Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now |
|
Cox Plate 2019 |
Post Reply | Page 123 7> |
Author | ||
TIGER
Champion Joined: 23 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 8533 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 28 Oct 2019 at 5:43pm |
|
Thought Mystic Journey ran well considering where the rest of the field finished and how she is not a 2000mtr horse
Stick her to mile races and she will make plenty of cash for her connections |
||
EAD
|
||
Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Closer than 3 of the 4 who led them up...
|
||
Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45815 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pretty fair article, however I can't agree with: Mystic Journey was ....ultimately disappointing.
Firstly, she finished closer than the four who led them up, but more importantly it's clear that she's a "miler" who's competitive in Gp 1 races over 2000m on class alone. Given continuing soundness will win more than her share of 1600m Group races before she retires imo.
|
||
djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Timeform Recap of the 2019 Cox Plate won by Japanese mare Lys Gracieux.Lys Gracieux won the first Winx-free Cox Plate in four years and she did it in the sort of style that the great mare would have been proud of. Style, sure, though not quite the substance. Lys Gracieux comes away from the Valley rated 125+ which sits below all four of Winx's Cox Plate wins of which her third, achieved when turning away a gritty, well-ridden Humidor, draws the most parallels. Winx was rated 134, and ran to 133+ when winning the 2016 Cox Plate by eight lengths. That's a different world to where Lys Gracieux resides but Lys still packs far too much punch for what remains in Australia's PWE (Post Winx Era). In the PWE key Cox Plate trials have been going to horses rated 118-120. Good horses, but that sort of horse has long been fodder for Winx, and it was fodder for Lys Gracieux on Saturday. But it's not all doom and gloom down under. The horse that dragged such a performance out of Lys Gracieux is a beacon of hope. Castelvecchio, last season's 121-rated Champion Two-Year-Old alongside Microphone, stepped out of his age group and up to the plate, posting a 124 rating in a well-run race against global formlines. A good overall time underpinned those global formlines and Castelvecchio was able to finish much closer to Lys Gracieux than a host of Japan's biggest stars could in June's Takarazuka Kinen where the mare won by a margin bettered only by megastars Gold Ship and Deep Impact in modern history. To the winner goes the spoils in racing, and punters want a payout before heaping too much praise, but Castelvecchio posted a performance of note here and paid a fine compliment to the similarly promising Shadow Hero in the process. The three-year-old sprinters are a hot division this season and have naturally stolen the headlines, but the middle distance crew are shaping up as well. Shadow Hero posted a strong overall time when winning the Spring Champion and he did it with late strength. There's some meat on the bones there, and Thought Of You has seemingly emerged out of nowhere to be snapping at his heels courtesy of a very warm performance in his Caulfield Derby Trial. The Everest dragged Arcadia Queen away from the Cox Plate but she is rated 121 over 1800m and has relatively fresh legs. So perhaps the cupboard isn't as bare as it seems - we've just spread the ingredients too thin... The best of the local defence before the Cox Plate, judged on Timeform ratings, came from Mystic Journey and Te Akau Shark - Te Akau Shark claimed as Australian under the Crowded House rule - and Te Akau Shark can be considered another beacon of hope. He didn't match his big Epsom peak stretched out in trip but he did enough to think that it's representative of his true talent level, running on to third (admittedly with a fairly sweet run inside horses and sectional analysis will show that he wasn't too far back to be severely disadvantaged) from last having conceded plenty early from a wide draw. He was awkwardly placed for his first try at the trip but running on by a well-ridden Magic Wand, coming off an Irish Champion second (where Lys Gracieux's old sparring partner Deirdre got stitched up by the locals and in another scenario goes mighty close to winning) is nothing to sneeze at. Again, the promise of the 'local' now has the backing of a global formline and if he is to press on to a Mackinnon he would go there with a better set-up to confirm his place at the pointy end of the Aussie weight-for-age ranks. Mystic Journey was solid, but ultimately disappointing. That said, she may be better suited by a drop back to a mile, and perhaps the very slow early tempo of the Turnbull, off a fairly light prep all round, left her lacking for match practice on the day. |
||
reductio ad absurdum
|
||
Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21836 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
||
djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
