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Australasia's 100 greatest female racehorses |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Posted: 04 Jun 2018 at 4:54pm |
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In chronological order
1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline 1873.....Briseis 1870.....Hilda 1886.....Cynisca 1887.....Lady Zetland 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform 1900....Gladsome 1900....Sweet Nell 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist 1910....Warstep 1911....Carlita 1912....Desert Gold 1918....Furious 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle 1929....Silver Scorn 1933....Rivette ntb 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1942....Soneri 1946....Sweet Spray 1946....Chicquita 1952....Evening Peal 1953....Yahabeebe 1955....Wiggle 1957....Wenona Girl 1961....Light Fingers 1966....Gay Poss 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate 1969....Analie 1970....Leilani 1969....Toltrice 1971....Cap D'Antibes 1972....Denice's Joy 1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround 1975....My Blue Denim 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation 1980....Abit Leica 1981....Spirit Of Kingston 1981....Tristarc 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks 1983....Special 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm 1986....Courtza 1986....Joanne 1987....Let's Elope 1987....Mannerism 1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic 1990....Snap 1991....Circles Of Gold 1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Isca 1995....Sunline 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal 1997....Unwordly 1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange 2003....Hot Danish 2003....Miss Finland 2003....Tuesday Joy 2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar 2006....More Joyous 2007....Pinker Pinker 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Silent Achiever 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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Nice list.
I think Melbourne Cup winning filly Auraria deserves to be there though and I would have given some thought to True Course too, but these things go on forever. Now, put them in order of merit |
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djebel
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Analysis of Champion Racehorses by Peter Pring and The Thoroughbred Press published 1977, arrived this am and inspired this list, I had always wanted to do a list of mares. I wonder why Auraria was not included in this book. All her winning was done 1895, I wonder if that counted against her ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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Carioca
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Before we go Tontonan , there are 3 I'm glad to see on your list , 2 picked themselves being Wiggle and Wenona Girl, but the third Yahabeebe I was delighted to see , had a soft spot for her in my very young days , great list btw.
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djebel
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Both mares records would get them in in front of some of the later mares I have included.
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
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In chronological order
1867.....Florence 1869.....Lurline 1873.....Briseis 1870.....Hilda 1886.....Cynisca 1887.....Lady Zetland 1892.....Auraria 1894.....La Carabine 1896.....Wakeful 1898....Cruciform 1900....Gladsome 1900....Sweet Nell 1902....Lady Wallace 1906....Lady Medallist 1910....Warstep 1911....Carlita 1912....Desert Gold 1918....Furious 1922....Valicare 1929....Cuddle 1929....Silver Scorn 1933....Rivette ntb 1937....Tranquil Star 1945....Flight 1941....Rainbird 1942....Soneri 1946....Sweet Spray 1946....Chicquita 1847....True Course 1952....Evening Peal 1953....Yahabeebe 1955....Wiggle 1957....Wenona Girl 1961....Light Fingers 1966....Gay Poss 1967....Dual Choice 1969....Show Gate 1969....Analie 1970....Leilani 1969....Toltrice 1971....Cap D'Antibes 1972....Denice's Joy 1972....Maybe Mahal 1972....Toy Show 1973....Desirable 1973....Surround 1975....My Blue Denim 1978....November Rain 1978....Rose Of Kingston 1979....Emancipation 1980....Abit Leica 1981....Spirit Of Kingston 1981....Tristarc 1982....Heat Of The Moment 1983....Bounding Away 1983....Horlicks 1983....Special 1985....Research 1985....Riverina Charm 1986....Courtza 1986....Joanne 1987....Let's Elope 1987....Mannerism 1987....Triscay 1989....Burst 1989....Miltak 1989....Skating 1989....Slight Chance 1990....Angst 1990....Electronic 1990....Snap 1991....Circles Of Gold 1993....Dane Ripper 1994....Tycoon Lil 1995....Grand Archway 1995....Sunline 1996....Miss Pennymoney 1996....Spinning Hill 1997....Belle du Jeur 1997....Ethereal 1997....Unwordly 1998....Republic Lass 1999....Makybe Diva 1999....Private Steer 2000...Shamekha 2001...Alinghi 2001...Lotteria 2001...Miss Andretti 2002....Seachange 2003....Hot Danish 2003....Miss Finland 2003....Tuesday Joy 2005....Typhoon Tracy 2006....Black Caviar 2006....More Joyous 2007....Pinker Pinker 2008....Atlantic Jewel 2008....Silent Achiever 2011....Winx 2012....English 2012....Jameka I have eliminated Isca, her career was very brilliant but was just as brief as it was brilliant. Joanne if I am not mistaken is the only non group 1 winner on the list but she was one of the best sprinters I have seen. This leaves the list at 101 Do not hesitate to nominate fillies and mares I have missed or you believe deserves recognition. |
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Carioca
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Analie?
