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4 Corners - Aquanita |
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Online Points: 41428 |
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I agree with Judge on the V'Landys issue. At least he faces the fact that there are issues, and they need to be dealt with. Unlike a lot of others who persistently think it can just go on untouched like it has since the year dot. He raises issues that many dont want to face. As Judge says, not all who are concerned with welfare issues are tree huggers . V'Landy can see the vultures hovering. And OMG those blokes and their horses out the car window segment !!! NOT a good look really At the same time it was a dull bit of work that just rehashed stuff thats almost been done to death.
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animals before people.
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Majestic
Champion Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 1303 |
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GYGT you must be from an ag background. I have sat on the fence when all the talk turns to the terrible treatment of our "sporting" animals. I am from an ag background and all of our animals are treated humanely. BUT when their time is up and they are beyond useful to the task they are bred,nurtured and cared for, we have to make a humane decision. Do we just take them to a back paddock and euthanise them peacefully (I have done this), do we send them to market, knowing the bidders represent abattoirs (I have done this also), do we just let them live on and deteriorate and die miserably (I have never done this). They are animals, they have a shorter lifespan than us humans.
Now thoroughbreds. Officially "we" breed 15,000 per year. 30% don't make it to the races and of the others only 30% win 1 race. When these horses are, as above, past their use by date, many find their way to other disciplines, but some/many/few/very few ? are surplus to requirements. What happens to them? Options: 1 let them die painfully like a lady in our district whom the RSPCA has prosecuted numerous times to no avail, she still owns and mistreats 2. Put them in a big paddock and make sure they are looked after withdrenching, farrier work and ample feed to live a good life until that humane decision needs to be made. (I do this now with 3 broodmare and 4 geldings all retired from racing and/or breeding) 3. Have the industry do a feasibility study into establishing protocols for farming retired thoroughbreds, cleaning their systems of racing drugs and supplements. 4. Have the thoroughbred industry provide funds to establish proper, humane, clean and OH&S accredited horse abattoirs where horses can be euthanised. If 3 and 4 could be viable, we then allow market forces dictate where the meat could/would go. This discussion, I think, should be an unemotional one by forward thinking people, not the radical Animal Liberationists, or vegans, etc. as well, this discussion I think should also include provision for the greyhound industry. Over to you all. |
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51987 |
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OH has made 3 of these for under $1k & you could easily use smaller gauge steel.
They're far safer, horses travel straight & they love it |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51987 |
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A couple of anti RSPCA posts on FB, in response to their offerings last night: Tara Mills Looks to me like they used that bloody Kim Hollingsworth's poor starved horses...... How long did it take for the RSPCA to go out and act on those horses behalf! Wayyyyy too long. And they only acted because the facebook attention was growing!! Janet Melvin RSPCA
what a load of useless mongrels. Have just left several thousand hens
to die from starvation for the last three weeks. All could have been
saved. How dare they take to the racing industry!!! I watched him one day kick a
geese to death.. I had seen numerous dead geese they did nothing I was
so upset we sold and moved. PETITION: Despite the RSPCA first being notified of the situation on the 10th of June, and being sent the shocking footage of the hens starving and dying on the 20th of June, so far not a single hen has been rescued from the property. Not only is this a clear case of animal cruelty and
negligence, it has also shocked the Australian public who trust and rely
upon the RSPCA to protect vulnerable animals. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Are the RSPCA inadequately resourced ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Last nights program was not motivated by or for the RSPCA, They were asked questions specially aimed at racing.
THEY were not out to attack racing last night. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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scamanda
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Location: The Manor Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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Are they legal in NSW Gay3? |
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I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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scamanda
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Location: The Manor Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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Most country people would agree with most of what you have posted. But not the 16 year old girl in the city. These days you'd be lucky to have the firearm to put an anmal down. If you can afford a vet or can find one that is willing to travel to put an animal down, good luck. The RSPCA's Chief Scientist says the abattoir is the preferred option. V'Landys says you can't do that in NSW. No win for NSW owners. The discussion you described would be great but don't hold your breathe. |
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I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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scamanda
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Location: The Manor Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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He came across like someone who was totally innocent and only interested in a fair go for all. But, he wasn't found innocent was he? And he certainly does have an axe to grind. He was a poor choice if 4 Corners wanted the show to look open and honest.
