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2018 Melbourne Cup 3200m Group 1 |
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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Great thanks for that insight, 55kgs seems a nice weight for him.
Interesting that you peg Stradivarius with only 58kgs. Given his very similar profile to Double Trigger, I’d have thought he’d be deserving of a weight closer to 60kg |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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The Cup weights have changed a hell of a lot since Double Trigger and Swain headed the weights.
The handicapper thinks todays stayers are weaklings and incapable of carrying 58+. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
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As your cousin might have said to your niece, it's all relative.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Australian Bloodstock has turned to a proven formula in an attempt to win a second Melbourne Cup, with confirmation on Monday that the group was behind the recent purchase of super European stayer Torcedor.
Just like in 2014 when Protectionist won the Melbourne Cup in the Australian Bloodstock colours, Torcedor will be prepared for this spring's $7.3 million Cup by German master Andreas Wohler. Torcedor, a dual Group 3 winner who has come into his own chasing Stradivarius to fill Group 1 placings at his past two starts in Europe, currently carries a European rating of 119 and will be one of the highest-rated internationals to travel from Europe for the Melbourne Cup. He has been one of the big movers in Melbourne Cup markets in recent days and on Monday was listed as the equal-second favourite at $17 with BetEasy. Director Jamie Lovett says Australian Bloodstock and connections are thrilled to have purchased the horse from Te Akau Racing boss David Ellis and over the weekend Torcedor entered the German stables of Wohler. "Torcedor has got the profile of one of the better horses to ever come from Europe for the Melbourne Cup," Lovett told Racing.com on Monday. "He's the third-highest timeform-rated horse to come to Australia, but aside from that the way I rate it, he's right up there with the best … no doubt one of the top three two-mile horses in the world right now. "The horse has arrived at Andreas Wohler's stable in Germany this weekend, I spoke to him last night and Andreas will just spin his wheels now." Lovett added: "At this stage the plan will be to come out to Australia on the first shipment and in regards to a lead-up run, we don't know at this stage, it will depend how he responds to training and what Andreas thinks. "I do think that he is the sort of horse who profiles very, very well. "He's not a Group 1 winner, but if he had beaten Stradivarius in recent runs [in the Ascot Gold Cup or Goodwood Cup] then he'd get top weight in a Melbourne Cup for sure. "I think it might be a year with a lot of horses up the top end of the weight scale and therefore compressed weights, so it might be a year where you can be up weights and still make your presence felt." Torcedor was previously trained by Jessica Harrington in Ireland and Lovett explained the work and preparation put into the purchase was thorough, with some of those who enjoyed Melbourne Cup glory with Protectionist having reinvested to try and do it all again. "We're really bullish about him. He is effective on fast and slow tracks," he said. "It's so difficult to buy a horse like him from Europe for our Cup because connections are usually targeting an Arc (Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe) or the horse is weighted out of the Cup. "He is such a good staying horse but we spoke to a few of the riders of there and they said he isn't a dour two-miler, he runs times and runs good mid-race sectionals. "We discussed this horse at length before we purchased him. "This was the horse that we really wanted to buy, and to be honest I didn't think we'd be able to buy him off David Ellis. "It wasn't so much that it was an 'offer too good to refuse' [to Ellis], he is bigger on buying yearlings and you've got to remember that we are so fortunate with our prizemoney that in the end we didn't consider Torcedor to be crazy money for us." Lovett added: "We've got owners in this horse who have had success with Protectionist. "Protectionist [winning the Melbourne Cup] was a good year for us and Andreas. "It's a passion. If you've ever had a runner in the Melbourne Cup you then want one in the race every spring. "We'll leave our options open. He could be a horse that we return to Royal Ascot with next year given he has proven how good he is at that level. "But the type of horse he is, a weight-for-age race like The BMW would fit very well too. "We now want to get him to Werribee with plenty of time and hope for a good preparation." https://www.racing.com/news/2018-08-20/australian-bloodstock-targeting-melbourne-cup-with-torcedor |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Mug-Punter
Champion Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Location: Central Coast Status: Offline Points: 1007 |
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What weight would you expect for this fella Djebel??? I would presume near top weight with Best Solution... |
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The Mugg
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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It depends on whether Stradivarius is entered or not. If he is than Torcedor would probably get 1/2 a kilo less than Stradivarius so about 57.5.
I am expecting whoever the topweight is the top weight will get 58. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Best Solution might get 57.5 for the Caulfield Cup and 56.5 for the Melbourne Cup.
