back to the 18th century. Early reports suggest that they were used to prevent abnormal noise and airway obstruction, caused by the horse pulling back its tongue and forcing its soft palate backwards. In lay terms, many refer to the horse that does this as having “swallowed its tongue” or “choked down”.

In recent years, endoscopy has confirmed that displacement of the soft palate during exercise can obstruct a horses’ airway and limit oxygenation, reducing athletic performance.

Exactly how tongue-ties prevent this is unclear, but it is believed that tying the tongue forward may prevent retraction of the tongue and larynx and help to stabilise the upper airway.

However it’s far from certain the tongue-ties are effective. A recent study found they did not prevent displacement in over 70% of affected horses.

Furthermore, there are many causes of respiratory noise in horses, and there is no rationale for the use of a tongue-tie for these other conditions.

As well as potentially preventing upper airway obstruction, tongue-ties may stop horses from getting their tongue over the bit, increasing the rider’s control.

How common are they?

Tongue-ties are banned in most non-racing sports by the international governing body of equestrian sports, Federation Equestre Internationale, so are not seen in events like show-jumping, dressage and eventing. (In Australia tongue-ties may be used in polo, but only under veterinary advice and for a maximum of 10 minutes.)

In both Thoroughbred and harness racing, their use is widespread. Horses racing with tongue-ties are specified on the race-card, so the scale of their use can be estimated from these data.

Research presented at the 2017 World Equine Airways Symposium revealed that Australian Thoroughbred racehorses wear tongue-ties in over 20% of all race starts

This can be compared to the 5% of starters reported to wear a tongue-tie in the UK.

Data from all Thoroughbred races in Australia between 2009 and 2013 show that 72% of trainers used a tongue-tie on at least one horse over the 5-year period. Similarly, a survey of 535 Standardbred trainers found that 85% used tongue-ties on one or more horses during training or racing.


Read more: Poll says most people support a ban on whips in Australian horse racing


Why do tongue-ties matter?

Using relentless pressure to modify a horse’s behaviour is against the principles of ethical training.

In a recent survey, 23% of Australian Standardbred trainers reported problems associated with tongue-ties, including lacerations, bruising and swelling of the tongue, difficulty swallowing, and behaviour indicating stress.

Another Australian study investigated horses’ responses to 20 minutes of tongue-tie application at rest in comparison to a sham treatment. (During the sham treatment the horses’ tongues were manipulated for 30 seconds to simulate the placement of a tongue-tie.)

Compared to the sham treatment, there was more head-tossing, backwards ear position and gaping during tongue-tie application. Horses with previous experience of tongue-ties showed more head-tossing and mouth-gaping, suggesting that horses did not simply get used to the intervention.

During the recovery phase, lip-licking was more frequent after tongue-tie application than after sham treatment, suggesting that after their tongues are restrained horses are highly motivated to move them. Salivary cortisol concentrations increased after tongue-tie application, indicating a physiological stress response.

These potential problems prompted a recent international equine welfare workshop on various common veterinary and management practises to score tongue-ties as having a “profound transient impact”.

The industry needs to address two separate issues. Firstly, if tongue-ties are being used to address upper airway obstruction then a veterinary diagnosis should be required. There are many causes of breathing noise that are unrelated to palatal issues, and which would not be helped by a tongue-tie.

Secondly, there is the issue of control. If one argues that tongue-ties are needed for safety because they stop the tongue travelling over the bit, then theoretically one is obliged to use them for all horses – since all horses have the capacity to adopt this evasion.


We need better research to understand exactly how tongue-ties help or harm horses. Given that other equestrian sports are conducted without tongue-ties, many would argue that racing should be as well.
Thanks 3bm Thumbs Up
http://theconversation.com/over-20-of-australian-horses-race-with-their-tongues-tied-to-their-lower-jaw-99584
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Ballarat
Status: Online
Points: 31429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 10:28am
"At least 15mm wide" Confused Stockings are well under 1cm once tightened, what a joke Ouch

Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
Back to Top
Baguette View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 18 Dec 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 1934
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 11:19am
Gay my only experience with racehorses is retraining them off the track. All the ones we've had have had the same problem ie they're terrified of their mouth. Which sounds odd but just means put a bit in their mouth and a human holding the reins they set their poll get their heads up and are waiting to be jerked pulled around and generally discomforted . We normally start them off in the small round yard with a soft rubber bit and " ride them from the buckle " in other words a loose rein. Anyway given that racehorses are ridden in races with a jockey perched on their wither and this problem is caused by the horse trying to avoid the bit I don't know what the answer is. A straight non jointed snaffle bit with a cross over nose band maybe?
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Ballarat
Status: Online
Points: 31429
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 11:58am
I know they can't be used in most disciplines but from a training viewpoint I found the kindest method of control was a straight or 1/2 moon bit with Kineton noseband as, adjusted correctly, most pressure is taken on the nose.
Jointed bits when presure's applied, cause the joint to form a upside down V which badly bruises the mouth roof. Closing the mouth with a crossover compounds the problem as they can't open their mouth to evade the pressure/pain. However, a straight bit avoids this.
Tongue pressure too is a little recognised problem but there are now bits to get around this e.g. many Myler ones.

Resistance

  • Horses can communicate only through relaxation or evasion
  • Horses produce 5 to 7 gallons of saliva per day, most during exercise, - and need to swallow it
  • Pressure on the equine (and human) tongue prevents swallowing, hence resistance to the bit
  • Tongue is a communication medium, - must be freed from pressure when horse obeys signal

Myler Bits

  • Pressure as comfortable as possible and non-damaging (eg. unlike single-jointed snaffle)
  • All mouthpieces are curved and some have ports, to give tongue room to swallow
  • Centre barrel protects tongue from getting pinched in the joint and allows ISM (see below)
  • Hooks (slots) in cheek rings can be used to hold bit off horse's tongue unless pressure is engaged
  • Wide choice of mouthpieces ensures each individual horse is bitted for its own specific needs

Barrel or Sleeve

  • Prevents the tongue getting pinched in the joint, unlike "traditional" jointed bits
  • Spreads the centre pressure across a wide area
  • Each half of the mouthpiece is of equal length, unlike "trad" snaffles (hold one up by joint & look)
  • Limits the degree of collapse of jointed bits, preventing 'nutcracker' action of "traditional" snaffles
  • Allows Independent Side Movement (ISM) - see below

THE BARREL IS A SLEEVE TO PROTECT THE HORSE'S TONGUE FROM THE JOINT, IT IS NOT A ROLLER.

The Tongue

The tongue is a large, strong muscle containing literally thousands of highly sensitive nerves.  It is used primarily for eating, drinking and swallowing.

Horse's tongues can vary enormously in size and thickness. A very wide and fleshy tongue may be seen squishing out between the horse's teeth when the side of the upper lip is raised. It is important to assess the size and condition of the tongue, not least to establish how much room there is in the horse's mouth to accommodate any kind of bit. A very large tongue may greatly restrict the ability of the bit to meet and therefore act on the bars.

Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
Back to Top
PhillipC View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 449
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PhillipC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 9:48pm
I think we have come a long way in bit design over the last 10 or 20 years and there are many bits out there now that are far nicer for our horses, regardless of the discipline they are used for.

The double jointed bits reduce the 'nutcracker' action of a single joint and allow room for the tongue to be accomodated.  The Myler bits which have the barrel in the centre look to be the softest to me.  There are many others now available for differing tongue problems.  I have one (the brand is KK from Germany) that has a lozenge in the middle, but within that lozenge it has a narrow roller fitted, so the horse can actually 'play' with the bit.  It was good for a horse who was particularly sensitive and made him less tense when he was working.  

I have used both a Kineton noseband and a straight bar (mullen mouth bit), but I don't think I used them both at the same time.

With the Kineton, it's very important to have rubber cheekers on the bit and have those between the bit and the metal curves of the noseband.  Without them, I think there is far too much risk of when the noseband comes into play (particularly with a jointed bit), of the sensitive lip tissue being pinched as the noseband closes.

I did ride a particularly strong horse cross country in a mullen mouth snaffle and had good results.  The horse didn't seem to like a joint of any kind in his mouth, but with a fixed mouthpiece he was much more relaxed and manageable.  Because he was strong (I only managed to buy him as no one else could hold him!), when I had his teeth done, the dentist told me that there were grooves in his jaw bone from the straight bit, so another thing to watch out for.