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I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Discohips23
Champion Joined: 01 Mar 2018 Status: Offline Points: 963 |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Who experiences the better quality of life, a racehorse or a battery caged hen? Thoroughbred are not specifically bred so that people can punt of them and there is nothing immoral about punting regardless.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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By Vlandys own admission these people are not going to stop and they have a whole list of complaints they are going to make so why would you cede them any moral authority whatsoever? All you succeed in doing is propping up your opposition it does not make you look more reasonable, if anything it makes them look like they have a point.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Liability? Irrespective there should have been consultation and warning.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51987 |
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What I will never understand is why dogs, cats, sheep, pigs, cattle etc must be registered by law & can therefore be followed from birth to death but not horses Some say "Oh another expense" but all the above cost & if you can't afford a small annual fee, you certainly won't be caring appropriately for them. Charge more for serving stallions too which would cut down some of these non TB backyarders who churn out stock solely to send to market totally unhandled & with an expectation of at least getting meat price for them. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Spearmint
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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Did you hear him say. " Even though we know the whips are padded and they don't hurt the horses, it is the 16 yo old girls perception that they do" If he believes that this is true then he is letting a persons perception force him to change the reality of the situation as he sees it..... |
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"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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All I can say is - if only there were more like you! Abattoirs are horrible things for animals. They sense, smell, and hear death long before being "stunned". Many would hope this was an absolute last resort. As you suggest, there are no simple, painless answers. Money must be spent and tough decisions made to clean up the worst of it while acknowledging realities.
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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Well Said, and with heart.....good on you.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Not according to the financials of the governing body when i last looked. How much and how that is used at the operational level may be the issue. Might be a good topic for 4Corners. Some of those who have posted on TBV about their experiences should consider emailing the ABC requesting them to look at the topic. They undoubtedly do a lot of good but are let down by instances quoted. They also have staff protection issues - including an "unsolved" murder at Mortlake - as we know from media reports over the years.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21811 |
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I have never liked V'landys full stop, an elitist class divider with very little knowledge off grass roots racing traditions, he's now in bed with the AFL doing a feasibility study on having a football ground in the middle of Randwick racecourse, 5yrs time if this blokes still here ...pokies? ...surely this is an April 1 joke.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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No gelati!!
Terry Bailey: Maybe I shouldn't have given Robert Smerdon's phone backBen Dorries Outgoing Racing Victoria chief steward Terry Bailey has conceded it was “maybe” a mistake, in hindsight, to hand Robert Smerdon’s mobile phone back to him rather than having it forensically examined. Speaking on Melbourne’s RSN radio, Bailey was quizzed on why stewards returned Smerdon’s phone after only a cursory examination on the day of the Aquanita raceday treatment bust at Flemington last spring. Doper Greg Nelligan’s phone turned up a treasure trove of thousands of explosive messages relating to raceday treatment and now Bailey admits stewards should have kept Smerdon’s phone rather than allowing him to leave with it. “Maybe we should have in hindsight, knowing what we subsequently knew after Mr Nelligan’s phone was imaged,” Bailey said on RSN. “I don’t think anyone in their wildest dreams would have suspected what came up on his (Nelligan’s) phone. “But we made a decision on the day … charges were proven and Mr Smerdon got a life ban.” The decision by stewards to return Smerdon’s phone without forensic imaging was one of the questions asked on the Four Corners ABC show on Monday night. Trainer Danny O’Brien also told Four Corners he believed the treatment he received from stewards over his cobalt case was far tougher and more thorough than the more polite approach taken with Smerdon. In stark contrast to handing Smerdon’s phone back, O’Brien said that when stewards raided his stables in 2015 they locked the stables down for two days and went through every piece of digital technology they could find. However