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2018 G1 Caulfield Cup 2400m |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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Which of course further demonstrates that it’s our horses, not our trainers. Just on imports, I note Weir has choppered in the new Oaks favourite. Could this be the next thing, importing 3yos? Rich pickings in our farcical 3yo staying events, I would have thought. Unfortunately for connections, won’t be eligible for the Magic Millions Staying Classic. |
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Redemption
Champion Joined: 09 Apr 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5387 |
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People are missing one of the worst rides of all time.
Damien Oliver on Ace High. It was a classic case of a Trainer not communicating enough to a jockey, and a jockey not knowing the horse. Ace High, a lazy a## trackworker, totally pinged out of the gates and got a good half a length to one length in front in the first 50m. Ace High was READY. Ready to run. Then Oliver switched him off, by going sooo bloody slow. The good ole "stack em and rack em", is meant to be great, but not this time. If you switch off Ace High, he thinks its just another bloody morning track gallop. Ace High didnt want to know the race after the first turn. You watch the AJC Derby this year. He has to run at a TRUE gallop, then he gives and gives and gives. The final 200m in the AJC Derby, he streeted the field with Lavendi, and Ace High could have done another lap at top speed. Equally, the VRC Derby, it was a true gallop, and he ran 3 to 4 wide the final 800m, then he gave and gave and gave and killed the field. Oliver just did the standard thing "rating" his mount, stacking the whole field up, which is what you want a leader to do normally, but it was a classic case of a jockey not truly knowing the horse. Ace High was ready for the race bigtime, pinged out of gates, then was told to shutdown by Oliver. Nup What you got out of Ace High yesterday, was a lazy track gallop, and it wasnt his fault. It was a MAJOR FORGIVE run. Was one of the worst rides of the modern era.
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SkyDancer
Champion Joined: 02 Aug 2014 Location: Cranbourne Status: Offline Points: 8429 |
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Re Ace High - he was in a mood in the tie ups.
Got worked up being surrounded by fillies, was a muck lather of sweat, calling out and trying to show off. He had already ran his race before he even got to the mounting yard. |
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stayer
Champion Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Status: Offline Points: 21897 |
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I know people have said it but it's amazing reading all the jockeys complaining about the slow pace. Fair enough if you're stuck in traffic or on a backmarker but I'm guessing I'll see a lot of dumb rides when I watch replays properly. One thing I wanted, and was worried wouldn't happen, was for Best Solution to be able to get to the front of the pack because I'd seen how tough he is to pass and I thought it would be hard for anything to run on from the back, and I couldn't believe how "easy" it was for Cosgrave to loop the field and slot into an ideal spot after a bad start!
On the other hand, I don't know if Purton was riding to instructions (surely not, on a horse that races just off the pace?) but I was also hoping for Red V to use some early initiative to get up on near the lead because I thought he would also make an early break for home like Best Solution did, but instead Purton hooks him straight to the inside at the back and then complains that the horse was over racing and was left behind! Red V was actually a brave run when you watch it again. |
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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Stayer
Red V was poleaxed in the straight. Should have finished much closer |
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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There’s been a race called the Blue Diamond that’s been around for nearly 50 years. It’s a bit rich to lump it all onto Sydney and Qld |
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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Bloody Melbourne racing
They’ve stuffed Australian Racing. The Maribyrnong Plates been going since 1871 |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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The connection between huge prize money for juveniles and the declining standard of our older horses seems pretty clear to me.
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stayer
Champion Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Status: Offline Points: 21897 |
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Yeah but still too far back to begin with IMO. Was never comfortable from the couple of replays I watched so a pretty tough effort. Not sure re the MC though. This was probably his best chance. |
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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Yes, if he’s settled in you’d think Magic Circle has RV covered on his last run |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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I was just pulling up in the drive when the race was on, so I didn’t see it live. Had no idea they’d gone that slow- Matt Hill made no mention of it, in fact he called it a “stamina sapper” . But watching the replay it’s clear how many horses weren’t happy with the tempo.
