Mating Advice Please - Baffled

Thanks(0)

Quote

Topic: Mating Advice Please - Baffled
Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 4:52pm

Thanks kavg and furious.

To my novice eye there looks to be a lot going on in that pedigree and it will be exciting to see what eventuates late this year :-)

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

furious

Champion

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 25179

Post Options

Quote furious

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 20 Jan 2021 at 3:17pm

All the best for healthy foals at the end of the year.

kavg

Champion

Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3993

Post Options

Quote kavg

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 20 Jan 2021 at 12:03pm

Good luck Phillip,

Love the sex balances and also gives you the Nijinsky/The Minstrel cross which Furious mentioned in her last post.

Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world.

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 8:18pm

Baffled produced a lovely bay filly by Boulder City who is very correct in every way, there's not much to complain about and everyone who has seen her so far can't fault her apart from a slight parrot mouth.

Baffled had a year off and was initially served this year by Holler and missed, but due to timing issues, yesterday she had a positive 14 day scan to Mezyaan.

This is what the pedigree will look like - https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/139886142_4297348626959714_5553636983576887086_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=dmbILxSAoP0AX8LeRuJ&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=45e31aa90b0b5620d525bd7b478ccd13&oe=602CA069

Mezyaan is a gorgeous black stallion, by Lonhro out of a half sister to Encosta de Lago. He stands at Euroa alongside Swift Alliance. See the 2010 stallion list under the stallions thread for contact details of all Victorian stallions for 2010.

What I love about this mating (and I'm only a novice, so go easy on me Smile

) is that a son of Sir Tristram over Eight Carat produced Octagonal (sire line), Sir Tristram over a daughter of Eight Carat produced Viscount (dam line). The mating is sex balanced for Eight Carat, Sir Tristram, Sir Ivor, Northern Dancer, Raise A Native, Nijinsky, Herbager, Natalma, Flaming Page, Nasrullah and Native Dancer.

Mezyaan was showing great promise as a 2 yo, but fractured a sesamoid in training. He certainly has a pedigree behind him.

Looking forward to early December when there should be 2 Mezyaan foals and one Swift Alliance (pending a preg test next week) foals on the ground here for myself and a client. The sleepless nights will surely be worth it Smile

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 6:19pm

No, he's not a burly type, he's a tall, rangier type really. Reminds me of the older NZ stayer types (the horses I loved to Event Smile

) Having said that, when I saw him it was late in the season and he'd been serving quite a bit.

Here is a link to his page and there is a photo of him on there - https://www.riverbankfarm.com.au/boulder-city/overview It says on the website a suspensory issue was what stopped him getting to the track. I wouldn't consider him as being an early 2yo type, even though he's by Snitzel, mainly due to the fact he's quite tall and would have taken some time to mature (not a bad thing!). I think given he was sold as a yearling for $2.4M, they were probably trying to get him to the track as an early 2yo.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I was REALLY impressed with his temperament.

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

Gay3

Moderator Group

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 52012

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 3:09pm

'Nuff said Wink

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Second Chance View Drop Down

Champion

Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Status: Online
Points: 45809

Post Options

Quote Second Chance

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 2:53pm

He was with Gai so was probably tried very early. His 2yo brother is with Maher/Eustace.

Served 90-odd mares in his first season 2018.

Gay3

Moderator Group

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 52012

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 2:36pm

I heard Jo McKinnon on RSN interview the studmaster (Osborne is it?) & he said a chronic joint issue was responsible for lack of starts.

Given his breeding, I guess pressure would've been on to get him firing early. Is he a burly horse Phillip?

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 1:59pm

Thanks Furious. I didn't delve far into why he didn't race, but I believe he was injured in training at some stage. He's certainly got a great temperament from what I saw and is a very nice type.

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

furious

Champion

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 25179

Post Options

Quote furious

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 6:32am

Good luck Phillip, I like The Minstrel/Nijinsky (in Dancing Show grandam of Redoute's Choice) cross. Did they say why Boulder City never race? Half to an iron mare so hopefully injured someway. That can and does happen even to the best of them. One thing hope for rain. With that pedigree it screams mudlark.

