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Debate - Actuarial

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djebel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 2:57pm
DEBATE (AUS)Bay filly 2015 
So You Think
Bay 2006
High Chaparral
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Delsy
1975
1972
1-l
13-c
Kozana
Brown 1982
Kris
Koblenza
1976
1966
2-o
1-n
Triassic
Bay 1990
Tights
Bay 1981
Nijinsky
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Flaming Page
1961
1959
2-d
8-f
Dancealot
Bay 1971
Round Table
Music Please
1954
1963
2-f
16-g
Astral Row
Brown 1979
Long Row
Brown 1970
Linacre
Front Row
1960
1965
15-a
42>
Pak Bun Bay
Bay 1970
Matinee Idol
Philipolo
1956
1960
13-e
13-a
Alisa Free
Bay 2001
Favorite Trick
Bay or brown 1995
Phone Trick
Bay 1982
Clever Trick
Bay or brown 1976
Icecapade
Kankakee Miss
1969
1967
8-c
9>
Over the Phone
Chestnut 1965
Finnegan
Prattle
1956
1957
9-f
8-h
Evil Elaine
Bay 1984
Medieval Man
Chestnut 1974
Noholme
Peaceful Sky
1956
1963
1-u
10-c
Distinctive Elaine
Bay 1972
Distinctive
Jackie Dare
1966
1962
9-a
9-e
Blond Rocket
Chestnut 1992
Rory's Jester
Chestnut 1982
Crown Jester
Chestnut 1978
Baguette
Anjudy
1967
1969
6-c
13-e
Rory's Rocket
Grey 1973
Roan Rocket
Cantadora
1961
1964
13-c
1-m
St Trice
Bay 1974
St Crepe
Bay 1964
St Paddy
Crepuscule
1957
1948
14-c
16-d
Interrupted Melody
Bay 1968
Matrice
Legal Lady
1951
1958
7-d
1-o
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m,5m x

ACTUARIAL (AUS)Bay filly 2015 
So You Think
Bay 2006
High Chaparral
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993
Darshaan
Brown 1981
Shirley Heights
Delsy
1975
1972
1-l
13-c
Kozana
Brown 1982
Kris
Koblenza
1976
1966
2-o
1-n
Triassic
Bay 1990
Tights
Bay 1981
Nijinsky
Bay 1967
Northern Dancer
Flaming Page
1961
1959
2-d
8-f
Dancealot
Bay 1971
Round Table
Music Please
1954
1963
2-f
16-g
Astral Row
Brown 1979
Long Row
Brown 1970
Linacre
Front Row
1960
1965
15-a
42>
Pak Bun Bay
Bay 1970
Matinee Idol
Philipolo
1956
1960
13-e
13-a
Pentasia
Bay or brown 2007
Pentire
Bay 1992
Be My Guest
Chestnut 1974
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
What a Treat
Bay or brown 1962
Tudor Minstrel
Rare Treat
1944
1952
9-c
8-c
Gull Nook
Bay 1983
Mill Reef
Bay 1968
Never Bend
Milan Mill
1960
1962
19-b
22-d
Bempton
Bay 1976
Blakeney
Hardiemma
1966
1969
20-c
1-l
Ecstasia
Bay 2001
Singspiel
Bay 1992
In the Wings
Bay 1986
Sadler's Wells
High Hawk
1981
1980
5-h
9-e
Glorious Song
Bay 1976
Halo
Ballade
1969
1972
2-d
12-c
Titled
Bay 1996
Rainbow Quest
Bay 1981
Blushing Groom
I Will Follow
1974
1975
22-d
14-f
Her Ladyship
Bay 1991
Polish Precedent
Upper Strata
1986
1985
8-h
B3
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m,5m x 4m Sadler's Wells3m x 5m


Both fillies trained by John Hawkes, Both by So You Think both bred to do the complete opposite of each other.

One should be a good sprinter, Cerntainly has the owner to be top class and the other should be a middle distance plus type. Both trialled as their pedigrees suggest they should.

How long will it take for Hawkes to get Actuarial to her proper trip ?

I would expect Debate to debut over either a 1000m or 1100m, perhaps 1200. Actarial should kick off her career soon over 1400m+


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 6:17pm
Bid on one from same dam line as Debate at Easter sale. It ended up with A.Cummings so no idea where it is now.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 8:11pm
The trial before Debate's had one called Symi.
Owned by the same guy and ran very well. She went straight into the blackbook.
Fastnet Rock - Cats Whisker. Full sister to Catchy.