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djebel
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You do not believe she should be there ? |
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Carioca
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No , sorry I didn't see her on the list.
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JudgeHolden
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Unworldly? Surely a mare like Mosheen goes in ahead of her.
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Carioca
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Maybe a few borderline cases djebel, Begonia Belle, Citius, Indian Summer, Lady Sybil.
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Passing Through
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Empire Rose?
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djebel
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That was a poor miss by me considering she is my timeline. Mosheen could possibly be there in front of others but Unwordly did live up to her name and I could not drop her for Mosheen... |
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Tontonan
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One other who certainly should be there is Storm Queen.
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djebel
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45733 |
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Right or wrong there'll possibly be a cloud over Mosheen given her trainer's behavior during her time-line.
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djebel
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I wonder why they did not make the cut for THE BOOK ? I really must read the introduction. Perhaps he explains what criteria he used. |
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Tontonan
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Pring does outline his criteria in his introduction and it explains most of his omissions. Too detailed to reproduce here.
One more I would consider would be Waltzing Lily, an excellent short courser from the early 1930's - but don't ask me who to leave out if you want to keep the list to 100. An interesting sidelight is that off the 100 race mares listed 3 produced Melbourne Cup winners - Wakeful, Horlicks and Rose of Kingston (which is pretty good given that the mares on the list are not exclusively staying types).
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45733 |
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Just for info:
True Course - 9 Principal wins
Storm Queen - 10 Principal wins |
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djebel
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He started off with horses who won greater than 50% of their races, he also wanted them to have at least one major handicap carrying greater than WFA and worked from there. |
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Tontonan
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Alternatively Pring allowed for
-- horses that had run a national time record or a race record in a principal race, -- that the horse should have performed at the championship level for at least 3 campaigns, -- and they had 20 starts or more. -- and won a principal race in Melbourne or Sydney, Auckland or Wellington. He also admits he stretched his guidelines to include horses that didn't meet them but he regarded worthy. Even then he regrets not having been able to find space for NTB's like Aquanita and horses like Gothic. |
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Tontonan
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It might be easier on the scrolling wheels if we squeeze them into a table like this....
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Tontonan
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Or even better...
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djebel
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Outstanding as usual Tontonan.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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It would also be interesting to do the same with broodmares - the greatest 100 Australasian Broodmares throughout time. Interesting that some of the oldest mares on that list have female lines still producing stakes horses. My namesake isn't one of them as she didn't have any foals. From one extreme to the next.
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djebel
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Where would you start ? |
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furious
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The producers of more that three G1 winners and move up or down as the case may be. You could put in mares who only produced stakes winners etc. Or then you could add ones with only winning foals and most stakes winners etc. Dams of Champions usually wouldn't make the list as Champions seem to be one offs. Except of course with Octagonal's dam etc.
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Carioca
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Sunbride might be there furious?
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djebel
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I was going to look into it from a Matriarchs point of view or taproot much like I understand Bruce Lowe was about ?
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furious
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Well you could do either. Taproot mare line still producing today will find mares like Juliet, Eulogy, Manto etc and they would be on the other list also although Manto you'd have to take on race credit so maybe not. She was well before the real G1 races started.
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