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Timeform - Battaash is as good as Vain |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 2:53am |
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Timeform ratings have been the subject of much debate and deserved derision on TBV in the past but the latest ratings must surely be the nail in their coffin as far as credibility goes.
As noted by Speediskey in the Merchant Navy (ret) thread they have determined that a limited 1000m English sprinter (Battaash 6w4p-12) is in their eyes the equal of some of our very best male sprinters, and only fractionally behind both Winx and Black Caviar after the girls' allowance.
Yes this winner of a single French Group 1 is supposedly as good as Vain, Manikato and Todman and only 3lb/1lb inferor to Black Caviar/Winx respectively. Fortunately the UK monkey spanking hasn't yet extended to Bernborough (138), but give them time. 2018 Timeform Ratings (historical ratings in italics) Bataash 136 Black Caviar*, Vain, Manikato, Todman 136 Winx* 134 Harry Angel 132 Blue Point 126 * mares receive 3lbs under the Timeform regime according to the link below Timeform Ratings here: https://www.timeform.com/horse-racing/features/global-rankings/2018-timeform-global-rankings-1842018 Discussion (aka Battaash bullgelati?) can be found here: https://www.timeform.com/horse-racing/features/rowley/best-horse-in-the-world-how-ratings-can-help-to-evaluate-21112017 This article was written before Blue Point easily defeated Battaash over his fav distance in the King's Stand (lol) Tip? if Timeform is even in the ballpark (they weren't as far as BP goes in the King's Stand obviously) that would mean Blue Point should be winning the Newmarket G1 Juy Cup comfortably, currently $5 fav. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Sorry for the misspelling's of Battaash, it's late.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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What really needs to be asked is, how do they come with a rating for Vain, it goes against everything they preach ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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?
TF Au has always undervalued our horses imo, as much as TF UK overrates theirs perhaps? They've had historical ratings for years.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Historical ratings are a load of bullgelatie.
Timeform UK have been going continuously since about 1947. They do not pretend to rate anything prior to that. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Vain
Champion Joined: 23 Nov 2010 Status: Offline Points: 622 |
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Sacrilege.
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Keep them honest
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21702 |
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You may like to refer to Vains win in the George Adams mile at Flemington, when having his third run in a week ( all unbeaten) carrying 10 pounds over WFA, your bias towards English performances can be overbearing at times and I doubt you know much of our past champions performances. |
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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Official rating is 123. That still looks 5lbs heavy to me. He was upped 7lbs for winning a Gr2 last year. That's where the garbage set in. Timeform boys have obviously been enjoying a long lunch with lots of coke while sniffing each others farts again.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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I have Vain and Black Caviar so far superior to Battaash it is not funny. I have never had Battaash even as the best in UK, It was the only thing I got right at Ascot last week. Vain was never rated by Timeform. The ratings posted by Timeform Australia go agianst everything they tell us as to how they come to a figure. Their numbers for Vain and Tulloch can not have been correlated in the same manner that Nature Strip earned his rating. Now you might want to discuss Nature Strips rating if you can find it for winning an off season benchmark race. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31302 |
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Easy money for the super poms in the Everest then.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21702 |
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ATM nature strip doesn't rate with me djebel, he's promising but underexposed imo.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Harry Angel 26 and Blue Point 51 would be value if you knew they were coming.
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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He's had 8 starts, he's fully exposed. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31302 |
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While I don't rate them that highly I do think the Everest is wide open to foreign incursion in 2018 as the locals are not great at the Everest distance. With one possible exception- TA- I can never get a handle on him.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21702 |
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Against what? anything of note. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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That is not what Timeform ratings are about.
Now we are getting somewhere. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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By my Ratings = On 1st August ... Trapeze Artist starts his 4Y/o Rating On 29K Nature Strip start his on 21K Kementari starts his on 27.5 Winx most recent rating 30 Happy Clapper most recent 28 |
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scamanda
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Location: The Manor Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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The Oxford Dictionary has just updated the meaning of Bullsh!t.
It now reads 'see Timeform rating for Battaash'.
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I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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You can use timeform for power rankings of historical performances in major European races.
For anything else they're basically worthless. |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21702 |
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Nice to see things from both eyes.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Lol Scamanda, Ithink you're being kind. I did have a very different title for the thread but thought I'd tone it down. I have no doubt they continually underrate our horses comparatively but even the dullest wit at Timeform UK should have seen how ridiculous the Battaash rating was in comparison to Winx for example.
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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In 2 races this season 2 horses have rated above Winx by way of the 2k allowance . ( Cliff Carey's) 1950's method) Humidor & Happy Clapper .
Both Won their next suitable Race start. |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31302 |
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I don't know what you mean by suitable race for Humidor. CC, CP, MC not suitable?
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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He didn't get a suitable race until he did his usual , erratic run to beat a few slow ones , early in his next prep. ( I loaded up ) . Happy Clapper won the Doncaster at his very next start. I've always expected Humidor to knock off a top field at 100/1 , The Bastaxd has the ability but one bad horse. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Are these good arguments for Winx ? What you are saying is, She has not been the best horse in those wins ? |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17265 |
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Timeform is only good for toilet paper
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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He's had 8 starts, he's fully exposedPut that next to Scamanda's Battaash definition.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Of course he is Australian trained, He will still be unexposed after 28 starts. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Do not know if you have ever purchased any of their books but I can tell you it is not printed on good toilet paper.
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reductio ad absurdum
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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No middle distance horse has ever put 25 wins together. Not easy. Winx has been exposed to the unsuitable lead up sprints and overcome several vulnerable situations with sensational sectionals. Her 4 wide run all the way in the last Cox Plate , took a Course Record to hold Humidor off. Of course i'm not knocking the best we have seen . I'm more pointing out there is very few Kilo's between Very good Horses. I will probably start laying her in the next Cox Plate , at the stupid prices. ( to Trade of Course ) I'm expecting Kementari to come back a real force to be reckoned with in the Spring too. |
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