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Dark Dream |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Posted: 09 Jun 2018 at 6:15pm |
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How many of you guys backed Dark Dream last start ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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He beat me two starts ago, then I got on last start and was already heavily invested for today.
Great ride and win. Looked the winner a long way out.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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No matter what way you watch today's race the winner is the best horse coming out of it.
He settles perfectly. He acts on all going. He has tactical speed. He stays at least 2200m. I was on the runner up and can not complain about anything.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Yet on the dam-side bred to go fast for 995m and then faint.
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6643 |
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Isn’t that damline the one that has given us other Derby winners including LEICA LOVER and NOTHIN LEICA DANE? |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25067 |
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Go back a bit SC it is the Lady Chester family of which the above two are members. While All American has a great mudder stayer in Strawberry Road in his pedigree so we should of know it would swim. Actually hate to sound silly but where are the nay sayers for a middle distance horses. The three year olds have swept the board and the Brisbane Cup was 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Yes indeed, however the last four generations have departed a very long way away from the earlier tail female line, commencing when Leica Chance went to Kingdom Bay.There's no Sir Tristram, Pretendre or Ribot in this pedigree as was the case with Nothin Leica Dane and Leica Lover.
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18699 |
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If I have ever seen a 4yo who would be suited to the Cox Plate, he is it.
Of course the MV track is one which has hindered Sydney horses, and her majesty is back for an encore, but as stated he can sit up on speed, he handles all conditions and can run good time. He could have run a good second today, and he would have been praised (the runner up with the aid of the inside had his chance to win), but he knuckled down and I have nothing but respect for the owners not taking the Hong Kong offer Spring here we come |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Progold
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
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Second dam is a half sister to Willy Leica who was second in a Grand Prix in Brisbane and won to 2000m. There is also a chance of horses for courses. Is Dark Dream a true stayer now he has won a Derby, which incidentally was run on an odd distance at Doomben. Had the race been run at Eagle Farm, there is probably little doubt we would be talking about Youngstar right now. She is the horse to follow out of the race.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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She would still have had to make up a lot of ground. He settled midfield and mad a mid race move before settling again. I would imagine he had been just as strong at the end of 2400m at Eagle Farm as he was at 2200m at Doomben. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Good post.
Thing is the tail female line is essentially speedbased, yet for the most part its better performers over recent years are when the females have been covered by strongly bred sires. Willy Leica being the latest, his dam having visited a sire from the Sadler's Wells sire line. Sorry if we're boring the racing fans.
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Progold
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
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Latarmiss was a very underrated sire, but closely related to Green Desert, Twining and Press Card, all pretty much speed stallions. With Sadler's Wells being a full brother to another predominant speed influence in Fairy King, that would support a theory that the female line is responsible for Dark Dream getting a little further than his pedigree would appear to suggest at least on face value.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Every year people get carried away with Qld 3yo form.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45319 |
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Which doesn't mention that Green Desert, Twining and Press Card all hail from predominantly sprinter/miler sire lines. And would also query Fairy King as a "speed influence" internationally. But we digress. |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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RED HUNTER
Champion Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: PERTH Status: Offline Points: 16334 |
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In case it hasn't been mentioned KERRY PARKER learnt from the astute LES BRIDGE.
(I think)...Carioca,input please.
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RED HUNTER
Champion Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: PERTH Status: Offline Points: 16334 |
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Les won the MELBOURNE CUP with KENSAI
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Speediskey
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
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Do they? I feel like QLD form is generally under rated. Coming up here 'makes' a lot of young horses. Winx, Press Statement, Zoustar all really developed into the stars they were from their trips to Queensland.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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To clarify - Every year people get carried away with Qld 3yo form immediately after the races.
Winx is the exception to every rule. Have a look at the Qld Derby and Oaks winners and Melb spring feature race winners. Duplicates are rare. Waller is one of few who targets Qld with late comers - like The Autumn Sun.