Bailey, speaking on RSN, claimed there were stark differences in the cases. “With respect to the Danny O’Brien and (Mark) Kavanagh (cobalt) matters, we had three weeks headstart as far as being notified of irregularities and positive swabs, we had more time to get processes in place,” Bailey said. “The Aquanita business unfolded in the space of half an hour in space of one of our biggest days. “It (the differences between investigations of the cases) was purely preparation.” Trainer Mathew Ellerton told Four Corners he had alerted stewards many years ago of suspicious behaviour at Aquanita. Bailey says he has no memory of having such a conversation with Ellerton, although he concedes stewards knew of the Aquanita rumours for many years. “As far as the rumours, we have all heard the rumours but it’s a matter of having the evidence, we eventually got there,” Bailey told RSN. “We had measures in place for a long time with Aquanita, I must admit it was brazen what they were doing actually at the track, but we certainly weren’t sitting on our hands. “We knew the rumours and we were doing our best to get the evidence we needed. “Cases have shown in the past unless you catch them red-handed it is very difficult to prove.” Smerdon is appealing against his life ban from racing and against his $90,000 fine stemming from the Aquanita affair. Fellow Group I winning trainer Stuart Webb is also appealing his guilty verdict and the four-year disqualification he was handed for his role in the raceday treatment saga. They have joined fellow trainers Liam Birchley (banned for one year) and Tony Vasil (banned for three years) in appealing against the findings and the penalties. Bailey has worked his last day as Victoria’s chief racing steward and will soon take up a post in Singapore. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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V'landys is a responsible adult and a realist. His actions from very early on have been with the best interests of the industry moving forward. Their establishment of a retirement property shows they are serious about racehorse welfare. A good time to be doing these things because the industry won't always be awash with money. The whip rule is a concession which costs the industry nothing apart from a bit of angst. Don't follow his actions closely but can't ever recall him suggesting that breeders were part of the problem. They should be part of the $$$$ solution
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Like many Carioca you're confusing the ATC with RNSW.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Every one of them should be chipped Gay.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Think I said that on another thread and someone said they are???? If so it can only be lack of regulation and interest which stops lifetime tracking.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Whilst I would agree padding the whip was a good move the whip rule is fundamentally irrational from Vlandys premise that the padded whip doesn't hurt the horse. Simple question, if the padded whip doesn't hurt the horse why do you need to limit its use? The whip rule creates the impression that it hurts the horse.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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I'm convinced Bailey's not the sharpest tool in the shed. His statement that they knew about Aquanita rumours for years and had made efforts to find evidence is at odds with his failure to follow protocol (assuming Thompson's comment is correct) with the phone. In any case even if examination of phones is discretionary here's Bailey with Aquanita head trainer's phone and he doesn't consider the opportunity that provides? Doubt Smerdon is stupid enough to keep incriminating messages but you never know your luck in the big city.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Most racing fans know the even simpler answer to that. I'm surprised (cough) you can't work it out for yourself. It's distinctly possible that tongue ties might eventually go for the same reason, although I can't say I know anything about the physical discomfort/"danger" they present to horses.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Interesting background on tongue ties
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scamanda
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Location: The Manor Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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Smerdon got a life ban didn't he? So Bailey did OK in the end. Ellerton bringing a matter to the attention of a steward without evidence is going to lead to a dead end and wasted time. Had he given them solid evidence then they could do something. That is what I took from last night. Mind you only the surface was touched. On the chips you mentioned. In Qld we are probably behind the rest of the world but, as far as I know only stud dogs are chipped, or those registered in certain shires. Unless that has changed in the last few years. Cattle, sheep, goats, pigs most certainly are not. But they are very closely monitored by PIC numbers, brands, LPA Accreditation, eNVDs and probably more I have forgotten. Cats should be desexed at birth. If not, put down. Far too many running around wild killing wildlife.
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I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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