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Franchises

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

I own a franchise.Embarrassed

how is the film developing business going LOL

Hahaha!LOL 

Very clever, but no ... no, it's in the renewable energy area!Shocked


Yep ... we go around with a ute and a shovel and pick up all of the dead bats and raptors that have been killed by wind turbines - almost a million a year in Australia alone!Tongue
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 8:56pm
I'm just doing a Whale & overtaking every thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 10:53am
Are franchisees entrepreneurs or simply fairly clueless people who need guidance in order to pursue their dream of owning a business ?

Having said that if they have little experience or knowledge of business it makes sense to be mentored, as long as too much is not paid in fees and commission to the franchisor. Needs to be researched thoroughly before taking the plunge.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 11:52am
A Choice study found that you can become a mortgage broker in 10 days doing an online course. Not exactly taxing, multiple choice questions, you get 3 chances to answer the questions and the main emphasis of the course is selling, absolute joke Ouch

These salesmen advise people on important financial decisions and there is less regulation than is involved in running a falafel van Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Are franchisees entrepreneurs or simply fairly clueless people who need guidance in order to pursue their dream of owning a business ?




Franchise owners in most cases are for all intents and purposes little more than employees. They have essentially paid money to be employed as a “store” manager by the head office. Yes there are differences but that’s basically what it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 2:57pm
Really ? How much more or less do store managers get when sales increase or decrease ? Do store managers hire & fire or are they "advised" by the H/O HR department ? Do store managers have any say in selling the business ? - do they reap financial reward / loss if their decision is not timely ? Do store managers decide staff numbers or are they "advised" by H/O number cruncher's ? Do staff see Store Managers & Franchisee Owners in the same light ? Do Union representatives see them in the same light ? Do store managers have supplied back-ups when they are sick or on holidays ? I could go on. I do agree there are some Franchise Business models that lean towards what you say. Even so , there are fundamental differences that differentiates the two.
Wouldn't be dead for quids !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 3:08pm
In saying that i would be very wary entering a Franchise Agreement. However, i would be more likely to do that than apply for a Store Managers job.
Wouldn't be dead for quids !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Really ? How much more or less do store managers get when sales increase or decrease ? Do store managers hire & fire or are they "advised" by the H/O HR department ? Do store managers have any say in selling the business ? - do they reap financial reward / loss if their decision is not timely ? Do store managers decide staff numbers or are they "advised" by H/O number cruncher's ? Do staff see Store Managers & Franchisee Owners in the same light ? Do Union representatives see them in the same light ? Do store managers have supplied back-ups when they are sick or on holidays ? I could go on. I do agree there are some Franchise Business models that lean towards what you say. Even so , there are fundamental differences that differentiates the two.





If you had the ability to read my post properly you would note that I said there are differences but basically I am correct. The main difference is as you say in how each makes money. A franchise owner more directly sees the benefit of the work they put in and makes more based on revenue. A store manager will be paid a salary but they too could quite possibly benefit from increased revenue in the form of a bonus. But essentially they are both required to follow the directions of head office. They do not have full autonomy with respect to how to run the business operates and do not get to make any meaningful decisions. They are given instructions and need to follow them.

So yes, the description of them being little more than someone who has paid to become an employee, while not 100% correct is still essentially accurate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 3:49pm
Depends how you define "meaningful decisions". A franchisee is typically better rewarded financially for increased sales than a Store Manager ever would be in the form of a "bonus". This leads to a total different approach from staff selection, to staff training & through to staff rewards. I can walk into a Australia Post shop & know almost immediately if it is a franchise operation or a head office run outlet. Staff attitude & outlet presentationis usually a dead giveaway. The reason TABs went from head office to Agent run years ago was simple - Agents had a track record of increasing sales by focusing on key customers vs treating all customers the same. They were also better at minimising costs. Its the same philosophy trying to compare commission based sales performance vs wages based. The outcomes differ "bigly". 
Wouldn't be dead for quids !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 3:51pm
No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.
Wouldn't be dead for quids !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.

that is what many THINK  they are buying, then they are hit with the reality, extra commissions, fee for "training ' updates, the fact that they can only make a profit if they underpay staff , false promises of leads and assistance from head office etc etc. Often too late by then , many sell at an enormous loss or just walk away. And  many who buy franchises are clueless about business, think because it is a franchise it is guaranteed to make money 
There are pitfalls with any business of course, best to start your own if you are capable 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.