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Speediskey
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
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Just recently we've had fairly good horses in Oaks and Derbies up here. Winx/Werther/Egg Tart are all fairly top draw horses. Obviously it's hit and miss between the years, but I feel like they're just as good a form reference if not better than the Victorian/SA/NSW equivalents.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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Yes he did a Red Hunter, according to a story I have read spent 5 years with Les, he would have been a good man to work for , I left Sydney in /66 so KP would have been there well after, he seems well grounded and that's a gutsy horse he's got. |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18699 |
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Done a slight stats test.
Since 2000, the Caulfield Cup has seen 8 winners and 16 placegetters come through the Sydney classics (including the Rosehill Guineas and Vinery Stakes in that). Queensland has seen 1 win (Ethereal) + 3 4ths. I thought Gai's Tullamore had raced in Brisbane but I can not find any reference, and he ran third in 2011 at Caulfield. |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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I am always sceptical about the right formlines for ANY race. Where did Boom Time come from ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18699 |
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I am sure that he ran in the W.A.Derby as a 3yo djebel, but Jamal would be able to confirm or deny that. I seem to remember him running 4th to the top filly of a few seasons back.
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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horlicks
Champion Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8373 |
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Ran 3rd to Delicacy in the 2015 WA Derby
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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There is just no hard and fast way of directing a horse to either Cup.
You have to make your selection/s on an individual basis.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Prince of Penzance
Champion Joined: 17 Jan 2018 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1938 |
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Owner Mary Jane Basson hoping Dark Dream can smoke his rivals on way to spring carnival glory
June 10, 2018 5:53pm NATHAN EXELBYThe Courier-Mail OWNER Mary Jane Basson has already knocked back a $2 million offer for her Queensland Derby winning “baby” Dark Dream, who she now hopes can take her all the way to spring carnival glory. Whether that is this year, or next, Basson doesn’t mind. “He’s still growing. After he has a spell he will come back a bigger, better and more powerful horse than he already is,” she said. “He’s a work in progress. We will see how he enjoys his spell. Clearly Melbourne is the goal, if not this year, definitely next year. He will let us know.” Dark Dream is an unlikely Group 1 winner, as he is from a mare that was saved from a doomed fate because Basson happened to be in the right place at the right time. “I was at a broodmare sale, with no intention of buying a broodmare,” Basson explained on Radio TAB’s Past The Post. “I was with a friend having coffee in the sun and suddenly I saw this beautiful grey mare in the ring that was about to be knocked down to the ‘doggers’ and I put my hand up and for the princely sum of $800 Buchanan Girl became mine. “We went to All American first up, we got a filly the first time who was regrettably struck by lightning when she was a yearling. She was an outstanding type and it broke my heart. “So I went back to All American and the second time we got Dark Dream. As a baby he had a rather prominent parrot mouth and very wonky legs and was nothing like his beautifully conformed sister. “To have one struck by lightning and one turn around and win the Derby I think it’s the same odds for both events happening.” Offers have been rolling in for Dark Dream for a number of weeks. In particular after he dominated the Rough Habit Plate last month. But Basson has politely declined all offers. “I knocked back $2 million, which was an extraordinarily generous offer, but he’s like my baby and you just can’t sell family, it’s as simple as that,” she said. “I said to Kerry (Parker) a number of years ago I would get him his first Group 1 and to come good on that promise has been a marvellous thing for both of us and indeed the whole stable.” Dark Dream is yet to miss a place in 10 starts, with his ‘worst’ effort being third in the Grand Prix, where he lost a shoe and “about two inches of wall on either side”, plus having a nail pierce through the sole of his foot. “We iced it the first day, poulticed it for another two days to make sure there was no infection, then the farrier put the shoe on and he was as good as gold,” Basson said. |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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Great story that, noticed a lot of hoof filler to build up the wall on tv , the farrier has done a top job, congratulations all round.
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Cityboy
Champion Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 873 |
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Yes a fantastic story. I hope it gets better and he wins the Melbourne Cup for them. But $2m was a great offer for a gelding. I would’ve snapped it up in a flash.
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