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Stallion suggestions - Duty With Honour |
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Second Chance
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Terrific stuff guys and gals. Will have a good look at the most recent suggestions.
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Second Chance
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And whoops, thanks to the member who gave Magnus the thumbs down on condition and attitude.
Don't know who he or she is, however the third party who on-forwarded the advice suggested it came from a most reliable source. They hope it helps in decision making & very much appreciate the acknowledgement
Edited by Gay3 - 11 Jun 2018 at 10:15pm |
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Einstein
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How about Highland Reel? The Galileo x Danehill works extremely well, and with century and Bletchingly in her lines, would keep some sprint in with the chance to get over distance.
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Second Chance
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Progold might agree with you mate.
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Progold
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Another look at the mare and possible matings and a couple of other options especially at the lower range of the market.
Fighting Sun has been doing a good job and is a solid looking mating. On a similar line, Sports Edition is also by Northern Meteor out of a Biscay or Bletchingly line mare. Master Of Design and Delightful Choice are two sons of Redoute's Choice who aren't doing that bad a job at a budget fee. One new interesting prospect is a second season stallion called Swear by Redoute's Choice out of a Show A Heart mare with a second dam by Centaine. It is certainly an interesting mating, and there would appear a lot of positives. A little bit inbred for me, but there are enough positives in my view that it can be considered with a deal of confidence. He certainly had plenty of talent on the track, and not convinced he was a Derby type. I think worth a punt at the price in a mating that should probably appeal to a few on pedigree.
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Second Chance
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Swear has been well and truly on the radar.
The match is quite similar to King of Prussia over the mare, but substituting Danehill 3 x 3 for for Danzig 3 x 4. As you infer that all-male Danehill cross at 3 x 3 might be a bit close and overall isn't a particularly successful cross. Master of Design would provide has that same cross also. Decisions, decisions.
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Mr Prospector
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Super One is apparently throwing nice foals and the pedigree would give you the I am invincible type reinforcements in a different order plus on paper he looks like he might like a Danehill influence as well .
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lulu
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Hey SC,
One not mentioned is Artie Schiller. Being back in Vic and should get in around the 10k I'd assume. You would have a yearling ( hopefully) on the back of arguably his best bred crop of 2yos up and running, and a decent number too. His best IMHO is Flying Artie who was out of a Rubiton mare with Star Kingdom back in the 5th remove, along with another dose of the marvel Better boy. I see DWH has Century and a double dose of Star Kingdom through Biscay. Just a very quick thought. |
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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.
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Progold
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Duplication of Danehill 3x3 by and large has not been overly successful, but then again 3x3 of any stallion has a low success rate. Most success would seem to be from sex balanced duplications, and again that is reflected in overall duplications. While my database is limited, what I have found of the successful Danehill all male 3x3 duplications that have been successful, it is the Biscay type cross also present. Biscay is obviously from the Hyperion/Star Kingdom sire line, and Hyperion is found as the damsire of Nearctic, the dam of Northern Dancer. He is also found as the sire of Alibhai, the damsire of His Majesty in the pedigree of Danehill.
We often underplay the importance of Hyperion in the pedigree of Northern Dancer, and also Danehill, so it may be that factor is a positive in the instance of a Swear mating. Just further on some of my Hyperion theories, he was only a relatively small horse, like Northern Dancer incidentally. Northern Dancer, like Danehill, often threw two different types. Both could throw a big robust (almost carthorse) type, and regularly a smaller, more compact type but not an overly fine boned typed in most cases. Often their progeny would be at both ends of the distance aptitude as well, from sprinters to middle distance/stayers. It is that duality in type that often can be a key to duplication of a stallion in my view. In my experience, it is often the duplications through sons that are at either end of the spectrum that often have greater success in the case of Northern Dancer. Danzig/Nijinksy is the classic case of more of the sprinting type in Danzig vs the staying type in Nijinsky. As an aside, dosage is a useful tool in this type of assessment. On the negative of this mating in particular, it would seem that Redoute's Choice and West Point were relatively similar in aptitude, so this little aside probably hasn't cleared up much.
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lulu
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On further perusal I see that Flying Artie had a double dose of Star Kingdom as well. 5 x 6. Cheers |
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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.
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Einstein
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If you look at Frankel, who Galileo x Danehill - same as Highland Reel, and then look at Frankels progeny, he has quite a few winners 3 x 3 of Danehill, hence why I suggested Highland Reel.
