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The Autumn Sun |
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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Like your mum and wife probably |
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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It's ok to be wrong Mr Commodore (doubt you could afford one, more a Kia type)
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ChrisB
Champion Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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Over and out from me.
Gay is excellent shame dealing with kisswits on this place. |
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correctweight
Champion Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2560 |
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Agreed Lonhro absolutely destroyed some good open class fields travelling up hard on the bridle. TAS is getting his necked scrubbed off against some horses that will never run a place again in stakes races.
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VOYAGER
Champion Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 18736 |
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I could go through a huge response but let me try and shorten it Judge. In the 2008 autumn carnival Sydney horses did not do that well. Now you can say that was because Apache Cat, Sarerra and Nom De Jeur among others were better than the NSW horses, but that means you are saying it was a poor year for the NSW horses and you are basically saying what I am saying, but for a different reason. Now on the Ryder specifically. The time for the race was average, Weekend Hussler carried 56.5 kilos. The race rates as an average edition and you can see the next season race just as a guide. In 2009 Vision And Power, won with 59 kilos, he ran 0.10 quicker and the three horses right behind him were Black Piranha second in a Doncaster and dual Stradbroke winner, King Mufahsa who had win 8 times at group 1 level and All Silent who had won Cantala and VRC Sprint Classic. The 2009 edition rates about three to four points superior than Weekend Husslers edition. He was a good horse, but I do not have him in the top ten of the 3yo's this century! |
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Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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You’re comparing times from a year apart. On a heavy track. That’s crazy. And KM won a lot of G1s but they were all in NZ. And WH vs V&P....please.
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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If you want him to throw Golden Slipper, Blue Diamond horses the answers probably no. He should throw more classic type runners however the odd top line sprinter could easily pop up. If your not happy winning a few listed - G3's over 1200 - 1400, the to go on and win G1's over 1600, 1800, & 2,000 then stay away. So it depends what you are breeding for. As for acceleration he Won a G@ over 1,400 first up and they ran 1.24.7 on a soft 7. He came from stone motherless last accelerate past the entire field. If that does not satisfy you go and buy a big V8 car and go hooning! |
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6665 |
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What would TAS stand for if he went to stud this spring?
Arrowfield couldn’t possibly justify more than the $27,500 that they charge for Dundeel. Dundeel has a both superior racing CV & a superior pedigree than TAS. Oh, sorry forgot that commercial breeding operations are more about marketing hype, so it’ll probably be a $60,000 service fee. |
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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The Redoubtes Choice x Galileo blood is desirable.
47k. |
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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And bargain down to 38k.
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Speediskey
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
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I would guess 60. And he has a much better CV than Dundeel and better breeding.
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Afros
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15476 |
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In my head I can already see the ad on the racing.com channel in a couple months, 'five time G1 winning son of Redoutes Choice including noted sire making races like the Randwick and Caulfield Guineas and the Golden Rose' with the last 400m of his Randwick Guineas win playing in the background, followed by a spiel from Waller about how he was always going to be the heir to Winxs throne if stud duties didn't call and he was the only horse in racing that could have pushed the great mare.
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 11386 |
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I’d say that’s what they need to achieve to justify the reported $40M purchase price. |
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6665 |
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Interesting comment speedy. The better breeding is subjective I guess. Personally I take a stallion by High Chap x Zabeel mare every time. I’ve never like Redoutes Choice, a lot of his progeny seem to only do ok at 2 & 3, then burnt out before they reach open age at 4yo’s. But not sure about the better CV. They’ve both won G1’s as spring 3yo’s, both won Randwick/Rosehill Guineas as autumn 3yo’s. But where Dundeel has the wood on TAS is that he was able to win a Derby at 2400m, plus 2 open age G1 races in the QE Stks & Underwood Stks. As an owner I’d much prefer that race record. |
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goldey
Champion Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Location: cairns Status: Offline Points: 5940 |
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For all those on here who constantly judge others for a lack of knowledge, ask yourself if are you judged when the plumber ,electrician ,mechanic sort out your problems for you due to your lack of knowledge, answer no, they wouldn't waste their time.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Absolutely they do. They just do it behind your back.
