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Melbourne Cup - exempt races to renew locals? |
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StormSiren
Champion Joined: 23 Jul 2015 Location: Canberra Status: Offline Points: 1808 |
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Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 5:09pm |
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Having read the commentary on the Cup this year, around the lack of local runners (and disgust at being overrun by internationals), reviewing weights, and restricting imports - I wonder if we can't approach it in another way to bolster the locals.
There's 24 spots. Currently, from what I can find, there are the 5 Australian races and 2 International races that qualify. This issue I see for locals, is that the qualifiers (outside of the Derby) are going to be contested by most of the internationals as lead up races into the cup anyway. *Lexus Stakes *Victoria Derby *LKS Mackinnon Stakes *Cox Plate *Caulfield Cup *Irish St. Leger *Tenno Sho (Spring) Why not extend the exempt races to include another two or three, outside of the carnival (Summer or Autumn) that allow the narrative to run throughout the year. Give trainers the chance to develop their staying horses and not have to try to rush them into the Victoria Derby if they aren't ready, which many won't be at that time. Bolster the ratings of other VRC races if they want to be parochial about it, while embracing the narrative of local cup horse. For example... VRC St Leger. Get the Derby & Oaks horses serious about the Cup back from Sydney.. will turn it into a Group race on ratings in no time. April race, gives the staying babies another 5 months to develop, and its a horse that isn't targeted by every colt wanting a stud career so should allow for fields of proper future staying types. Make the St Legers relevant again..
Alright.. end rant. Seems like a no-brainer for mine... but would be interested in others thoughts...?
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Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31417 |
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Lexus Stakes
*Victoria Derby *LKS Mackinnon Stakes *Cox Plate *Caulfield Cup *Irish St. Leger *Tenno Sho (Spring) You can see from that ludicrous list that the VRC is not the slightest bit interested in encouraging Australian stayers. Your idea is admirable but doomed by the self interested stupidity of the decision-makers.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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The more Australia trained horses that get into the race the better.
You simply put a line through them and forget about them.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17382 |
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Mackinnon Stakes is now run after the cup - no longer an exemption race.
Pretty sure the Bart Cummings is an exemption race too |
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17382 |
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VRC derby is no longer an exemption race either.
There are only four ballot exempt races for the Cup - Bart Cummings - Caulfield Cup - Cox Plate - Lexus Stakes |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31417 |
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Lexus Stakes
*Victoria Derby *LKS Mackinnon Stakes *Cox Plate *Caulfield Cup Lexus- ok, great but extremely last minute and horses don't back up like they did in the good old days. Victoria Derby- ridiculous- don't encourage the few idiots who would take up the offer Cox Plate- stupid- has there ever been a Melbourne Cup winner get a start by winning the Cox Plate? I cannot imagine a scenario in which this would ever serve the alleged purpose. The Cox Plate is not a race to unearth Melbourne Cup winners. Caulfield Cup- bulldust- a Caulfield Cup winner will always get a Melbourne Cup slot without an exemption.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Enabled
Yearling Joined: 04 Nov 2018 Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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It's in the VRC hands really.
The ATC wanted to swap the VRC Sires for an entry into the Golden Slipper for the Metropolitan into the Melbourne Cup. VRC told them to piss off. Pretty stupid that the Mackinnon is now run after the race too. |
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Enabled
Yearling Joined: 04 Nov 2018 Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Saintly did the Cox/Cup as did Makybe Diva and So You Think went close and would have won if the hockey did not let down early. 2 have done it the last 3 decades, fair.
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Enabled
Yearling Joined: 04 Nov 2018 Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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The VRC certainly adds to the glamour of the cup and will put in a home runner. A must. Stylish Century and nothing leica dane created massive media intrigue.
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Enabled
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VRC derby
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31417 |
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Saintly and Makybe Diva were already assured of a cup run- DUR-the Cox Plate will NEVER serve its supposed purpose as a MC exempt race.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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I liked Storm Siren's St Leger idea.
At least it does something to encourage locally trained and bred horses toward the Cup as well as renewing an old classic. The ANZAC day meeting has always had more potential than it has realized. In addition to a rejuvenation of the St Leger it needs a feature juvenile mile and a proper handicap Cup race to round it out. The VRC needs to dedicate the day to the ANZAC ethos, play on the Two-Up, get a few marching bands, free admission to anyone in uniform, make a day of it.