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Progold
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I honestly do not think that Frankel is an accurate comparison to any other stallion. His book of mares was simply remarkable. Nevertheless, of his stakes horses to date, Danehill Dancer is the only Danehill stallion that I can find at first glance so it is perhaps not a great advertisement for a Danehill duplication.
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Einstein
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Apologies, it is Danzig that Coolmore suggest, more so than Danehill himself.
An extra line of
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Progold
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A lot of really good people at Coolmore, but with respect, I would urge caution when taking pedigree advice from any stud.
In the case of the Danzig duplication in Frankel's progeny, we see that this comes with further lines of Northern Dancer. Going back to my original post, we can reflect upon the different nature of ND sons with Danzig and Sadler's Wells being the two sons in Frankel's pedigree. Perhaps we are building on the ND influence rather than the Danzig duplication.
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Progold
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My apologies for not commenting further on this question, but it was one that was always going to take a bit of time. It might also be more appropriate for this to be moved to the Stallions section. Firstly, the performance of Elvstroem and Haradasun bear little importance on the performance of Highland Reel at stud. Clearly he is a very different prospect although he hails from the same family. Importantly, both Haradasun and Elvstroem have shown they can produce a good horse. I believe that if a stallion can do that, it is often the breeders rather than the stallion that are more responsible for the failures. In the case of Elvstroem, it was often the largely outcross pedigree that resulted in his best progeny. Having said that, Hucklebuck, clearly his best son saw a number of lines of ND together with Biscay although nothing closer than 4x5. This is rather remarkable when we see that Elvstroem himself had no inbreeding within five generations, and many could argue that this lack of inbreeding was going to impact negatively on his impact as a stallion. But I digress from the point which is Highland Reel. One of the big plusses of course is just how good a racehorse he was, especially when we consider that Victoria often gets the second level of performers compared with NSW. Highland Reel of course has far more inbreeding than Elvstroem, and this could be of benefit. However, we do see a bit of this is Northern Dancer in the forms of Sadler's Wells/Galileo and Danzig/Danehill. It will be difficult to find a lot of outcross pedigrees for Highland Reel so we must consider how best to utilise these ND lines. Most likely we need to stay away from additional lines of Sadler's Wells and Danehill so this will be quite difficult, but I would be looking at pushing this further back if necessary. Daughters or granddaughters of Encosta De Lago could be considered but again, a little query for me over duplicating Fairy Bridge too often. In the case of a possible mating with Duty With Honour, we see a close duplication of Danehill. Is this ideal? Perhaps it is, because Galileo clearly has not had the success here as overseas. Possibly we need to breed away from the Sadler's Wells line, and maybe this is the best way. Personally, it is a more risky strategy, although one that will be recommended in certain cases, and in this instance, the mare has had success with close inbreeding so this may be one of those cases. The other positive here is that Highland Reel obviously owed much to his strong colonial line, and breeding to that Star Kingdom/Bletchingly/Biscay/Marscay line could be a key locally. Again Duty With Honour ticks this box, so another positive in the mating. By and large though I would generally suggest breeding away from Danehill line mares in most cases. Unlike Elvstroem and Haradasun, Highland Reel pushes the more extreme stamina influence of Zamazaan further back in the pedigree and this is not a bad thing in the case of most local stallions. Grandsons of Zabeel, and even great grandsons are having a bigger impact than his sons as an example. Along with this, pushing Sadler's Wells influence a little back in the sire line is a likely positive under local conditions. I think Highland Reel will take some planning when utilising, but he had a deal of speed, so it is not out and out speed lines that are required. I would not be concerned with ND line stallions but would suggest that some speed lines need to be in the pedigree relatively close up. In general though, I would probably favour mares from families that have produced plenty of the miler types rather than the real early 2yo type families. By and large I would probably baulk a little as well with close up stamina lines. Highland Reel isn't going to regularly produce early 2yo's, so the Australian market will always struggle a little with him, but given good opportunity, I think he will certainly produce some quality runners. A few stallions whose daughters/grandaughters could work include Mossman, Iglesia/Written Tycoon, Charge Forward, More Than Ready, Bel Esprit etc. The trick is finding these sort of lines without close up Danehill lines. |
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lulu
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Another stallion who matches beautifully is Exosphere. His first foals sold well with good reports and I believe when I last spoke with them at least, that you would just sneak into your price range.