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Speediskey
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
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Dundeel is one of my favourite horses of all time, but you cannot with a straight face say his race record from an Australian breeding perspective is better. Things Australian Breeder’s look for is 2 year olds, which TAS won a Group 1 at 2. Next up they want them winning G1’s over as short a distance as possible, again TAS has one upped Dundeel. The most stallion making race Dundeel won in my opinion was close between the Randwick Guineas and the Underwood, neither of those compare to the Golden Rose, J J Atkins or Caulfield Guineas. |
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51993 |
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They prefer a public platform in order to 'prove' they know more than anyone else, it's an ego trip goldey
Edited by Gay3 - 24 Mar 2019 at 12:07pm |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Paul Hogan
Champion Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 742 |
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My quote is what I would pay for him, yeah he will probably stand for more so they could jam it. |
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goldey
Champion Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Location: cairns Status: Offline Points: 5940 |
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Ney, we just count the coin tj. |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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This boy has a different type of pedigree to Dundeel also. It is European as against Australian and New Zealand mix. Love Dundeels Eulogy blood but his wasn't as great a family recently to the one The Autumn Sun has.
No I can't say he'll get early two year olds. Is he built that way - no. His pedigree doesn't suggest it either. But what do I know when the horse I picked out to next seasons Derby's came out in the first two year old race of the season. Didn't do much but obviously ready to race. Pedigree still says 2400m. Doubt they'll ever try (talking about Fiery Red). But aren't we arguing that more needs to be done about our middle distance horses. Here is a horse with speed to win a two year old G1 and breed to be a 2400m horse. Now will he have the right mixes to make it with all the Redoute's blood already in the mares in the hunter. Who knows. Greats have failed before. But this boy has a better pedigree than say Tulloch or Gunsynd. He certainly has a better pedigree than Strawberry Road who had to go overseas to get his chance at stud. His sireline is alive and kicking. So don't knock him quite this early. I still hope they remember Redoute's race on into hie four year old career. Didn't do him any harm.
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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Bloodsuckers, sorry Meant Bloodstock Agents, followers of fashion, #otherpeoplesmoney......gotta luv those guys/gals......and the idiots that employ them........and that's being kind.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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We all follow fashion Bonjour. I work for the industry so I suppose you can lump me in! Different branch so I don't spend peoples money but there are lots out there who know what they are doing. You seem to be labelling them all here.
You can't blame TAS for not having a Derby on his profile. He should have been trained that way but after the gut buster yesterday who knows what will happen. We keep having wet tracks he certainly won't run Zabeel didn't have a Derby though. Like this colt he won a Guineas. Only one though - not three.
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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I work for a bloodstock agent so lump me in too I guess
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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Also I hope people don't think I'm on here to bignote myself. I genuinely love this industry and the horses. I love the make up and style of pedigree which can make a winner. Yes I know more about the stakes horses than any other type - because that is what I work on. Pedigrees and data of stakes winners. I'm here because of frustration. Everyone sees things differently. I know I do. I know I don't know everything. I have often thought something would be the best way to go with a stallion only to have proof that something else is more prevalent in his pedigree.
But female lines is where my true love lies. I don't think I've even rubbished someone else's idea other than to maybe show them another way also. If the breeding of racehorses was only done through the pedigree I'd know a fair amount. But it's not. So many here know more about the horse than I'll ever know.
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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Good on you for fighting your corner, the new age agent leaves a lot to be desired, IMO, fossil that I am.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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Oh I'm safe there - not a new age agent. Pretty old and not an agent.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21820 |
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So there was no Jimmy Barnes for you furious?. |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25165 |
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No. Can't stand loud music - gives me migraines. Had to leave before the last to get to work anyway.
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GAJ
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Location: Alstonville,NSW Status: Offline Points: 4410 |
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Furious so many things you've passed on in the forum have been valuable to many, I for one have learned so much over the years from you and many others like you on this forum.
appreciated...
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