Exactly! Agree entirely! Perfectly valid way to make a living. Just don’t kid yourself that you are a business owner. You’re not, you’re an employee.
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100% - a lot of dud franchises around.
Wouldn't be dead for quids !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.




Exactly! Agree entirely! Perfectly valid way to make a living. Just don’t kid yourself that you are a business owner. You’re not, you’re an employee.
Well no your not. If you were you would be receiving superannuation, long service leave & other Award entitlements. Been a few test cases where that has been taken to a court for determination - never in the favor of the Franchisee as i understand it. The major sticking point is staffing. If you basically do it all yourself you may have a case. If you employ staff yourself you don't.
Wouldn't be dead for quids !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

No doubt. But none of that changes the fact that they are essentially employees. Sure, they have more skin in the game but they are told how to operate the business. They do not have free reign to operate how they choose like a real business owner.
Well if you want to significantly change the way the business is run you don't buy a franchise. That's what you are paying for - a proven way to make a return. Just start your own version & save a quid if you want major points of difference.




Exactly! Agree entirely! Perfectly valid way to make a living. Just don’t kid yourself that you are a business owner. You’re not, you’re an employee.
Well no your not. If you were you would be receiving superannuation, long service leave & other Award entitlements. Been a few test cases where that has been taken to a court for determination - never in the favor of the Franchisee as i understand it. The major sticking point is staffing. If you basically do it all yourself you may have a case. If you employ staff yourself you don't.




I should have known you would have taken “employee” to be literal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:37pm
In the eyes of the Federal Awards your are a business owner. In the eyes of your Employees you are a business owner. In the eyes of the ATO you are a business owner. In the eyes of the Courts you are a business owner. In the eyes of the Franchiser you are a business owner. But in the eyes of E&E you are an employee ! Fair enough LOL
Wouldn't be dead for quids !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

In the eyes of the Federal Awards your are a business owner. In the eyes of your Employees you are a business owner. In the eyes of the ATO you are a business owner. In the eyes of the Courts you are a business owner. In the eyes of the Franchiser you are a business owner. But in the eyes of E&E you are an employee ! Fair enough LOL



A business owner in name only. You are an employee in the sense that you have a boss who tells you what you can and can’t do. They tell you how to operate the franchise within set requirements. Legally you might be an owner but for all intents and purposes you are an employee who can be discarded like any other if you do not do your job the way you have been told.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:49pm
No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go



Why would I want to buy a business and have to operate it like an employee? Forget it! Prefer to go my own way.

That’s right, they supply you with a bunch of things, one of which is instructions on how the business is to be operated. Don’t follow the instructions and they can give you the boot. Just like an employee.

You’re right, it shouldn’t be that hard to understand. But I’m not surprised.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go



Why would I want to buy a business and have to operate it like an employee? Forget it! Prefer to go my own way.

That’s right, they supply you with a bunch of things, one of which is instructions on how the business is to be operated. Don’t follow the instructions and they can give you the boot. Just like an employee.

You’re right, it shouldn’t be that hard to understand. But I’m not surprised.

I don't think Maccas would stand for a franchisee selling falafels Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 5:28pm
Its just contractual law - correct E&E. You read the contract- if you don't like what you read & want to sell falafels instead of chicken burgers - guess what - you don't sign it. You go away & set up the business as you like to sell as many as many falafels as you can. If you do sign it - you are a business owner - entitled to make or lose money according to the contact you read & signed off on. Not an employee - a business owner
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Its just contractual law - correct E&E. You read the contract- if you don't like what you read & want to sell falafels instead of chicken burgers - guess what - you don't sign it. You go away & set up the business as you like to sell as many as many falafels as you can. If you do sign it - you are a business owner - entitled to make or lose money according to the contact you read & signed off on. Not an employee - a business owner



A business owner functioning as an employee.
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Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

Funny, I was thinking that when I read your posts 1,1.