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8678 |
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I saw this on Twitter this morning:
BREAKING: The @FlemingtonVRC have announced that the winner of next year's Andrew Ramsden in May will gain direct entry into the $7.3 million Lexus Melbourne Cup. Prize money to be raised to $400,000 and the race will be run under WFA conditions |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8678 |
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And the race will be run at 2800m |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8678 |
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This from Greg Carpenter on Twitter
Andrew Ramsden @FlemingtonVRC now for 3-4-5yos over 2800m - Increased prizemoney to $400k - to be run under WFA conditions on May 25 and winner exempt into the 2019 Lexus Melbourne Cup https://t.co/WCd5HgaDx1 |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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I also agree with the st Leger idea
Also isn’t the weight given to these Imports part of the reason they get in before locals? How in gods name did Sound Check or Emotionless get handed a start by giving it 55kg and even though he ran a great race what allowed Rostropovich to get in? Why do out of form donkeys like Nakeeta & Red Cardinal get a crack? The whole system seems wrong and slanted to encourage the imports. If they run 3rd in one of their 4 horse group races they qualify |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31417 |
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Well that's an odd coincidence.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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Can just see the first of these newly-exempt Ramsden winners being allocated 54-55kg.
Exempt from ballot, as well as any hope of winning. |
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Prince of Penzance
Champion Joined: 17 Jan 2018 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1938 |
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What a joke.
Ruined another race. Well at least that will rule the Cup down to 23 chances now. |
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Prince of Penzance
Champion Joined: 17 Jan 2018 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1938 |
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I think that’s why a lot of Australian connections are buying into these overseas horses.
Most of them are qualified, despite being donkeys. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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2800 or 3200 it is still a staying trip.
The race is not ruined. When is the St Leger scheduled ? |
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reductio ad absurdum
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StormSiren
Champion Joined: 23 Jul 2015 Location: Canberra Status: Offline Points: 1808 |
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St Leger is the 25th April, the Ramsden is the 18th May.
May be a bit of a stretch for the 3yos as you'd assume most that are looking good at the trip would be in Sydney for the Oaks/Derby - St Leger would make sense but the Ramsden is asking them to be up for a while... Still, it's something
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Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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The first ballot clause has brought a few good locals undone. They either overextend at the start of the prep, or leave their run late & miss out.
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Jamal
Champion Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Status: Offline Points: 8678 |
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See link below for more information:
https://www.punters.com.au/news/ramsden-to-carry-cup-ballot-exemption_174570/ Basically: 1. Distance changed from 3200m to 2800m 2. Prize money boost to $400,000 3. Changed from handicap to WFA conditions 4. Race reatricted to 3,4 and 5 year-olds. 5. Winner is guarenteed a start in Melb Cup |
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Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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I don’t mind the idea of ballot free races- I think a race like the Lexus works because it at least ensures a horse is going into the Cup in good form- but this smacks of tokenism. An exempt race months before in a different prep doubt will do too much to enhance the race.
As for more locals- I’d love to see it but I’m struggling to find too many in recent years who’ve been ballotted out who deserved a spot. Until we address the actual cause and produce better stayers, this is bandaid stuff. |
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Lordy
Champion Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: Sunshine State Status: Offline Points: 13887 |
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After Vintage Crop won we had Bart Cummings whinging to everybody that the European horses were getting in light. Since then the handicapper has rated Euro form much higher. It now sees Listed class winners sit much higher in ballot order. Give them less weight and there won't be as many in the field. Flip side it also makes it easier for them to win if they are in. Catch 22. |
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Prince of Penzance
Champion Joined: 17 Jan 2018 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1938 |
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Internationals should only be qualified by winning
Placing in a field of 4 getting you qualified is an absolute joke |
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pnclick
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1020 |
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Are there number restrictions for Internationals in races like the Japan Cup etc?
Why doesn't RVL place a restricted limit on International runners? Obviously, you'd need a timeframe for what constitutes an "International runner". Objective of which is to attract the elite internationals, and may make more of the lesser ones aim at the Dalgety and other Ballot exempt races to push for a spot. Personally, don't think it would diminish the value of the race, you'd still get the A grade internationals, as it would probably be slightly easier to win, and you'd have local runners in the race, which would encourage local breeding or racing of stayers.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Which horses have done that ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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