O'Sullivan: Lys no match for WinxDaniel O'Sullivan@TRBHorseRacing 1:27pm As impressive as the win of Lys Gracieux’s was, it wasn't in the same territory as Winx with the champion mare rating between one and 3.7 lengths superior across her four-year reign. Lys Gracieux's Cox Plate win on Saturday returned a 108 WFA Performance Rating. By comparison, here are Winx's four Cox Plate ratings: 2015: 113 2016: 115.5 2017: 110 2081: 111 It's easy to get carried away in the euphoria of a stunning victory like Lys Gracieux produced, but that's where a consistent and objective rating process can help to provide some context. When I assess the speed performance of Saturday's Cox Plate in conjunction with the past form and ratings of key runners, there's no objective reason to rate Lys Gracieux any higher than 108. The time and sectionals were strong, but they certainly weren't what I would call world class. The style of the win has some extra merit and it's likely that if Lys Gracieux found a position up near the lead in the early stages (like she did last start in Japan) then I'm sure she wins the Cox Plate by further and rates even higher, perhaps challenging that 110 mark or a touch better, but we can only assess what happened on the day. That's not to knock the win in any way, it was outstanding and a serious Group 1 quality performance, but it's important to keep some perspective. The ratings based assessors like myself have had Winx well and truly established as one of the top horses in the world for a number of years. Few would argue with that. Prior to Saturday Lys Gracieux didn't have that standing, so just because she was an impressive winner of the Cox Plate, it doesn't suddenly elevate her into the discussion with a mare like Winx. While it's unreasonable to compare her to Winx, Saturday's 108 rating win is totally dominant over anything we can foresee an Australian trained middle distance WFA horses producing at the moment and that's why she was so impressive. In the last four seasons, there has only been four Australian-trained horses outside of Winx produce a rating of 108 or better; Hartnell: 111 in his 2016 Turnbull Stakes win Humidor: 109.4 when 2nd to Winx in the 2017 Cox Plate (the lowest rating of her four wins) Arcadia Queen: 108.5 winning the 2018 Kingston Town Stakes Jameka: 108 when she won the 2017 2400m G1 WFA BMW in Sydney by 6.5 lengths (over Humidor) Our middle distance WFA races over the past couple of seasons have typically been won in the 103 to 105 rating range, which is short of what I call genuine Group 1 standard, so commentary about our current crop of WFA horses being below par are very much accurate. It's important to keep this in mind when interpreting the visual impressiveness of Lys Gracieux's win. She beat horses that aren't of genuine Group 1 WFA standard. On the positive side for Australian and New Zealand racing, both Castelvecchio and Te Akau Shark are new kids on the block, so with the benefit of their new found peaks this Spring, they will hopefully return in the Autumn and add some much needed credibility to our WFA ranks. |
||
reductio ad absurdum
|
||
djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What do you suppose you did not do there Jamal ?
|
||
reductio ad absurdum
|
||
Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
N racing.com Open in the app FREE - In Google Play OPEN toggle menu racing.com Search M Today's Racing i Home Racing S News S Video S Calendar S Profiles & Stats S Clubs S Owner S Spring Racing Carnival d v Racing Today's Racing Latest Results Watch Live Racing Racing Calendar VIC Jumpout Replays Jockey Premiership Trainer Premiership Horses - Most Wins Racing+ Download the Racing.com App Club Events and Memberships v News Latest News International News Latest Podcasts Latest Videos News Updates Featured Get On Form Analyst Sectional Stars v Clubs Country Racing Victoria Melbourne Racing Club Moonee Valley Racing Club Racing Victoria Victoria Racing Club v Owner News and Updates Racing Photos Planner VOBIS Become an Owner Activate Gold Card Resources v Video Latest Videos Latest TV Shows Racing.com Features News Updates Social Videos Racing Stories TV Shows After The Last BetEasy Racing Show Country Catch Up Get On Grassroots Group 1 Glory Insider Trading Off The Bit Sectional Stars Spring Contenders That's Racing The Analyser The Good Things The Trial Show The Wrap Three Wide No Cover Trackwork Racing Latest Race Replays Latest Trial Replays Drone Vision Race Replays Post Race Interviews Stewards Vision Victorian Racing South Australian Racing Racing to Win Featured Documentaries Spring Racing Carnival Warrnambool Carnival Karaka Sales Magic Millions Inglis Premier Jump Off v Calendar Racing Calendar Featured Calendars VIC Group Races SA Group Races Australian Group 1's Hong Kong Group Races VIC Jumpouts Calendar v Profiles & Stats Horse Profiles Jockey Profiles Trainer Profiles International Spring Horse Profiles racing plus Watch live • The Wrap - Sunday Edition Log in Sign up Lys Gracieux Lys Gracieux wins the Cox Plate (Image: Racing Photos) O'Sullivan: Lys no match for Winx Racing ArticleDaniel O'Sullivan@TRBHorseRacing1:27pmO ,( As impressive as the win of Lys Gracieux’s was, it wasn't in the same territory as Winx with the champion mare rating between one and 3.7 lengths superior across her four-year reign. Lys Gracieux's Cox Plate win on Saturday returned a 108 WFA Performance