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Aboriginal Man on "Australia Day" |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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So your point about whether or not they considered it “ownership” is a rather silly red herring.
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oneonesit
Champion Joined: 06 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 37210 |
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All countries have been "invaded" over the years. Only a matter of how far you want to go back. The Mongols made mince meat out of the Hungarians in the 1200's !
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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They did indeed
Say what you like about the Mongols, they were brutally honest (amongst other thing). Doubt they would’ve tried that one on with the Hungarians- “C’mon, Lazlo, it’s not like you really OWNED it”. |
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oneonesit
Champion Joined: 06 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 37210 |
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waggamick
Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7140 |
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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exactly who was that and did the Aborigines expand to occupy most of the habitable land in Australia destroying anyone in their way , don't think so
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31448 |
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And on that day the Hungarians celebrate their national day. |
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waggamick
Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7140 |
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exactly who was that and did the Aborigines expand to occupy most of the habitable land in Australia destroying anyone in their way , don't think so Why is that so hard to believe? 'Destroying anyone' is a touch emotive. I would think that the previous group would either move on to other land or resist the newcomers. Also pretty sure that other newcomers would've taken virgin turf if it was the easiest way to go. The aboriginal industry feeds us the Utopian, peace loving, one-with-the-environment myth to create as big a contrast to modern living as they can. The whole idea is to create a guilt-shame nexus. Pre-settlement life was harsh...especially women(from a 21st century perspective)..and can and tribal skirmishes, battles and wars would've been common. Survival was a battle itself with the environment...not for all..but it would've been for inland nomadic groups. By dwelling on a mythical Utopia activists use 'culture' as a cure all. This does a great disservice to young aboriginals. Rather than assimilate and make the most of the opportunities that modern civilisation can offer they are constantly bombarded from without that reversion to culture will justify their isolation and lack of opportunity. |
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oneonesit
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Redemption
Champion Joined: 09 Apr 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5387 |
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LOL. Again. Uneducated garbage. The Port Phillip Council, inner east Melbourne, was built on a natural spring, which was cherished by Aboriginals. The anglos ruined a natural spring, just to set up camp. one example of thousands. Extend that to Dandenong. same thing happened.
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oneonesit
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Fact is - there is a percentage of Australians - both indigenous & non-indigenous - that will never be satisfied regardless of whats done.
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waggamick
Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7140 |
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My point exactly...the Hungarians had a formal documented system of land OWNERSHIP. They never claimed a custodial status or that the 'land owned them'. Yes..The Mongols did INVADE Hungary. Already in the medieval ages land ownership in Hungary differed from the customary
arrangements in western Europe. Numerous elements of the customs that had prevailed at the
time when the Hungarian state was established around ca. 1000 AD continue to shape public
perceptions of this issue. Ever since the reign of the first Hungarian king, Saint Stephen, the
right bestow land on those deemed loyal was always a royal privilege. It was illegal for anyone
but the king to sell or divide land.
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waggamick
Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7140 |
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And that's the truth!
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waggamick
Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7140 |
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Why would 'the anglos' destroy a natural water source to set up a camp? That's a weird thing to say!
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oneonesit
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Let me ask this question - & i seriously dont know the answer - & hoping others can. From a big picture perspective - are indigenous communities any better off today than they were 20 years ago ? Health, crime, social , financial & so on ? Just how would changing Australia Day, or changing the constitution improve things at that level ? I mean its not as if a lot of money hasn't been spent over the years is it ? Maybe things are a lot better - happy to hear from those that might know.