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:29pm

Thanks for all the advice. She is now confirmed in foal at 45 days to Boulder City (half brother to Winx). I went away from the double cross of Eight Carat as I wasn't convinced it was successful enough

Unnamed

Boulder City (AUS) Bay 2014	Snitzel Bay 2002	Redoute's Choice Bay 1996	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Razyana	1977 1981	7-a 2-d
		Redoute's Choice Bay 1996	Shantha's Choice Bay 1992	Canny Lad Dancing Show	1987 1983	14> 8-f
		Snippets' Lass Bay 1993	Snippets Bay 1984	Lunchtime Easy Date	1970 1977	7-f 20-a
		Snippets' Lass Bay 1993	Snow Finch Bay 1984	Storm Bird A Realgirl	1978 1976	4-j 2-c
	Vegas Showgirl Bay 2002	Al Akbar Bay 1990	Success Express Bay 1985	Hold Your Peace Au Printemps	1969 1979	12-b 17-b
		Al Akbar Bay 1990	Gala Night Bay 1984	Blakeney Debutante	1966 1974	20-c 1-g
		Vegas Magic Bay 1985	Voodoo Rhythm Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Obeah	1961 1965	2-d 2-f
		Vegas Magic Bay 1985	Vegas Street Grey 1976	Sovereign Edition Vegas	1962 1969	13-a 5-b
Baffled (AUS) Brown 2005	Viscount Brown 1998	Quest for Fame Bay or brown 1987	Rainbow Quest Bay 1981	Blushing Groom I Will Follow	1974 1975	22-d 14-f
		Quest for Fame Bay or brown 1987	Aryenne Bay 1977	Green Dancer Americaine	1972 1968	16-c 4-i
		Antwerp Bay 1988	Sir Tristram Bay 1971	Sir Ivor Isolt	1965 1961	8-g 6-e
		Antwerp Bay 1988	Diamond Lover Brown 1982	Sticks and Stones Eight Carat	1972 1975	2-b 9-c
	Beyond Me Brown 1992	Bakharoff Bay 1983	The Minstrel Chestnut 1974	Northern Dancer Fleur	1961 1964	2-d 8-f
		Bakharoff Bay 1983	Qui Royalty Bay or brown 1977	Native Royalty Qui Blink	1967 1966	4-k 22-d
		Lemon Princess Brown 1977	Acidity Chestnut 1969	Orgoglio Court Fantasy	1949 1957	23-a 10-d
		Lemon Princess Brown 1977	Phantom Princess Brown 1971	Royalgo Baroda Princess	1962 1959	22-a 14>

Ancestor duplications:

Northern Dancer

5m x 5m

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 8:46pm

Thanks SS & Gay.

SS, yes, I'm not relying on the dosage figures for anything but an indication, whether it's helpful or not remains to be seen.

Gay, I've been going back 14 generations. It could be another long, late night :-) Just as well I don't want to breed her until at least November as I don't want anything on the ground here before mid October next year.

I was relieved today when the Vet came and scanned her and gave her a clean bill of health from a reproductive perspective. No fluid and as I suspected, she had ovulated a few days ago. She's only been here 10 days, so I wasn't sure if her being a bit more alert a few days ago was her being in season or something else. At least she's cycling and doesn't have any ongoing issues in her lady bits :-)

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

Gay3

Moderator Group

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 52012

Post Options

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 8:16am

Fwiw, Ken McLean recommends balancing Teddy & Tracery equally that's if you going to delve that far back Wink

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

StormSiren View Drop Down

Champion

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Location: Canberra
Status: Offline
Points: 1808

Post Options

Thanks(2)

Quote

Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 4:57am

Be a little wary with dosage re profile (ie miler)

There's a fair bit which goes into distance aptitude- fast and slow twitch muscle development (CC;CT;TT) is part, I know Byron is looking at this from a mitochondrial perspective.. dosage won't give you the full picture.

Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 11:18pm

OK, so this is what I have been playing with :

Unnamed - $1650 - Bangholme

Torch Relay (AUS) Brown 2006	Lonhro Brown 1998	Octagonal Brown 1992	Zabeel Bay 1986	Sir Tristram Lady Giselle	1971 1982	6-e 16-c
		Octagonal Brown 1992	Eight Carat Brown 1975	Pieces of Eight Klairessa	1963 1969	3-o 9-c
		Shadea Bay 1988	Straight Strike Bay or brown 1977	Mr Prospector Bend Not	1970 1972	13-c 11>
		Shadea Bay 1988	Concia Bay 1978	First Consul My Tricia	1970 1974	5-f 8>
	Olympic Flame Bay 1982	Buena Shore Chestnut 1973	George Lewis Bay or brown 1967	Envoy Bell's Lark	1962 1956	2-f 1-p
		Buena Shore Chestnut 1973	Full View Bay 1962	Nadir Kerala	1955 1958	17-b 8-h
		Sports Queen Brown 1966	Gambler's Luck Bay 1957	Court Martial Game of Chance	1942 1947	1-p 14-c
		Sports Queen Brown 1966	Nisi Prius Bay 1945	Marconigram Statute	1925 1939	1-i 11-d
Baffled (AUS) Brown 2005	Viscount Brown 1998	Quest for Fame Bay or brown 1987	Rainbow Quest Bay 1981	Blushing Groom I Will Follow	1974 1975	22-d 14-f
		Quest for Fame Bay or brown 1987	Aryenne Bay 1977	Green Dancer Americaine	1972 1968	16-c 4-i
		Antwerp Bay 1988	Sir Tristram Bay 1971	Sir Ivor Isolt	1965 1961	8-g 6-e
		Antwerp Bay 1988	Diamond Lover Brown 1982	Sticks and Stones Eight Carat	1972 1975	2-b 9-c
	Beyond Me Brown 1992	Bakharoff Bay 1983	The Minstrel Chestnut 1974	Northern Dancer Fleur	1961 1964	2-d 8-f
		Bakharoff Bay 1983	Qui Royalty Bay or brown 1977	Native Royalty Qui Blink	1967 1966	4-k 22-d
		Lemon Princess Brown 1977	Acidity Chestnut 1969	Orgoglio Court Fantasy	1949 1957	23-a 10-d
		Lemon Princess Brown 1977	Phantom Princess Brown 1971	Royalgo Baroda Princess	1962 1959	22-a 14>