Prior to his group 1 win in Germany he was rated 3 lbs infrior to Stradivarius Stradivarius..............118 Torcedor....................118 Best Solution.............116 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Mug-Punter
Champion Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Location: Central Coast Status: Offline Points: 1007 |
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Cheers |
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The Mugg
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cotto1
Yearling Joined: 24 Jul 2016 Status: Offline Points: 119 |
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Hi guys:
I was reading that they think Torcedor.will be the best horse in this years Melbourne cup.in your guys opinions is that correct?. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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He'll probably be the best 2 miler, i doubt he will be the best horse. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45760 |
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Nice horse. May be too dour.
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Brudder_A
Champion Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Location: Uzhhorod Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
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Dual Melb Cup placegetter Max Dynamite finished 7th in the G2 Lonsdale Cup (2 m 56 y) at York today beaten once again by Stradivarius (4/11on fav).
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Brudder_A
Champion Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Location: Uzhhorod Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
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More to the point: The Melbourne Cup (G1), however, beckons for runner-up Count Octave.
Trainer Andrew Balding's wife, Anna Lisa, said: "You couldn't have asked
more from him. Hopefully, that means we might get his rating up and get
him to Australia. It was a hell of a run—and luckily we didn't ruin the
party."
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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Hopefully the unplaced runs of Max Dynamite & Red Verdon will convince their connections to abandon Melb Cup plans.
And you’d think that with his win that Stradivarius just earned himself a further weight increase for the Cup. He’s better off staying in in the northern hemisphere for races like the Irish St Leger 2800m or Long Distance Cup 3200m. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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He could touch 125 after that effort. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Muntahaa has never been mentioned as a cup horse. He just won the Ebor in very classy style.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Morston
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The sheikh’s racing manager has just said they will put him in if entries are still open.... |
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djebel
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reductio ad absurdum
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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The hoop kept Muntaaha out on the far rail on his own for a good couple of furlongs or more at the start before drifting across to slot in as they approached the first bend. It was curious to say the least and I was wondering why he would do that if not to avoid the hurly burly of the big field start - but it appeared to work perfectly for them.
I was much impressed with the win, but if he is to win the Melbourne Cup he might find the hurly burly a bit harder to avoid unless drawn wide ? There is a good half mile run to the first turn but Australian fields race notoriously tighter and there is a hairpin bend at the end of that running. Also he only had some old Oak trees to keep him company on the outside fence at York but at Flemington the outside rail puts you up close and personal to a drunken multitude which might not do Muntaa's nerves much good.
Still, I would like to see him make the trip. A Dansili 5YO dark grey gelding from a Linamix mare. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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I think it was actually done to avoid the worse going inside, But I could be wrong cause the bloody stablemate who I was on was in amongst it all.
Of course he was drawn out wide. I would not be surprised if we start seeing that regularly in Flemington 3200m contests. I mean why the rush to get across ?
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horlicks
Champion Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8408 |
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According to Gosden he said that when he was standing at the starting point a day or two earlier he realised there was a 4 furlong straight run after the start so he suggested to jockey to keep him wide out of the early bustle. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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So it could well be a mental thing with the horse, Al though I suspect it is just a matter of no points in getting involved early. He and Frankie did go wide early with Golden Horn for no reason other than it was no point getting in amongst the hustle and bustle early on in the Arc 2 or 3 years ago. |
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Miami
Champion Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Status: Offline Points: 358 |
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In the last 20 years, aside from Maybe Diva being handed a questionable 58kg, Protectionist won at 56.5kg off a suicidal tempo and Delta Blues at 56kg in an odd year where the Japanese horses ran 1-2. The race once again demonstrates that the majority of European horses are simply not good enough to justify their lofty rating. They need a lighter weight to win and everything to fall their way.
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djebel
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reductio ad absurdum
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Miami
Champion Joined: 12 Aug 2018 Status: Offline Points: 358 |
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Many have tried and failed. They are sure as hell trying their best.
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Tontonan
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Status: Offline Points: 3898 |
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Jim Cassidy sort of did similar in the 2012 Caulfield Cup. It didn't exactly work out for him as he went three wide around the first turn and had to push for the front, but he was up against it with only 400m get across.
I am loathe to pretend I know what I am talking about when it comes to riding racehorses but I think that if a horse is inclined to over race they are more inclined to do so with other horses and riders around them. Crowley seemed to let the horse fits its rhythm out wide before coming across. It was a pretty smooth move.
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Gee Gee
Champion Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Status: Offline Points: 8300 |
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Connections will nominate the Ebor winner for the MC
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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If anybody has online access to The Australian can you copy and paste the article :Race That Shames a Nation" please ?
As I have said before it is NOT our horses or breeders that are at fault it is our trainers. We see what they can do with already established and developed stayers, They fail dismally in developing them themselves. |
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