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31448 |
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It's the wrong day historically as Redemption showed in post 1 and changing it would harm nobody. |
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waggamick
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Spot on! An objective independent audit of current and future practical aboriginal needs is critical. Everything should be triaged through the view of a better future for aboriginal children and women. |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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If you’re booted off your land it hardly matters what your laws and customs regarding ownership are- you’re still being booted off I’ve no doubt some aboriginals at the time considered it for all intents and purposes an invasion. I have no doubt some aboriginals today still do. This seems an entirely reasonable perspective to me. |
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waggamick
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Change the day...change the constitution..... The former is divisive and the latter will be tokenistic at best. That's what frustrates me is that these are activist led smokescreens muddy up the waters when something practical, devoid of 'cultural' hindrances, needs to be done to address the many worsening inequalities. |
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oneonesit
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Baguette
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A few facts about pre contact Aboriginal society might be helpful . The most up to date estimates of the population when the First Fleet arrived is around 350,000 people. Mostly concentrated in the top end . Arthur Phillip estimated the population from Broken Bay to the southern shore of Botany Bay was between between 1,500-2,000 people. They lived in extended family groups of around 50-60 , each group distinct in their customs to the others. The young men were warriors and fighting between the various groups was common. Each group was very aware that their hunting grounds were only theirs as long as their warriors could hold them. There was no political structure at all, no leaders . Problems between the settlers and the Aboriginals were always cultural clashes, especially the Aboriginal custom of revenge killings. The taking of deadly revenge for a perceived insult was something the British had trouble coming to terms with. I could go on about the Noble Savage Syndrome a well recognised syndrome amongst privileged white people, most prevalent in Victorian England but seems to have returned in our inner cities recently.
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waggamick
Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7140 |
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I agree with you on all counts BUT to hang your hat on the wrongs of an historical invasion is divisive and counter productive at a time when urgent objective practical action is required. We see funds spent on maintaining isolated settlements..with their attendant lack of medical facilities and educational/job opportunities..and more funds spent on teaching redundant aboriginal languages...to students in upper primary with a Kindergaten level reading age. Every time a government tries to address these issues (see WA govt trying to centralise remote communities) and the self centred aboriginal industry shouts you down as anti-culture racists.
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oneonesit
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Only watched a doco last night on Papua New Guinea Baguette. They have horrific issues with "revenge" killings/assault in their communities. More than 50% of all Emergency Procedures in hospitals up there involve gun/machette crimes on the back of this reason. The use of these bush machettes result in loss of limbs & major damage & is unbelievably brutal..
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oneonesit
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Sport continues to be the most effective way of breaking down barriers. All for pouring money into supporting that.
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waggamick
Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7140 |
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A much better spend than some of the pie in the sky crap they've funded over recent years.
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oneonesit
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Whale
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Wagga, mate, would you like me to point out all the very simplistic "tribal" doings of anglo saxons? Lets start with "federation square" in melbourne. Looks like a bloody simplistic building to me. If a bomb hit it, it would slant in another direction, and still look the same. RSL's are pokies venues. Went to "war", for pokies?? Should we list the thousands upon thousands of white anglo saxon pedos, that have filled up churches, and tv screens, eg Robert Hughes of Hey Dad? (this list is endless). We booted the dude that built the Sydney Opera House, back to his own country, before he even got to see it being finished, and we have since held it as a national treasure. Dot Paintings? Have you seen the work by Aboriginal artist, Albert Namatjira?? Nah mate, aboriginals just paint "dots" Qantas wouldnt even exist, without the fact Aboriginals are the first people to have invented the Flying Wing. Its called a Boomerang. or how about the millions upon millions of people that have been revived through Resuscitation? Aboriginals invented that too. Your post was 100% typical racist garbage and completed UNEDUCATED tripe. Wagga puts his case calmly and logically presenting facts to back his argument. Gotta respect him for that even if you disagree with his conclusion. Your post on the other hand is the complete opposite, not one relevant fact, simply a listing of some of the shortcomings of the evil English in the modern world, zero to do with the discussion Nobody is interested in your sick, racist, obsessional hatred of the English Totally ridiculous post
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Redemption
Champion Joined: 09 Apr 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5387 |
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Wagga, the anglos built on top of the natural spring, to "remove" aboriginals from the area.
these tactic were widely used, even in the Dandenong region. they were pushed out by a bunch of pr$cks. you can dress that up all you like.
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Redemption
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How sophisticated of them. Pity back in London, the public were still sh#tting in the alleyways, and did for another 150 years later. (and probably still do)
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acacia alba
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Hate to disallusion you, Redemption, but they still do that in any inner city anywhere in the world .
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animals before people.
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