A bit that I haven't tried and I think logically sounds very good to make the horse comfortable, give them no need to suck their tongue back is the Winning Tongue Bit.  It's jointed, but limited in it's movement, so once pressure is applied to the reins it resembles a straight bar or mullen mouth bit.

OK, so the topic it tongue ties.  If they are used because of the horse pulling his tongue back and displacing the soft palate, try a WTB.  It may just work to resolve the problem. 

http://www.equinehaven.com.au
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 36760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 8:00pm

Study: Tongue Ties Appear to Benefit Racehorses

Researchers found that applying tongue ties appears beneficial to racehorses and, if done correctly, does not appear to cause horses stress or pain.

By Christa Lesté-Lasserre, MA    |    May 3, 2014    |    Article

Study: Tongue Ties Appear to Benefit Racehorses
Chalmers said applying tongue ties could be beneficial to racehorses and 
Photo: Anne M. Eberhardt/The Horse

For more than a century, racehorse trainers have tied horses’ tongues to the front and side when they work or race. The purpose, trainers say, is to reduce breathing noises and help the horses perform better. But, until now, researchers have never confirmed that the tongue tie actually has a physical effect on the upper respiratory structures.

“My aim was to objectively assess if tongue ties contribute to upper airway stability,” said Heather J. Chalmers, DVM, Dipl. ACVR, assistant professor of radiology at the University of Guelph's Ontario Veterinary College in Ontario, Canada. “Based on my research, I think they do.”

Chalmers and colleagues investigated 12 Standardbred racehorses with and without tongue ties at a standstill. The team applied the tongue ties using a standard industry procedure, which involves pulling the tongue as forward as possible and tying it close to its base around the lower jaw with a nylon strap. The tongue is then pulled out to the side of the horse’s mouth. The horses did not appear uncomfortable during the procedure, Chalmers said.

Then the team took ultrasound images of five different regions of the upper respiratory tract, including the positions of several bones and cartilages responsible for supporting the upper airway, attaching the windpipe to the back of the throat, and joining the tongue to the skull. The team measured these structures' positions and their relationship to each other using an ultrasound technique that Chalmers developed in earlier work.

The researchers found that when the horses' tongues were tied, the upper respiratory structures' positions were more compatible with upper airway stability, Chalmers said. Their main findings concerned the thyroid cartilage and the basihyoid bone, a small bone in the hyoid apparatus; the hyoid apparatus is a set of bones that maintains the larynx (“voice box”) in place. In their study, Chalmers and her associates found that the basihyoid bone's lingual process—a bony projection that goes from the basihyoid bone to the root of the tongue—was deeper, and the thyroid cartilage was lower when the tongue tie was applied. Previous research by Chalmers and others suggests that these structural positions allow the horse to breathe better.

In particular, she said, horses suffering from intermittent dorsal displacement of the soft palate (iDDSP) might benefit from a tongue tie, as her previous work revealed a link between iDDSP and basihyoid position. IDDSP occurs when the soft palate displaces dorsally (moves abnormally in an upward direction) so the end of the structure rests above the epiglottis instead of below, thereby obstructing air flow.

The practice of tongue tying, however, has led to significant welfare debates, and in some countries the practice is illegal during the winter months because of the risk of frostbite to the tongue. In Switzerland, tongue tying is illegal year-round.

But Chalmers said the practice might actually be beneficial to racehorses and, if done correctly, does not appear to cause the horses stress or pain. “The horses do not even react when the tongue tie is applied; it does not seem to bother them in my experience,” she said.

Additionally, “some would say that tongue ties make racing safer by ensuring that the horse does not flip his tongue above the bit, thereby ensuring that the driver or rider can maintain control of the horse during the race,” she added.

The study, "The use of a tongue tie alters laryngohyoid position in the standing horse," was published in theEquine Veterinary Journal



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
3blindmice View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 17948
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 8:18pm
Wonder what a proper analysis of the stats would say wrt perfoirmance. Percentage of "correctly applied" tongue ties would be interesting in itself.


Au 20% V UK 5%. Are Au horses 4 time softer- lol ?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.