Ancestor duplications:

Sir Tristram

5m x 4f

Eight Carat

4m x 5f

7 Generations – Duplication of Flaming Page x 6f, 7m, Knight’s Daughter 7f x 7m + Court Martial 5m x 6f, Nasrullah 7m, 6m, 6m x 7f, 6m, 7m, Princequillo 7f x 7m, Bold Ruler 7f, 6m

Dosage 0.83 2.60 - Miler

Domino	78
Teddy	53
Lady Josephine	42
Selene	29
Scapa Flow	46
La Fleche	65
Quiver	119
Miss Gunning	2
Chelandry	12

I think I'm going cross eyed after doing this for 40 or so stallions. I'm not sure if I'm on the right track and looking at the correct things. To my untrained eyes (even cross eyed), there are a few matings that 'look' to work better than others. Quite a few look ok, with what appear to be good duplications, apart from appearing to make the resulting foal slower than the mare's pedigree herself (and on paper she shouldn't have been a slouch, although she was unraced).

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 6:39pm

haha, thanks Gay. I certainly was baffled :-) It was refreshing to see SS was too :-)

Ok, so I'm a newbie to this and there is a steep learning curve, but the duplication is in different positions in this pedigree to what I seem to be able to achieve. Is this a factor? Large factor?

Currently wading through about 40 or so test matings, documenting duplications and whether they are sex balanced etc. (Hopefully!!) I'm learning a lot :-)

I have come to the realisation that she is from the same family of Canny Lad, so I think I'm starting to understand things a bit better. I haven't yet delved into who's a full brother/sister or half brother/sister yet, but at least I am starting to recognise names and think 'hang on, isn't that the dam of ....?'

Again, thanks all for your input. I've an open mind and am taking it all on board (well, I'm trying to - lots of late nights looking at potential matings and the brain is turning to more mush than usual :-) )

Cheers

Phillip

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

StormSiren View Drop Down

Champion

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Location: Canberra
Status: Offline
Points: 1808

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 7:27pm

Thought that was what you meant until you said her names on top

Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.

Gay3

Moderator Group

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 52012

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 7:09pm

She's an outstanding example of the Eight Carat line cross Phillip was initially wanting to use.

Still Baffled? LOL

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

StormSiren View Drop Down

Champion

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Location: Canberra
Status: Offline
Points: 1808

Post Options

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 5:58pm

... says Verry Elegant? Mare in question is Baffled...? Lol I’m confused too..

Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.

Gay3

Moderator Group

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 52012

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 5:44pm

That is her pedigree Phillip LOL

her name's on the top of it.

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 5:17pm

Gay3 wrote:

She has her own thread in Racing Phillip Thumbs Up

VERRY ELLEEGANT (NZ)