Debate looked to lose some momentum when she dipped in the final furlong.
That can sometimes be a worry injury wise,

I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by scamanda scamanda wrote:

The trial before Debate's had one called Symi.
Owned by the same guy and ran very well. She went straight into the blackbook.
Fastnet Rock - Cats Whisker. Full sister to Catchy.

Debate looked to lose some momentum when she dipped in the final furlong.
That can sometimes be a worry injury wise,



Have not seen race but I have money in account so thankyou 😆

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 7:47pm
Actuarial is from one of the British half bred families (B3).  

When that family was admitted to the studbook in 1969 with mare Lavant it was partly because her daughter Lucasland (x Lucero ) won a July Cup (6f) and a Diadem Stakes (6f), and her son So Blessed (x Princely Gify)  had won a July Cup (6f) a King George Sks (5f) a Nunthorpe Sks and a Cornwallis Sks (both 5f). 

Admittedly Lavant's grand dam Verdict (x Shogun) had won a Coronation Cup and Actuarial is out of a Pentire mare but there may be more speed in the family than you think.   

After all,  Pentasia won 8 of her 21 starts at 1100 and 1200m and was beaten at both her starts beyond 1200m.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 9:20pm
Good to hear djebel. $$$ Big smile
Maybe not a world beater but a winner all the same.
I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 2:43am
I don't care who daddy is as he isn't racing .

BETTER to look who was closest to the winner last start.

NOT who got closed to Mummy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 12:44pm
7. Debate (8)
 
R5 Gosford 1200m Maiden, 15:05pm
 
J: T Berry (56kg) T: M Wayne & J Hawkes

 
Career: 0:0-0-0Last10:ROI:
I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 9:08pm
$2.40 just a tad short for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018 at 5:07pm
Debate being vetted.

Currently $2.90 on best tote.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018 at 5:10pm
Nicish win.

Thread is 2 out of 2 thanks to scamanda. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018 at 5:10pm
Easy money djebel. Thumbs Up
I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018 at 5:13pm

ACTUARIAL

3yo Brown Filly
D.O.B: 12-Aug-2015
by SO YOU THINK (NZ)  from PENTASIA
View Pedigree Report
If you’re having trouble viewing video form, click here
StatusSpelling
Owner’s Details Mr G G Briscoe
Stewards EmbargoesNone on record
Emergency Vaccination Record(Click here for more details)
Last Gear Change*31-Aug-2017, Lugging Bit, First Time
TrainerMichael, Wayne & John Hawkes (Rosehill)
Racing ColoursPale Blue, Black Hooped Sleeves
CareerSummary: 0-0:0:0    Prizemoney: $0     Prizemoney incl. Bonus: $0
BOBS Bonus: $0    BOBS Double Up: $0    Other Bonus: $0 
1st Up: 0:0-0-0    2nd Up: 0:0-0-0     
Firm: 0:0-0-0    Good: 0:0-0-0    Soft: 0:0-0-0    Heavy: 0:0-0-0    Synthetic: 0:0-0-0 
Sand/Dirt Fast: 0:0-0-0     Sand/Dirt Wet Fast: 0:0-0-0
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 1:39pm
Thought you might be interested djebel.

Actuarial has trialed twice since the spell.
And in the weights for wednesday at Warwick Farm, Fillies Maiden R6 1400M.

I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 1:47pm
incredibly I was going to up date this. Looking forward to seeing her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 1:54pm
Might well end up with egg on my face, by why would you give a filly with this breeding to the Snowden's?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Might well end up with egg on my face, by why would you give a filly with this breeding to the Snowden's?


The Hawkes ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 2:11pm
Hawkes sorry, but same, same.

Don't find a whole lot from that camp being tried over some ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 2:20pm
True.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2018 at 6:12pm
$18 with Ladbrokes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2018 at 6:18pm
So You Think trifecta.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 7:29pm
Debate is nominated for both the Oaks and a sprint that is run on the same day 🤔😀🤔😀🤔😀
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 4:41pm
I see both have left the stable. 

One has gone to a far superior trainer if perhaps less ethical whilst the other has been banished to the bush. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 4:51pm
Debate = Maher
Actuarial = Tash Burleigh
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 4:53pm
Race 4 - BENCHMARK 58 HANDICAP (1650 METRES)
Of $22,000.1st $11,200, 2nd $3,900, 3rd $2,100, 4th $1,100, 5th $720, 6th $540, 7th $500, 8th $500, 9th $500, 10th $500, Equine Welfare Fund $220, Jockey Welfare Fund $220. 
BenchMark 58, Handicap, Minimum Weight 54kg, Apprentices can claim.
BOBS Bonus Available Up To $9625