Rating. By comparison, here are Winx's four Cox Plate ratings: 2015: 113 2016: 115.5 2017: 110 2081: 111 It's easy to get carried away in the euphoria of a stunning victory like Lys Gracieux produced, but that's where a consistent and objective rating process can help to provide some context. When I assess the speed performance of Saturday's Cox Plate in conjunction with the past form and ratings of key runners, there's no objective reason to rate Lys Gracieux any higher than 108. The time and sectionals were strong, but they certainly weren't what I would call world class. The style of the win has some extra merit and it's likely that if Lys Gracieux found a position up near the lead in the early stages (like she did last start in Japan) then I'm sure she wins the Cox Plate by further and rates even higher, perhaps challenging that 110 mark or a touch better, but we can only assess what happened on the day. That's not to knock the win in any way, it was outstanding and a serious Group 1 quality performance, but it's important to keep some perspective. The ratings based assessors like myself have had Winx well and truly established as one of the top horses in the world for a number of years. Few would argue with that. Prior to Saturday Lys Gracieux didn't have that standing, so just because she was an impressive winner of the Cox Plate, it doesn't suddenly elevate her into the discussion with a mare like Winx. While it's unreasonable to compare her to Winx, Saturday's 108 rating win is totally dominant over anything we can foresee an Australian trained middle distance WFA horses producing at the moment and that's why she was so impressive. In the last four seasons, there has only been four Australian-trained horses outside of Winx produce a rating of 108 or better; Hartnell: 111 in his 2016 Turnbull Stakes win Humidor: 109.4 when 2nd to Winx in the 2017 Cox Plate (the lowest rating of her four wins) Arcadia Queen: 108.5 winning the 2018 Kingston Town Stakes Jameka: 108 when she won the 2017 2400m G1 WFA BMW in Sydney by 6.5 lengths (over Humidor) Our middle distance WFA races over the past couple of seasons have typically been won in the 103 to 105 rating range, which is short of what I call genuine Group 1 standard, so commentary about our current crop of WFA horses being below par are very much accurate. It's important to keep this in mind when interpreting the visual impressiveness of Lys Gracieux's win. She beat horses that aren't of genuine Group 1 WFA standard. On the positive side for Australian and New Zealand racing, both Castelvecchio and Te Akau Shark are new kids on the block, so with the benefit of their new found peaks this Spring, they will hopefully return in the Autumn and add some much needed credibility to our WFA ranks. You May Also Like 42 left in race for Melbourne Cup 1:07pm Vow And Declare Cup quest rests with Irish trio 27 Oct, 2019 Homesman ridden by Ben Melham before the 2019 Cox Plate (Image: Racing Photos) New rider required for Cup favourite 26 Oct, 2019 Glen Boss Recommended Videos Racing To Win - 27.10.19 28 Oct, 2019 Q 4 in Forty - Reg Fleming & So You Think 25 Oct, 2019 Q The Valley R10 Preview & Tips - Get On 25 Oct, 2019 Q About Careers Contact Feedback FAQsResponsible Wagering Terms & Conditions Privacy Policy © 2019 Racing Victoria Limited (RV) and other parties working with it. VIC and SA racing materials, including fields, form and results, is subject to copyright which is owned respectively by RV and TRSA and other parties working with them. |
||
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
|
||
djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
Never mind I outlayed the outlandish sign up fee.
|
||
reductio ad absurdum
|
||
djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Can somebody copy and paste that article please ?
|
||
reductio ad absurdum
|
||
djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
And it seems I have reach my free quota limit for the month. |
||
reductio ad absurdum
|
||
djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Our WFA horses are perfectly fine. There is massive depth in our WFA ranks. Where we lack depth is in the group 1 department at anything above 1600m. |
||
reductio ad absurdum
|
||
Xavier
Champion Joined: 27 Jul 2016 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 3660 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
so true.
|
||
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
|
||
TIGER
Champion Joined: 23 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 8533 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Unless they are WA horses
|
||
EAD
|
||
Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15522 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
We don't 'get offended' Jamal, most people are just tired of you popping up and banging on ad nauseam about how bad our horses are here at 2000+, we are all aware of it, how could anyone not be? If it bothers you that much why not do something more about it than banging on about it every day on here? |
||
Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
From David Gately on twitter: Did this with Golden Rose (and copped abuse) NOTE: not drawing conclusions, merely stating facts as. I think it’s interesting!