Bay filly 2015

Zed Bay 2002	Zabeel Bay 1986	Sir Tristram Bay 1971	Sir Ivor Bay 1965	Sir Gaylord Attica	1959 1953	2-s 8-g
		Sir Tristram Bay 1971	Isolt Bay 1961	Round Table All My Eye	1954 1954	2-f 6-e
		Lady Giselle Bay 1982	Nureyev Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Special	1961 1969	2-d 5-h
		Lady Giselle Bay 1982	Valderna Bay 1972	Val de Loir Derna	1959 1961	5-h 16-c
	Emerald Dream Bay 1996	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Pas de Nom	1961 1968	2-d 7-a
		Danehill Bay 1986	Razyana Bay 1981	His Majesty Spring Adieu	1968 1974	4-d 2-d
		Theme Song Bay 1987	Sackford Bay 1980	Stop the Music Bon Fille	1970 1962	11-g 20>
		Theme Song Bay 1987	Cotehele House Brown or black 1980	My Swanee Eight Carat	1963 1975	8-j 9-c
Opulence Brown 2005	Danroad Bay 1999	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Pas de Nom	1961 1968	2-d 7-a
		Danehill Bay 1986	Razyana Bay 1981	His Majesty Spring Adieu	1968 1974	4-d 2-d
		Strawberry Girl Bay 1993	Strawberry Road Bay 1979	Whiskey Road Giftisa	1972 1974	4-d 18>
		Strawberry Girl Bay 1993	Pay the Piper Chestnut 1977	Bombay Duck Riskay Reid	1972 1972	13-c 4-m
	Mulan Magic Bay 1999	King's Theatre Bay 1991	Sadler's Wells Bay 1981	Northern Dancer Fairy Bridge	1961 1975	2-d 5-h
		King's Theatre Bay 1991	Regal Beauty Bay or brown 1981	Princely Native Dennis Belle	1971 1960	14-c 9-b
		Chalet Girl Chestnut 1985	Imposing Chestnut 1975	Todman Hialeah	1954 1963	1-u 1-c
		Chalet Girl Chestnut 1985	Cotehele House Brown or black 1980	My Swanee Eight Carat	1963 1975	8-j 9-c

Ancestor duplications:

Northern Dancer

5m,5m x 5m,5m

Danehill

3f x 3m

Cotehele House

4f x 4f

Um, am I missing something? I can't see her in that pedigree.

Gay3

Moderator Group

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 52012

Post Options

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 7:36pm

One out of left field in Tassie this season Big smile

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Gay3

Moderator Group

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 52012

Post Options

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 1:04pm

She has her own thread in Racing Phillip Thumbs Up

VERRY ELLEEGANT (NZ)

Bay filly 2015

Zed Bay 2002	Zabeel Bay 1986	Sir Tristram Bay 1971	Sir Ivor Bay 1965	Sir Gaylord Attica	1959 1953	2-s 8-g
		Sir Tristram Bay 1971	Isolt Bay 1961	Round Table All My Eye	1954 1954	2-f 6-e
		Lady Giselle Bay 1982	Nureyev Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Special	1961 1969	2-d 5-h
		Lady Giselle Bay 1982	Valderna Bay 1972	Val de Loir Derna	1959 1961	5-h 16-c
	Emerald Dream Bay 1996	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Pas de Nom	1961 1968	2-d 7-a
		Danehill Bay 1986	Razyana Bay 1981	His Majesty Spring Adieu	1968 1974	4-d 2-d
		Theme Song Bay 1987	Sackford Bay 1980	Stop the Music Bon Fille	1970 1962	11-g 20>
		Theme Song Bay 1987	Cotehele House Brown or black 1980	My Swanee Eight Carat	1963 1975	8-j 9-c
Opulence Brown 2005	Danroad Bay 1999	Danehill Bay 1986	Danzig Bay 1977	Northern Dancer Pas de Nom	1961 1968	2-d 7-a
		Danehill Bay 1986	Razyana Bay 1981	His Majesty Spring Adieu	1968 1974	4-d 2-d
		Strawberry Girl Bay 1993	Strawberry Road Bay 1979	Whiskey Road Giftisa	1972 1974	4-d 18>
		Strawberry Girl Bay 1993	Pay the Piper Chestnut 1977	Bombay Duck Riskay Reid	1972 1972	13-c 4-m
	Mulan Magic Bay 1999	King's Theatre Bay 1991	Sadler's Wells Bay 1981	Northern Dancer Fairy Bridge	1961 1975	2-d 5-h
		King's Theatre Bay 1991	Regal Beauty Bay or brown 1981	Princely Native Dennis Belle	1971 1960	14-c 9-b
		Chalet Girl Chestnut 1985	Imposing Chestnut 1975	Todman Hialeah	1954 1963	1-u 1-c
		Chalet Girl Chestnut 1985	Cotehele House Brown or black 1980	My Swanee Eight Carat	1963 1975	8-j 9-c

Ancestor duplications:

Northern Dancer

5m,5m x 5m,5m

Danehill

3f x 3m

Cotehele House

4f x 4f

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

StormSiren View Drop Down

Champion

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Location: Canberra
Status: Offline
Points: 1808

Post Options

Thanks(2)

Quote

Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 8:08am

One more to keep up the sleeve depending on how he does is Jonker. May end up being a value stallion if he doesn't pick up a major..

By Spirit of Boom, descends to Eight Carat and his dam is linebred to her (tail female, and through damsire kempinsky). There is Danehill in the pedigree but its not the tail male line

Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren, Sirens Star, Elpis & Wait For It.