Track Name: Main Track Type: Turf 

Field Limit: 12 + 4 EM

 Last 10HorseTrainerBallotWeight(kg)True Weight(kg)Penalty(kg)Benchmark
1x8449x6742TRYINGNorm Gardner1=626260
2395x175295CUBAN BELLERobert & Luke Price1=606060
356x1404089EVERLY GIRLMelissa Harrison1=606060
4021667x120MILLIJULENatalie Jarvis458.558.557
53354x88x60MRS WILLY NILLYRichard & Luke Clarke5585856
622x66551REFIREBOBS Bonus SchemeDanny Williams6=595954
70426640x07WHISPERED PRAYERMatthew J Stephens6=575754
885x1ACTUARIALBOBS Bonus SchemeTash Burleigh8=56.556.553
939213020x2GEORGIAN COURTNatalie Jarvis8=56.556.553
108x0765x331O’PRINCESS (NZ)Luke Pepper8=56.556.553
11652x535123PAHRULIMick Smith8=56.556.553
121438387x61GRASPGratz Vella12=585852
13891347x4SEPULCHREJoseph Ible12=565652
144356350x35OLD MAN’S ANGELTheresa Bateup14=57.557.551
154477x03358TAG AND RELEASEJoe Cleary14=57.557.551
164274712760BADGE OF GAMENESSMike Cattell16575750
170115567x50ADMIRE GRATZIGratz Vella17=56.556.549
18100x06x693SOLAR SHADOWRichard & Luke Clarke17=54.554.549
1934778x6087LORD CHAMBERLAIN (NZ)Graeme Shaw19565648
206450959x68MONTEREY MAGICGreg Stephens20555546
2128x7654467SHE EXCITESJohn Peiti215452.545
2298486x7254YEPPOONJenny Hoy225452.541
Race 5 - CLASS 2 HANDICAP(SCALED -1.0KG) (1425 METRES)
Of $22,000.1st $11,200, 2nd $3,900, 3rd $2,100, 4th $1,100, 5th $720, 6th $540, 7th $500, 8th $500, 9th $500, 10th $500, Equine Welfare Fund $220, Jockey Welfare Fund $220. 
Class 2, Handicap, Minimum Weight 54kg, Apprentices can claim.
BOBS Bonus Available Up To $9625

Track Name: Main Track Type: Turf 

Field Limit: 14 + 4 EM

 Last 10HorseTrainerBallotWeight(kg)True Weight(kg)Penalty(kg)Benchmark
1951951x43DRAKE THE PIRATEGreg Stephens159.559.560
242123x2FUSCABOBS Bonus SchemeJoseph Ible2=56.556.558
31x3290x532THINK LIKE A FOXDanny Williams2=56.556.558
42241IZZY LOOKING GOODBOBS Bonus SchemeJamie Stewart4=585857
5429x7x3326MAD FOXRobert & Luke Price4=585857
614x89x6178SOVIETBarbara Joseph, Paul & Matt Jones4=585857
77x31ROSY DAWNBOBS Bonus SchemeNorm Gardner7555555
822x66551REFIREBOBS Bonus SchemeDanny Williams8=56.556.554
947x666x286UH OHGraeme Shaw8=56.556.554
10x5653x0323SERIOUS DOUBTSMatthew Dale8=54.554.554
114923133x76STRATUM’S ROSEBOBS Bonus SchemeRon Weston & John Nisbet8=54.554.554
1285x1ACTUARIALBOBS Bonus SchemeTash Burleigh12=545453
1339213020x2GEORGIAN COURTNatalie Jarvis12=545453
1439525x6464AWAY SHE GOESLuke Pepper14545351
1554x82x0145THEATRE TICKETSLynda Bundy1554.554.550
1663474195x7REIGN OVER MEBarbara Joseph, Paul & Matt Jones16=545249
17100x06x693SOLAR SHADOWRichard & Luke Clarke16=545249
181227212225DEPRECIATIONNatalie Jarvis18=545245
193705x18x68LITTLE TIME GEMGarry Clarke18=545045
2027x4456008WHISKY’N’DIAMONDSGreg Backhouse18=545245
216987652746CAPTAIN CHARLIEMatthew J Stephens215450.542
Race 6 - CLASS 1 & MAIDEN PLATE (1650 METRES)
Of $22,000.1st $11,200, 2nd $3,900, 3rd $2,100, 4th $1,100, 5th $720, 6th $540, 7th $500, 8th $500, 9th $500, 10th $500, Equine Welfare Fund $220, Jockey Welfare Fund $220. 
Class 1, Set Weights, Apprentices can claim.
BOBS Bonus Available Up To $9625