Inconclusive from a Cups perspective, still like Yucatan. |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31416 |
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So who was expected to put the pace on and didn't?
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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stayer
Champion Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Status: Offline Points: 21897 |
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Yeah good question - it was looking like Homesman, Ace High, Taj, Jon Snow (WTF was that ride), Best Solution if possible, the Japanese horses and maybe Duretto would go forward, and that's pretty much what happened in the end, but they mucked around a bit and slowed it down. I thought Purton would have seen that Red V would have an opportunity to get right up there and go for home early. I suppose the best chances of putting any real pace on were the Japanese horses and a Williams bunny. It was always looking like it would be hard for backmarkers IMO.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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It is in a trainers best interest to geld. The Japanese built the Japan Cup to see where they stood. They learnt and implemented changes and now they are world class. Japan have 7 8 and 9 year old stallions running around. They rarely geld. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Baguette
Champion Joined: 18 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3651 |
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Its not in any modern trainers best interest to geld. Their job is to make a stallion and you can bet that there are financial deals done when the stud deal comes through. And the difference between us and Japan, if you're talking 2400 metre plus horses, is they wanted to improve and we don't. It's not the breeders or the trainers fault, it's the owners who don't want stayers. They want sprinter/milers.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21821 |
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My thoughts are with how the prize money has been skewered towards 2 and 3y/os that a lot of owners and trainers are reluctant to cut ( with trainers now getting a percentage of sale to a stud) and owners living the Dream of another Fastnet R. Pierro or TAS and huge money involved in syndication, the idea to educate and geld has all but gone sadly as has the beneficial good spell to let the bone and knees take up, I've said before the best two vets are "Father Time and Doctor Green"but when we have short course horses going to stud patience disappears and money takes over , I'm all for gelding Manikato would not have stood up to the preps he had imo and who could possibly argue with TJ after the career of Kingston Town , there are two things I will add , when young us kids went to Inglis sales late 50s and nearly all TJs buys were gelded there and then, when in Melbourne I walked into a stable to start work , a vet was there having a hard time with a horse, so over I go and after a minute he looked me in the eye swet rolling down his face he said to me " I'd love to come here tomorrow with a scalpel and fill that dunpit up with balls , laughed my head off but he was Right imo. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Yucatan 4 starts as a 2yo still intact.
Best Solution 6 starts as a 2yo still intact. Best Solution by Kodiac. Kodiac is the equivalent to Rorys Jester. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Controversial opinion here. The best way to focus our industry towards breeding and producing stayers once again is to ban international runners from handicaps. That's the only way it's going to happen.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Not sure how that will improve the trainers ability to produce and develop them ? It is not breeding that is the problem. FIFTY STARS !!!!! |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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The cream will rise to the top and they'll be a profile for how a stayer is developed. If some trainers use less orthodox methods and have success I'd expect that to be replicated. Whatever works will win out.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Why do they forget how to train when they step foot in Australia?
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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That is a good question. I suspect they were not or would not cut the mustard up there. Matt Cumani is an interesting one. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21821 |
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So what if those two are entires, there would be heaps going over the jumps that wouldn't enjoy that status, as for Kodiac Delville Wood sired Melbourne cup winner , Derby winners Oaks winners and and an Oakleigh Plate winner , there are times when breeding is not all what it seems imo. |
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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Do t Agee with that Sheck. The likes of Fiorante and Americanain have been well supported at stud |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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They are not the types to throw top class classic horses and stayers. I certainly hope they do but they are not the types. Stradivarius the best stayer on the planet is already being touted as a National Hunt stallion. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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Well it worked well for the Trabant |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31416 |
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Best Solution has a Jameka type pedigree, i.e. they clearly intended to breed a sprinter. I see plenty of horses with sprinter x sprinter pedigrees who win big races at 2400m (they get found out at 3200m) but does it happen the other way round- stayer x stayer pedigree who wins the Golden Slipper or the Lightning Stakes?
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Pierro, Although Lonhro whilst a miler 2000m horse himself is probably considered a sprinting sire these days.
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reductio ad absurdum
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Not exactly
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