PhillipC

Champion

Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Location: Warragul
Status: Offline
Points: 685

Post Options

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 6:43am

Cityboy wrote:

Others might correct me but I don’t think the stats of sons of Danehill with Viscount mares are especially good.

Thanks for all the info. I think the above has proved to be correct in her previous mating's. Of course there are are always other factors involved, but it indicates enough to me not to go back to a predominately Danehill line stallion.

I'm currently wading through lots of pedigrees and looking at the duplications.

Yes, Gay, I saw he was in the auction. I'm not in a position to have a stallion standing here though :-)

Thanks again for all the info. So much to consider, so much to learn :-)

Cheers

Phillip

http://www.equinehaven.com.au

Gay3

Moderator Group

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 52012

Post Options

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 17 Sep 2018 at 8:03pm

This guy's for sale tomorrow night on Bloodstockauction Wink

DARK LORD (NZ)

Sire: Zabeel 1986	Sir Tristram	Sir Ivor	Sir Gaylord Attica	2-s 8-g
	Sir Tristram	Isolt	Round Table All My Eye	2-f 6-e
	Lady Giselle	Nureyev	Northern Dancer Special	2-d 5-h
	Lady Giselle	Valderna	Val de Loir Derna	5-h 16-c
Dam: Abbaye 1989	Ahonoora	Lorenzaccio	Klairon Phoenissa	1-w 5-h
	Ahonoora	Helen Nichols	Martial Quaker Girl	2-e 1-m
	Cotehele House	My Swanee	Petition Grey Rhythm	16-g 8-j
	Cotehele House	Eight Carat	Pieces of Eight Klairessa	3-o 9-c

By ZABEEL (NZ) (B. 1986 - Stud NH:1999, SH:1991) Stakes-winner; won 7 racesand $1,138,400 inc. VRC Australian Guineas [G1], MVRC Alister Clark S.[G2]; sire of 166 SWs (47 G1) inc. Octagonal, Might and Power, Vengeanceof Rain, Sky Heights, Preferment, Efficient, Maldivian, Greys Inn, Mouawad, St Reims,Zonda, Dignity Dancer, Greene Street, Zavite, Lizzie l'Amour, Fiumicino, Champagne,Railings, Jezabeel, Savabeel, Bazelle, Zacheline, Reset, Lights of Heaven, etc.

1st DAM

ABBAYE, by Ahonoora (GB). 1 win at 1200 m. Half-sister to DANEWIN, COMMANDS. Dam of 12 foals, 10 raced, 8 winners-

TAIMANA (f. by Woodman (USA)). 6 wins at 1100, 1200 m. inc. Avondale JC Concorde H. [G2], VRC Schweppes 1100 , MRC How Now S. , Avondale JC Famis H. 3d MRC Tristarc S. [G3]. Dam of 4 winners-

Shelford (c. by Redoute's Choice). 3 wins at 1200 m. and $268,703 inc. Tattersalls Club (nsw) Royal Randwick Handicap, AuRC More Fm 1200. 2d AuRC Darley Plate [G3], ATC Canonbury S. . 3d ATC Todman S. [G2], Counties RC Counties Bowl H. . 4th Gosford RC Takeover Target S. .

KALBO. 7 wins 900 to 1400 m. and $83,225 inc. BRC Austcover No Metro Wins Handicap. 3d BRC Coca-Cola Amatil Benchmark 85 Handicap.

FANTASTIC FORCE. 4 wins 900 to 1400 m. inc. BRC QHA Class 3 H. 2d Tattersalls Rc (qld) Total Sports Travel 3YO H. 3d BRC Urban Loft Penthouse Class 6 H., Sita Environmental Class 4 H.

TARREGA. Won Sha Tin Saturn Handicap (1200 m.). 2d Sha Tin Being Famous H, Kwu Tung H, Lotus Bridge Handicap, Shui Long Wo Handicap.

Onlyarose (f. by One Cool Cat (USA)). 4 wins at 1000, 1200 m. 2d AuRC Newmarket H. , Laser Plumbing Te Puke 1200, Jr Webb & Son 1100. 3d WRC Lightning H. .

BEETHOVEN (c. by Zabeel (NZ)). 6 wins 1400 to 2000 m. and $1,067,687. Sha Tin The Hsbc Premier Plate, Audemars Piguet Royal Oak H., Lantau Peak H., The Sports Club Golden Jubilee Challenge Cup, H.K. University Alumni Assoc'n Challenge Cup, Shenzhen H.