Franchisees bear the risk of running a business, but they are dictated to by HO in how they run their “business”
If you were unfortunate enough to buy say a Dominos franchise, you are restricted as to what products you offer, what price you charge, where you source your raw materials, how your shop looks, your uniform, what promotional campaigns you wish to run.
Etc etc etc....

I know plenty of middle managers with more autonomy than most franchisees.

But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....
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Hey Rusty - let you in on a little secret. Its not me you have to convince that "technically they are self-employed". Have a chat to your good mate E&E - he seems to think they are getting screwed over when they have a contract spelling out exactly what the deal is. Anyhow at least WE agree - they are "technically business owners".Sheesh what is it with you lot - thick as thieves !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

Funny, I was thinking that when I read your posts 1,1.

Franchisees bear the risk of running a business, but they are dictated to by HO in how they run their “business”
If you were unfortunate enough to buy say a Dominos franchise, you are restricted as to what products you offer, what price you charge, where you source your raw materials, how your shop looks, your uniform, what promotional campaigns you wish to run.
Etc etc etc....

I know plenty of middle managers with more autonomy than most franchisees.

But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....





Exactly! In terms of the level of autonomy they have and the amount they are dictated to they are glorified employees. Whether that’s a good deal or not will depend on the franchise. Probably for the many clueless who get involved it’s a good deal as they don’t have to make any real decisions. Right OneOne?
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How about a compromise position that hopefully satisfies everyone. 

Franchisees are a business operated by the business owner. A contract between the Franchiser & Franchisee dictates the terms & conditions of how the business is operated. The nature of the contract restricts the entrepreneurship of the business owner - & limits the ability to operate outside the agreed conditions. 

Feel free to add on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

Funny, I was thinking that when I read your posts 1,1.

Franchisees bear the risk of running a business, but they are dictated to by HO in how they run their “business”
If you were unfortunate enough to buy say a Dominos franchise, you are restricted as to what products you offer, what price you charge, where you source your raw materials, how your shop looks, your uniform, what promotional campaigns you wish to run.
Etc etc etc....

I know plenty of middle managers with more autonomy than most franchisees.

But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....





Exactly! In terms of the level of autonomy they have and the amount they are dictated to they are glorified employees. Whether that’s a good deal or not will depend on the franchise. Probably for the many clueless who get involved it’s a good deal as they don’t have to make any real decisions. Right OneOne?
I am not a franchisee - & never have been. They pay money for many of the decisions to be made for them. That's what you are failing to understand. It isnt any secret
Wouldn't be dead for quids !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

Originally posted by rusty nails rusty nails wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

No - wrong. You are a business owner. You have paid money to be supplied all those things you mentioned in the hope it improves your chances of making money. If you don't want those things - don't become a franchisee. Sheesh - its shouldn't be that hard to understand. Are you a jilted franchisee operator or something E&E ? Time to let go

Funny, I was thinking that when I read your posts 1,1.

Franchisees bear the risk of running a business, but they are dictated to by HO in how they run their “business”
If you were unfortunate enough to buy say a Dominos franchise, you are restricted as to what products you offer, what price you charge, where you source your raw materials, how your shop looks, your uniform, what promotional campaigns you wish to run.
Etc etc etc....

I know plenty of middle managers with more autonomy than most franchisees.

But yeah technically they are self employed, so thanks for telling us something we all knew, a dozen times.....





Exactly! In terms of the level of autonomy they have and the amount they are dictated to they are glorified employees. Whether that’s a good deal or not will depend on the franchise. Probably for the many clueless who get involved it’s a good deal as they don’t have to make any real decisions. Right OneOne?
I am not a franchisee - & never have been. They pay money for many of the decisions to be made for them. That's what you are failing to understand. It isnt any secret




No I understand it perfectly. They operate as glorified employees. And that’s fine if that’s what they want to spend their money to do!
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At last Thumbs Up

Obviously we should define "glorified" - but maybe another day.
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