Track Name: Main Track Type: Turf 

Field Limit: 12 + 4 EM

 Last 10HorseTrainerBallotWeight(kg)True Weight(kg)Penalty(kg)Benchmark
185x1ACTUARIALBOBS Bonus SchemeTash Burleigh155.553
20x1783HE’S ELUSIVEJohn Steinmetz25960
3691x088WALKINSHAWBOBS Bonus SchemeMike Cattell357.557
4465x123IL PROFESSIONALEBOBS Bonus SchemeKeith Dryden455.555
54923133x76STRATUM’S ROSEBOBS Bonus SchemeRon Weston & John Nisbet555.554
6891347x4SEPULCHREJoseph Ible65752
733NAMARARIBOBS Bonus SchemeKurt Goldman754N/A
883464624x3ARLINGTON MAGICKerry Parker854.5N/A
9x155x85243VALLEY OF LIGHT (GB)Robert & Luke Price95757
1068422x7277OPERA TICKETSThomas Lyttle1056.5N/A
11x5653x0323SERIOUS DOUBTSMatthew Dale115754
120x66824x72PINCH LEGENDDaniel Nickson1256.5N/A
138x82DEVIL DAN (NZ)Graeme Murray1355N/A
14x7x49734x3THE NOTORIOUSGreg Stephens1455N/A
153x53404x5CLERGYMANBOBS Bonus SchemeLauren Davies1555N/A
16563x84447DARK ALIBIBOBS Bonus SchemeBarbara Joseph, Paul & Matt Jones1654N/A
1798486x7254YEPPOONJenny Hoy175941
188x73843BOB’S ANGELBOBS Bonus SchemeMark Gee1854N/A
199x08863x5APACHE RUSHBOBS Bonus SchemeMichael Gatty1955N/A
20702GOODRADIGBEEBOBS Bonus SchemeMark Gee2055N/A
2139525x6464AWAY SHE GOESLuke Pepper215751
22660x756976CHAMPAGNE RUSHMichael Gatty2256.5N/A
235x090CASINO TIMEGratz Vella2354N/A
2450x47RULER OF ALLAaron Clarke2456.5N/A
2508x500x707SEEAROCKETChicka Pearson2556.5N/A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 5:01pm
Debate just won over 1300 at Hawkesbury.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Discohips23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I see both have left the stable. 

One has gone to a far superior trainer if perhaps less ethical whilst the other has been banished to the bush. 

I gather you are talking about Maher getting done for racing a horse for a banned participant in Peter Foster?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2019 at 4:14am

I do not have the courage to say yes to that query.


Edited by Gay3 - 26 Jun 2019 at 10:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:21am
If I was smart I'd be picking up cheapish broodmares from the racetrack as so many have been poorly managed and not remotely reached their potential. 
reductio ad absurdum
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:23am
Debates first mating. I like it.

Unnamed  
Pierro (AUS)
Bay 2009
Lonhro
Brown 1998
Octagonal
Brown 1992
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Lady Giselle
1971
1982
6-e
16-c
Eight Carat
Brown 1975
Pieces of Eight
Klairessa
1963
1969
3-o
9-c
Shadea
Bay 1988
Straight Strike
Bay or brown 1977
Mr Prospector
Bend Not
1970
1972
13-c
11>
Concia
Bay 1978
First Consul
My Tricia
1970
1974
5-f
8>
Miss Right Note
Grey 2003
Daylami
Grey 1994
Doyoun
Bay 1985
Mill Reef
Dumka
1968
1971
22-d
21-a
Daltawa
Grey 1989
Miswaki
Damana
1978
1981
16-g
9-e
Sky Song
Bay 1997
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Criquette
Bay 1990
Shirley Heights
Ghislaine
1975
1981
1-l
1-t
Debate (AUS)
Bay or brown 2015
So You Think
Bay 2006
High Chaparral
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Kasora
Brown 1993
Darshaan
Kozana
1981
1982
13-c
1-n
Triassic
Bay 1990
Tights
Bay 1981
Nijinsky
Dancealot
1967
1971
8-f
16-g
Astral Row
Brown 1979
Long Row
Pak Bun Bay
1970
1970
42>
13-a
Alisa Free
Bay 2001
Favorite Trick
Bay or brown 1995
Phone Trick
Bay 1982
Clever Trick
Over the Phone
1976
1965
9>
8-h
Evil Elaine
Bay 1984
Medieval Man
Distinctive Elaine
1974
1972
10-c
9-e
Blond Rocket
Chestnut 1992
Rory's Jester
Chestnut 1982
Crown Jester
Rory's Rocket
1978
1973
13-e
1-m
St Trice
Bay 1974
St Crepe
Interrupted Melody
1964
1968
16-d
1-o
 Ancestor duplications:Sadler's Wells4f x 4m
reductio ad absurdum
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