BERIO (g. by Zabeel (NZ)). 5 wins at 1400, 1600 m. and $848,119 inc. Sha Tin Broadwood H., Amber Handicap. 2d Sha Tin The Hong Kong Racehorse Owners Association Trophy, New York H. 3d Sha Tin The Panasonic Cup H.

SHADOW CREEK (c. by Zabeel (NZ)). 2 wins at 1600 m. 3d VRC The Curragh H. Sire.

DIAGONAL (c. by Star Way (GB)). 2 wins at 1800 m. at 2 in South Africa.

JERVAUX (f. by Slavic (USA)). 1 win at 1300 m. 2d MVRC Village Blooms H. Dam of 5 winners inc.-

BERLIOZ (c. by Zabeel (NZ)). 8 wins 1700 to 3500 m. and $463,365 inc. VRC St Leger S. , David Rosenquist and Rosemary Shimmin H., SAJC Leslie Short Grand National Steeplechase, Morphettville Steeple M, MRC Emirates Airline Plate. 2d West Australian Derby [G1]. 3d WATC Melvista S. .

LETSGETITON. 6 wins 1400 to 2100 m. inc. WRC Irish Fling Cup. 4th Wanganui Cup .

MELBOURNE ROSE. 1 win at 1715 m. Producer.

DARK LORD (c. by Zabeel (NZ)). 1 win at 1600 m.

Ziggurat (c. by Zabeel (NZ)). Placed. 2d AJC Thirsty Merc Live 3/3 H. 3d AJC Zephyr Zing Maiden Plate.

Dust in the Wind (c. by Sir Tristram (IRE)). Unraced. Sire.

2nd DAM

COTEHELE HOUSE (GB), by My Swanee. Unraced. Half-sister to OCTAGONAL (STC Mercedes Classic - H.E. Tancred S. [G1]), MARQUISE (WRC Captain Cook S. [G1]), DIAMOND LOVER (AuRC Railway H. [G1]), MOUAWAD (VRC Australian Guineas [G1]), KAAPSTAD (VRC Sires' Produce S. [G1]). Dam of 14 foals, 11 raced, 9 winners inc.-

DANEWIN (c. by Danehill (USA)). 13 wins - 3 at 2 - 1200 to 2020 m. and $2,031,636 inc. AJC Spring Champion S. [G1], VRC L.K.S. Mackinnon S. [G1], STC Rosehill Guineas [G1], BATC Doomben Cup [G1], MRC Caulfield S. [G1], AJC Hobartville S. [G2], Royal Sovereign S. [G3], STC Frederick Clissold H. [G3], Gold Coast TC A.D. Hollindale Cup [G3]. 2d AJC Australian Derby [G1], VRC Victoria Derby [G1], AJC Epsom H. [G1], George Main S. [G1], Queen Elizabeth S. [G1], STC Gloaming S. [G2]. 3d STC Canterbury Guineas [G1]. Sire.

COMMANDS (c. by Danehill (USA)). 4 wins - 3 at 2 - at 1100, 1417 m. and $417,231. STC Missile S. [G3], VRC Concept Sports S. , STC Golden Slipper Festival H., Star City Roulette H. 2d AJC Galaxy S. [G1]. 3d MRC Caulfield Guineas [G1], AJC Expressway S. [G2], Tattersalls Club (nsw) Roman Consul S. [G3], MRC J.D. Macdonald S. . Sire.

JETSO. 18 wins 1400 to 1800 m. and $594,296 inc. AJC Total Sports Flying Welter H., Museum Of Contemporary Art P., McPhee Transport H., Richard Jones H. 4th Tattersalls Club (nsw) Tattersall's Quality Plate .

THEME SONG. 2 wins at 1200, 1600 m. AJC Toi Port H., STC Oatley H. 3d STC Shading H. Dam of 5 winners inc.-

EMERALD DREAM (f. by Danehill (USA)). 7 wins 1200 to 2000 m. and $178,225 inc. Waikato RC International S. [G1], Bay of Plenty RC Thames Valley S. [G3], AuRC Great Northern Challenge S. , Ellerslie Function Centre H., Lindauer Progressive H. 2d AuRC New Zealand S. [G1], Waikato RC Gasmate S. [G3], Hawke's Bay Guineas [G3]. Dam of 4 winners inc.-

ZABENE (c. by Zabeel (NZ)). 9 wins 1800 to 2500 m. and $169,478 inc. Otago RC Dunedin Cup , CJC Metropolitan H. , Brian Arnold's 60Th Birthday Rating 70, Christchurch Casino New Zealand Cup Trial, Christchurch Casino Dunedin Gold Cup Trial. 2d CJC New Zealand Cup [G3], Metropolitan H. [G3]. 3d CJC New Zealand Cup [G3], Otago RC Dunedin Gold Cup .

