The Autumn Sun

JudgeHolden wrote: I have to say- you do have the worst attempted putdowns I've heard. You really are an absolute scrubber.

Like your mum and wife probably

Over and out from me.

Gay is excellent shame dealing with kisswits on this place.

JudgeHolden wrote: VOYAGER wrote: I think the fact is he is a genuine group 1 horse. His own performances are worthy of acknowledgement and he will go to stud with a record of being a five time group 1 winner. However where we get a little exaggeration of his ability (which will no doubt be more amplified when he hits the stallion market) is that the horses he is beating are not of the highest quality. There is a thread about the best All Star Mile field that we could get, and someone had Weekend Hussler in the field. He won all his group 1's against a EI hit Victoria spring, and then his best form was at the sprint distances in the autumn. Octagonal was running group one performances, but he was also defeating horses who were providing group 1 performances like Saintly, Filante and Nothin Leica Dane as well as Mahogany in one of the best runs ever in a Cox Plate! I heard Waller say after his Randwick Guineas win that he has not matured and that he has more growing to do. Now I am not a breeding expert, but I would think that being a sire when you are not fully matured, would mean your first crop or two are not going to be your best, that is why sires like Dundeel, Savabeel and some others in recent times have taken a few crops to get their better progeny gaining their bigger, wins, so why does every stud think that stopping a sires racing career at the end of their 3yo season is the correct way to optimise their potential. He might be better, as Waller says, next season, but we will not find out because he will not be racing, and the 3yo's he is beating (except for the fillies) are, at the moment, not rating as well as previous crops. In summary, he is the best of a bad lot of males, and that was confirmed today when Graff, Encryption and Ringerdingding failed. Brutal ran well, but he to my eye is the one who still needs to develop. He could be the top four year old in the spring.            You keep repeating this and it's rubbish. He beat Casino Prince, Desert War and Racing to Win pointless in the Ryder:

I could go through a huge response but let me try and shorten it Judge.

In the 2008 autumn carnival Sydney horses did not do that well. Now you can say that was because Apache Cat, Sarerra and Nom De Jeur among others were better than the NSW horses, but that means you are saying it was a poor year for the NSW horses and you are basically saying what I am saying, but for a different reason.

Now on the Ryder specifically. The time for the race was average, Weekend Hussler carried 56.5 kilos. The race rates as an average edition and you can see the next season race just as a guide.

In 2009 Vision And Power, won with 59 kilos, he ran 0.10 quicker and the three horses right behind him were Black Piranha second in a Doncaster and dual Stradbroke winner, King Mufahsa who had win 8 times at group 1 level and All Silent who had won Cantala and VRC Sprint Classic.

The 2009 edition rates about three to four points superior than Weekend Husslers edition.

He was a good horse, but I do not have him in the top ten of the 3yo's this century!       

Glencoe wrote: I admire this horse's character but will he provide acceleration to a mating? Acceleration is a pre-requisite in this country

If you want him to throw Golden Slipper, Blue Diamond horses the answers probably no.

He should throw more classic type runners however the odd top line sprinter could easily pop up.

If your not happy winning a few listed - G3's over 1200
- 1400, the to go on and win G1's over 1600, 1800, & 2,000 then stay away.

So it depends what you are breeding for.

As for acceleration he Won a G@ over 1,400 first up and they ran 1.24.7 on a soft 7.
He came from stone motherless last accelerate past the entire field.

If that does not satisfy you go and buy a big V8 car and go hooning!

The Redoubtes Choice x Galileo blood is desirable.

47k.

I would guess 60. And he has a much better CV than Dundeel and better breeding.

Speediskey wrote: I would guess 60. And he has a much better CV than Dundeel and better breeding.

I’d say that’s what they need to achieve to justify the reported $40M purchase price.

For all those on here who constantly judge others for a lack of knowledge, ask yourself if are you judged when the plumber ,electrician ,mechanic sort out your problems for you due to your lack of knowledge,   answer no, they wouldn't waste their time.

Lord Hybrow wrote: Speediskey wrote: I would guess 60. And he has a much better CV than Dundeel and better breeding. Interesting comment speedy. The better breeding is subjective I guess. Personally I take a stallion by High Chap x Zabeel mare every time. I’ve never like Redoutes Choice, a lot of his progeny seem to only do ok at 2 & 3, then burnt out before they reach open age at 4yo’s. But not sure about the better CV. They’ve both won G1’s as spring 3yo’s, both won Randwick/Rosehill Guineas as autumn 3yo’s. But where Dundeel has the wood on TAS is that he was able to win a Derby at 2400m, plus 2 open age G1 races in the QE Stks & Underwood Stks. As an owner I’d much prefer that race record.

Dundeel is one of my favourite horses of all time, but you cannot with a straight face say his race record from an Australian breeding perspective is better.

Things Australian Breeder’s look for is 2 year olds, which TAS won a Group 1 at 2. Next up they want them winning G1’s over as short a distance as possible, again TAS has one upped Dundeel.

The most stallion making race Dundeel won in my opinion was close between the Randwick Guineas and the Underwood, neither of those compare to the Golden Rose, J J Atkins or Caulfield Guineas.

Speediskey wrote: I would guess 60. And he has a much better CV than Dundeel and better breeding.

My quote is what I would pay for him, yeah he will probably stand for more so they could jam it.

This boy has a different type of pedigree to Dundeel also.  It is European as against Australian and New Zealand mix.  Love Dundeels Eulogy blood but his wasn't as great a family recently to the one The Autumn Sun has.

We all follow fashion Bonjour.  I work for the industry so I suppose you can lump me in!  Different branch so I don't spend peoples money but there are lots out there who know what they are doing.  You seem to be labelling them all here.

Also I hope people don't think I'm on here to bignote myself.  I genuinely love this industry and the horses.  I love the make up and style of pedigree which can make a winner.  Yes I know more about the stakes horses than any other type - because that is what I work on.  Pedigrees and data of stakes winners.  I'm here because of frustration.  Everyone sees things differently.  I know I do.  I know I don't know everything.  I have often thought something would be the best way to go with a stallion only to have proof that something else is more prevalent in his pedigree.

Oh I'm safe there - not a new age agent.  Pretty old and not an agent.

No.  Can't stand loud music - gives me migraines.  Had to leave before the last to get to work anyway.