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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.
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lulu
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Sorry I thought your max was 15. I see it is 14. You would need 15 + for Exosphere. |
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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.
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Mumtaz
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I heard from a friend yesterday that Exosphere (and his sire) is booked out.
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Second Chance
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Yes Exosphere comes up ok, though I'm happy if he's fully booked as it costs a fortune to send a mare from Vic to the Hunter for any length of time.
Plus of course Darley is great at selling clients semen, but pretty useless when selling any resultant foal.
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lulu
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Ok Mumtaz. Not surprised there I suppose. My mail was a few weeks old which is a long time these days. On that note, I have never known so many stallions to be booked out so soon before.
Makes a bit of a mockery of the stallion inspection open days. For many of them anyway! |
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You're either Einstein or Frankenstein in this game.
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acacia alba
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Got a friend who bought a mare for 3 thousand $$ ,,,sent her to Exosphere and got a cracking colt , who just sold for $160 thousand,,,,he is over the moon,,,but,,the colt was black, and the chinese love black horses, and China Horse Club bought him. Some times you can get lucky.
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animals before people.
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Second Chance
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Am extremely happy as Duty's King of Prussia colt Yulong January aka Harry won very well on debut in the first at Swan Hill today, making mum's record four to race for four winners.
Still haven't decided where to send her this season but will either go back to King Of Prussia at $2,200 or ramp up to something more expensive and marketable.
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Second Chance
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The following from the Thoroughbreds Victoria newsletter: exciting times. Boutique Wangaratta breeders Allan and Cheryl Price were happy
campers after the win on debut by the Yulong owned, Ciaron Maher/David Eustace
trained colt Yulong January in the first at Swan Hill last Monday. The bay colt jumped well and settled outside the co-leader
before forging away over the last 150 metres to win by two lengths with
something in hand. The win also demonstrated the enormous value of having Zhang
Yuesheng’s Yulong Investments, a major new Chinese investor in Australian
racing and breeding, headquartered in Victoria. While Yulong have purchased at
the top end at yearling sales over recent years, they have also been a prolific
buyer of lesser profile Victorian bred yearlings. This was the fourth win from as many starters for the Price’s
broodmare Duty With Honour, a city winner herself and whose brother to Yulong
January in Justify That was a dual stakes-winner of over half a million
dollars. Yulong January is by the Greta West stallion King of Prussia,
and was reared by Bucklee farm’s Leeanne Smith. Allan and Cheryl give great credit to the McCarthy’s at Greta
West as well as Smith and her dedicated staff at Bucklee Farm, recommending
both establishments to anyone looking for superior care of their broodmares,
foals, yearlings or spellers. The colt was purchased by Mr Zhang for just $20,000 at the
Inglis Premier Sale in 2017. Allan indicated that an adverse X-ray of the
stifle was the reason for that modest price, however Allan and Cheryl could
hardly stifle a smile after the colt’s decisive win! The mare’s two-year-old Cluster colt is currently with premier
Goulburn trainer Danny Williams. Williams, who has a high opinion of the
youngster, was quick to nominate him for both VOBIS Gold and Magic Millions. The win provided welcome compensation for the Prices, as their
triple stake-winning home-bred 3YO Money Maher (Al Maher) unfortunately tore a
suspensory ligament in the South Australian Derby and faces a lengthy
rehabilitation. But, as Allan Price, reflected, “that’s all just part and parcel
of the breeding business, you need to put the hits behind you and forever look
to the future.” |
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Gay3
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Fabulous breeding achievements with this mare, not that it translates to $$$ in the bank
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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furious
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Looks like a great win also.
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slowdown
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Congrats guys, really pleased for you both.
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Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Second Chance
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Thanksfolks.
Have been keeping an eye out for your horse Slowdown, but no nominations. Hope things are ok with the galloper.
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slowdown
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Should trial again Tuesday. After his last trial he got a bit of a cold. Caught it on time and has been back in work this week. Half mile evens yesterday and heart rate etc great so we push on
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Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Second Chance
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Well can you believe it, I finally decided on an outcross!
Was offered a very significant price reduction on Frosted, on type a perfect match for the mare and who should prove quite commercial. Thanks for everyone's input. |
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djebel
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reductio ad absurdum
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