Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Racing - Public Forums > Racing Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 2019 Melbourne Cup
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.


2019 Melbourne Cup

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 89101112 21>
Author
Message
mc41 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Goldcoast Au
Status: Offline
Points: 4919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 12:16pm
Nolen booted,Boss now the pilot.
Decided by owners
Back to Top
Red Hare View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 4233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 1:07pm
Does Nolen ride that light? Constantinople has got 52.5kg.
Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Offline
Points: 79533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 1:25pm
He rode him at 53kg yesterday.
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 2:00pm
After watching that staying race at Ascot last night ( and a great spectacle) I think Appleby can do it again with Cross Counter, 57-5 kg ( 9 st. 1 lb.) won't worry him imo, I had Constantinople on top in my tips but from the 1/2 mile to the furlong was never out of trouble , have my doubts on his 2 mile capabilities though fwiw.
Back to Top
mc41 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Goldcoast Au
Status: Offline
Points: 4919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

Does Nolen ride that light? Constantinople has got 52.5kg.

Has been replaced would say he is booted off
Back to Top
Shawy38 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 17265
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 2:31pm
I posted a story on the Constantinople thread Which has some detail in it
Back to Top
cotto1 View Drop Down
Yearling
Yearling


Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 119
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cotto1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 12:10pm
Hi there guys:
What is everyone making of Mustajeers hit out in the Caulfield cup?.
He went better than I thought he would.
Back to Top
TJMitchell View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 16890
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 1:15pm
Feature Race - GOLD MOUNT (GB) - lame off fore. Will not be continuing with Spring preparation.


Suspensory
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 2:15pm
Today, Racing Victoria Chief Handicapper Greg Carpenter announced that Caulfield Cup winner Mer De Glace has recieved a 1kg penalty for winning the Caulfield Cup. This means his Melbourne Cup weight is now 56kg. The last horse to do the Caulfield Cup/Melbourne Cup double was Ethereal in 2001. The last Melbourne Cup winner to carry 56kg was Japanese horse Delta Blues in 2006

Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
Back to Top
TJMitchell View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 16890
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Feature Race - GOLD MOUNT (GB) - lame off fore. Will not be continuing with Spring preparation.


Suspensory

Retired
Back to Top
cotto1 View Drop Down
Yearling
Yearling


Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 119
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cotto1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2019 at 11:55am
Hi guys:
Red verdon out of the m cup.bone issues.
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2019 at 5:44pm
With Prince Of Arran winning the Geelong Cup, some interesting info:

Prince Of Arran fastest Geelong Cup race time in the past 15 years. In previous 15 years, fastest was:

2002 Media Puzzle (won Melbourne Cup)
2004 Zazzman (3rd in Melbourne Cup)
2005 On A Jeune (2nd Melbourne Cup)

Plus Prince Of Arran has now had 5 starts in Australia:

3rd: G2 2018 Herbert Power (2400m)
1st: G2 2018 Lexus Stakes (2500m)
3rd: G1 2018 Melbourne Cup (3200m)
2nd: G2 2019 Herbert Power (2400m)
1st: G3 2019 Geelong Cup (2400m)
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
Back to Top
Slammington View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 328
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slammington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2019 at 9:27pm
He has certainly built up a very impressive record in Australia. How he didn't get given enough weight to guarantee a start after his performances last year is perplexing especially when considered against some others higher in the weights.

Thankfully he should now get in because it would have been a disgrace had he missed out.
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 1:03am
Originally posted by Slammington Slammington wrote:

He has certainly built up a very impressive record in Australia. How he didn't get given enough weight to guarantee a start after his performances last year is perplexing especially when considered against some others higher in the weights.

Thankfully he should now get in because it would have been a disgrace had he missed out.


His form after the 2018 Melbourne Cup last year was:

8th: 2018 G1 Hong Kong Vase (2400m)
4th: 2019 G2 Dubai City of Gold Cup (2400m)
9th: 2019 G2 Dubai Gold Cup (3200m)
5th: 2019 G3 Glorious Stakes (2412m)
8th: 2019 G2 Ebor Handicap (2787m)
3rd: 2019 G3 September Stakes (2413m)
2nd: 2019 G2 Herbert Power Stakes (2400m)
1st: 2019 G3 Geelong Cup (2400m)

I reckon it was based on his performances outside Australia in 2019 which meant he was given the same weight as last year's Melbourne Cup (53kg), which meant he was down the order of entry. But as he has now won the Geelong Cup - hopefully he gets a penalty and can go up the order of entry.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
Back to Top
Balciano View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 09 Nov 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 860
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 1:56am
Greg Carpenter was interviewed this morning explaining the weight of 53kgs for Prince of Arran in the Cup. He stated it was partly based on his poor form since the Cup last year - in fact were it not for his 3rd on the synthetic at Kempton Park prior to the weights being released, Carpenter was considering giving him less than 53kgs.

The other reason he stated was that Marmelo carried 56kgs last year in the Cup, and beat home POA with 53kgs comfortably. As Marmelo had again been given 56kgs this year, he couldn't reasonably put POA any closer to him in the weights.

Was an interesting reasoning.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 2:23am
It is really quite obvious reasoning.

It is just a shame Carpenter starts off such a low weight.

These horses could be carrying 3 or 4 kilos more allowing for a far great spread of weights.


reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
Red Hare View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 4233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 2:58am
Prince of Arran was penalised for racing against the best.

It would’ve been an absolute clusterfluff if he was balloted out for Neufbosc, Youngstar or one of the O’Brien dromedaries. Deadset, how is he behind Hunting Horn?
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 3:40am
Hunting Horn is a far superior horse.
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
mikey View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 511
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 8:10am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Hunting Horn is a far superior horse.


Big call. Hunting Horn's good form is 12+ months ago too. I couldn't have him above POA at present - we have no idea if he even likes Australia.
Back to Top
Lord Hybrow View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jul 2015
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 8:16am
The horse who I can’t fathom the weight for is IL PARADISO at 52.5kg.

This NH 3yo’s record is 2 wins from 8 starts, with no black type wins.

Those 2 wins were a 2400m maiden at Leopardstown & an 3200m open handicap at The Curragh. Each time he’s run at G1 level he’s been an abject failure, running 7th in the Irish Derby (beaten 17 Lens) & 5th in the St Leger (where he wilted in the straight after being invited a perfect position).

Other NH 3yo Melb Cup runners of recent years have been significantly better performed & have received less weight - Mahler at 50.5kg, Cross Counter at 51kg, Rekindling 51.5kg.

All 3 of those horses had won black type races before coming to the Melb Cup but received less weight.

Even factoring in the change that Carpenter made to weighting NH 3yo’s for 2019, there’s no way Il Paradiso justifies getting 52.5kg.

Was he given that weight to make sure that Aiden O’Brien had a runner?



Back to Top
mikey View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 511
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 8:25am
He was 3rd (albeit in a 4 horse field), beaten 1.25 lengths before the worlds best stayer - Stradivarius at York on 23/8.

That is what earnt him the 52.5kgs.
Back to Top
Lord Hybrow View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jul 2015
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 8:55am
I’ve seen his Lonsdale Cup run behind Stradivarius & Dee Ex Bee. It was an excellent effort.

So he gets 52.5kg on just 1 good run, despite the rest of his form being rubbish?
Back to Top
mikey View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 511
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 9:16am
Pretty much. & the recent history of Northern Hemisphere 3yo's.
Back to Top
Red Hare View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 4233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Hunting Horn is a far superior horse.
Back to Top
Red Hare View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 4233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by mikey mikey wrote:

He was 3rd (albeit in a 4 horse field), beaten 1.25 lengths before the worlds best stayer - Stradivarius at York on 23/8.

That is what earnt him the 52.5kgs.
Brocky’s caravan would regularly finish within a length of his car.
Back to Top
Jamal View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 1:41pm
A 1kg penalty for Prince Of Arran for winning the Geelong Cup. Now has 54kg in the Melbourne Cup.

Last horse to do the Geelong Cup/Melbourne Cup double was Dunaden - 2011
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
Back to Top
Balciano View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 09 Nov 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 860
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It is really quite obvious reasoning.

It is just a shame Carpenter starts off such a low weight.

These horses could be carrying 3 or 4 kilos more allowing for a far great spread of weights.




You're then looking at Cross Counter/Avilius/Kew Gardens types being given 61-62kgs, almost assuring they won't run.

Agree that the spread of 8-9 kgs from top to bottom at the time weights are released is too compressed, but when was the last time a horse carried more than 60kgs or more in a Melbourne Cup. Double Trigger? Kingston Town?
Back to Top
cotto1 View Drop Down
Yearling
Yearling


Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 119
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cotto1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 4:17pm
Hi there guys:
Quick question is hartnell still aiming for the Melbourne cup.
If yes - how do you think he’ll go.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 4:23pm
Not sure it would scare the Poms or Irish off.

They are used to carrying and giving big weights away.

It is a shame the weights are not framed in such away that the majority are carrying more than 57 kgs.

The weights in the Ebor nearly always hold up, granted very rarely is there a massive spread. This year for example it was something like 62 down to 57.5. Prince Of Arran had 60.5.

Cross Counter has carried 61 kgs at his last two group 1 starts. 


reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 53960
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by cotto1 cotto1 wrote:

Hi there guys:
Quick question is hartnell still aiming for the Melbourne cup.
If yes - how do you think he’ll go.

NO.

He is having his final race start in the Mackinnon Stakes, The Springs championship 2000m contest. 
reductio ad absurdum
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 89101112 21>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.140 seconds.