KNIGHT'S COMMAND (c. by Pins). 8 wins 1200 to 2000 m. and $385,228 inc. Singapore Admiralty Classic S. [Sin-3], Woodlands Classic Stakes [Sin-3], AuRC Newstalk ZB 1200. 2d Singapore Fortune Bowl [Sin-3]. 3d Singapore Jumbo Jet Trophy [Sin-3], New Year Cup [Sin-3].

ZED. 1 win at 1600 m. Sire.

Flawless. Started 8 times. Dam of 3 winners inc.-

SANDTOP (g. by Henrythenavigator (USA)). 8 wins 1500 to 2000 m. and $594,441 inc. Taipa Autumn Trophy [Mac-2], Spring Trophy [Mac-2]. 2d Taipa Macau Derby [Mac-1], Macau Guineas [Mac-1], Winter Trophy [Mac-2], 4 YO Prelude [Mac-3]. 4th Taipa Winter Trophy [Mac-2].

SPECIAL BOND (c. by Fairy King (USA)). 2 wins at 1200, 1600 m. WATC All Stars S. , Colts and Geldings Three Metro Wins H. 2d WATC Lindsay Rosenthal S. , N.J. Way S. , Venice H. Sire.

Mancini (g. by Zephyr Zip (NZ)). 5 wins 1200 to 1600 m. inc. AJC Denis Rowe H., STC Truscott's Toyota H., Gladesville Bowling Club H. 2d AJC Q.B.E. Insurance Limited H. 3d Tamworth JC Prime Television Quality H. .

BIG JESSE. 1 win at 1400 m. Sire.

Announce. Unraced. Dam of 5 winners inc.-

LISTEN HERE (f. by Elusive Quality (USA)). 3 wins 1000 to 1400 m. SAJC Cinderella S. , MRC Ladies' Day Plate, Azzurro H. 2d VRC Festival of Racing 1000. 3d VRC Flemington Birdcage 1100. Dam of 3 winners inc.-

SHOOTING TO WIN (c. by Northern Meteor). 4 wins - 2 at 2 - 1200 to 1600 m. and $996,225 inc. MRC Caulfield Guineas [G1], ATC Stan Fox S. [G2], Tab Early Quaddie Handicap. 2d Tattersalls Club (nsw) Ming Dynasty Quality H. [G3]. 3d ATC Golden Rose S. [G1], Randwick Guineas [G1]. 4th ATC Hobartville S. [G2].

DEEP FIELD (c. by Northern Meteor). 5 wins at 1100, 1200 m. and $390,300 inc. VRC Linlithgow S. [G2], City Tattersalls Club Lightning H. , ATC Tab Quaddie Handicap, Hyland Race Colours Handicap. 2d ATC Maurice McCarten S. [G3]. 3d VRC Lightning S. [G1].

Spectro Power (c. by Spectrum (IRE)). 7 wins 1200 to 1800 m. and $509,503. 2d Singapore Raffles Cup [Sin-1], Kranji Mile [Sin-2], Committee's Prize [Sin-3].

OTRAVEZ. 1 win at 1512 m. Dam of 7 winners inc.-

Red Fez (f. by Red Ransom (USA)). 3 wins at 1200, 1400 m. and $158,275 inc. VRC Maidstone Handicap, MRC D'Urban Hcp. 3d VRC A.V. Kewney S. [G2], MRC Angus Armanasco S. [G2], SAJC H.C. Nitschke S. .

Masterofceremonies. Unraced. Sire.

WYCOMBE. 1 win at 1200 m. 2d STC Blythe Spirits H. Dam of 9 winners inc.-

VILLA IGEA. 2 wins at 1015, 1200 m. inc. 1 at inc. STC Hartshill H. Dam of 8 winners inc.-

FAIR TRADE (g. by Danewin). 5 wins at 1400, 1410 m. and $678,368 inc. VRC C.S. Hayes S. [G3], Elms H., Sha Tin Chinese New Year Cup, Cotton Tree H. 4th Sha Tin Chairman's Trophy [HK-2], The Sprint Cup [HK-2], Jockey Club Mile [G2].

HEARTS AND ARROWS. 2 wins at 1300, 1600 m. Dam of 2 winners inc.-

Jonker (c. by Spirit of Boom). 2 wins at 900, 1100 m. at 2 and $169,960. 3d ATC The Run to the Rose [G2]. 4th ATC San Domenico S. [G3].

CATECOMBE. 1 win at 1000 m. 3d STC Marrickville H. Dam of 7 winners inc.-

IMPALER (g. by Dracula). 11 wins - 2 at 2 - 900 to 1600 m. and $835,450 inc. AJC Hobartville S. [G2], Challenge S. [G2], STC Canterbury Classic , Ipswich TC Eye Liner S. , AJC Special Conditions H., STC 3 YO H., Wyndham Estate Cup, Scone RC Emirates Park Scone Cup. 2d BTC Doomben 10000 [G1], Doomben S. . 3d AJC Royal Sovereign S. [G2], QTC Sir Byrne Hart S. [G2], Toowoomba TC Weetwood H. , City Tatt's Lightning S. .

Stratcombe (g. by Stratum). 7 wins 955 to 1213 m. and $308,564 inc. MVRC Essendon Mazda 55 Second Challenge Heat 14, City Jeep Grand Srt8 Handicap, MRC Visvanathan Memorial Plate, Manfred Philipps Handicap, Jb Medical Lasers 0 - 68 Handicap. 2d VRC Straight Six H. . 3d VRC Century S. .

Chalet Girl. Unraced. Dam of 7 winners inc.-

Monards (c. by Danehill (USA)). 4 wins 1400 to 1800 m. and $1,302,009. AJC 3 YO Conditions H., Sha Tin Kwong Wah H., The Police Cup, The Japan Racing Association Trophy. 3d Sha Tin Sha Tin Futurity Trophy [HK-3].

Starnui. Started once. Dam of 6 winners inc.-

STARMON (f. by Monolith). 4 wins 1600 to 2100 m. and $161,395 inc. Cranbourne Cup , MRC Orient H. 3d SAJC Centaurea Trophy , Waikato RC Fairdale Stud Fully Fledged 1400. Dam of 2 winners inc.-

GOGO GRACE (f. by New Approach (IRE)). 5 wins 1100 to 1600 m. and $249,854 inc. TRC Bow Mistress Trophy [G3], SAJC Adelaide Galvanising Handicap, Holdfast Insurance Handicap, Adelaide Hills Wine Region Handicap (heat of Star Of Christm. 4th SAJC Cinderella S. .

Bramshaw. Unraced. Sire.

Race Record: 6 Starts. 1-1-1 $7,600.
Won Bairnsdale Rc Riviera Links Resort Maiden Plate (1600 m.).2d Terang & District Rc Scott's Retravision Maiden Plate.3d Wimmera Rc Westvic Agspray Maiden Plate.


	Bay or brown horse	Foaled 2001

Edited by Gay3 - 17 Sep 2018 at 8:04pm

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!

Cityboy

Champion

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 873

Post Options

Quote Cityboy

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 17 Sep 2018 at 8:26am

Hi Philip
I also breed from a Viscount mare. A little disappointing so far with plenty of bad luck despite 2 minor winners from 2 runners so date.

I’ve also been using or considering a couple of the duplications you’ve mentioned above.

I’ve twice duplicated Sir Tristam in the same location as yours, via Zabeel, but results aren’t in yet. The duplications - A Dundeel 3yr old shows promise but hasn’t raced yet and an Ocean Park is currently cooking - so no results to report yet.

I’m also considering the Sir T / Eight carat dups via sons of Lonhro and like it. You might end up getting to that duplication before me.
The 2 runners/winners so far have been by sons of Danehill. Others might correct me but I don’t think the stats of sons of Danehill with Viscount mares are especially good. However Exceed and Excel has done OK as mentioned above (someone once mentioned to me this could be due to a Lomond connection?).

All of the suggestions above from other posters seem very good to me.

Finally, from your list of the things you need to achieve with your mare that you’ve listed above, I’d suggest that “straight legs” is by far the least important especially if you are keeping to run yourself. Therefore, personally I wouldn’t be worried about the 3x3 QFF duplication if you like the mating.
Best of luck.

Progold

Champion

Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3212

Post Options

Quote Progold

Thanks(1)

Quote

Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 10:53pm

If we are talking about foundation mares, Winx traces back to the Massey mare and her daughter Old Ebony bred by the Duke of Rutland in 1714 and what Bruce Lowe was later to dub the number 5 family. It contains runners like Secretariat, Doncaster, Djebel, Sadler's Wells, Sunstar, Native Dancer and Nureyev to name a few that had a fair influence on both racing and breeding.

Carioca

Champion

Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21830

Post Options

Quote Carioca

Thanks(0)

Quote

Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 10:28pm

Have a look at Vegas Showgal's 4th dam Gay Abandom, 2 colts I remember Gay Sierra equal top weighed Sydney 2yo 1956, El Khobar , brother and freakish, won Doomb.10k
as a 3yo transition horse then WFA , then off to the USA, 2 nuggets their mate.

kavg

Champion

Joined: 08 Jun 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3993

Post Options

Quote kavg