WINX- 2018 Cox Plate (good-3) Runs 2-03.47 (home 47.2/ 35.46/ 11.92 off 1-27.85 1st:1440m LYS GRACIEUX- (good-4) 2-04.21 (46.6/ 35.2/ 11.72 off 1-28.38 |
||
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
|
||
Donald Hiltonson
Champion Joined: 21 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 456 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Mate dunno if you’ll offend anyone but you’ll surely bore everyone to tears |
||
Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31448 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
While reading that article I was thinking,what are this gooses credentials because he appears to be ignorant of the wfa scale.
Chief soccer writer It figures. |
||
An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
||
Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Bloody oath 100 per cent....well said |
||
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
|
||
Xavier
Champion Joined: 27 Jul 2016 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 3660 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Maybe it’s the fact you say the same thing over and over again
|
||
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
|
||
Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8684 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Finally. Someone who isn't blinded. Unlike most biased Aussie racing supporters. It's been a weak era depth wise at 2000m to 3200m in Aussie racing for about 5 years (maybe more). I'll continue to call it as I see it and if people on here don't like it then that's their problem. I'm here to express an opinion...like everyone else is. It seems when I express an opinion about Aussie racing depth wise at 2000m t ok 3200m...people get offended. I suggest people take their blinkers off. As Jidgeholden has said - I haven't even gone hard enough...maybe I should but of course that will offend most on here .. |
||
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
|
||
kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The article is correct but his obsession with weight of castelvecchio is ridiculous and unnecessary.
As an industry what needs to be exposed is the way the horse has become disposable. As highlighted in the racehorse slaughter issue, part of the issue is the big and small studs making up crap and getting large books. Then colluding with each other to increase yearling prices. All to increase their own wealth whilst chasing the huge Sydney prize money over the sprints /miles. Then the big guys buy all the middle distance /staying trips trying to win the cups. There needs to be an expose into the breeding corruption and collusion and for breeders to start supporting stallions with stamina and classic ability like dundeel, syt, savabeel etc. |
||
Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
||
JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
I just read you post again. “Relatively ok”
OMG. Priceless!!! |
||
JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Dunno. A few more? I’ll let you know when I’m done. That ok with you?
|
||
Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45815 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
If I read this reality repeated yet again, possibly for the 1,387th time, I'm going to cut my bloody wrists.
How many f*cking posts does it take to make a fairly obvious point.
ps Judge and Jamal are responsible for about 1,362 of this endless repetitition. pss Austalasia still did relatively ok to post 2nd, 3rd and 5th. Whoops sorry, repeated myself for the first time just then. |
||
JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Jamal is absolutely correct, but he hasn’t gone nearly hard enough.
|
||
JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Weak and a decade too late, but refreshing to hear someone in the racing media call this out:
“Quite simply, the Cox Plate highlighted, as earlier results this spring have, how threadbare Australia's weight-for-age ranks are, certainly amongst horses who compete at 1600-metres and above. And it's important for us to get a reality check from time to time, especially as those who follow the sport have to wade through a blizzard of hyperbole from big bloodstock groups and breeding operations about how wonderful their latest stallion or product is.” https://www.theage.com.au/sport/racing/lys-gracieux-hammers-home-a-truth-few-want-to-hear-20191026-p534j3.html |
||
Xavier
Champion Joined: 27 Jul 2016 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 3660 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
Give us a break Jamal.
Are you ever happy? All you do is whinge and complain. |
||
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
|
||
JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I’m agreeing with you, mate.
|
||
TIGER
Champion Joined: 23 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 8533 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
To bring her here for a Cox Plate would be crazy, runs in two races here maybe and makes 2.5 million or run at home in 4 to 5 races and makes three times that without the stress of international travel and quarantine
|
||
EAD
|
||
Post Reply | Page 123 7> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |