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Cracksman |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 8:34am |
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Sunline...simply supreme
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bradjm
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6175 |
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I'm more a legs man
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James0330
Champion Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2056 |
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Certainly gallops in the style of his old man. If he improves as a 4yo then the 2018 Arc may be one for the ages against Enable. Hopefully Winx can meet one of the two mid season.
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Formerly Kincsem
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2016 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Form on soft looks vastly superior to his dryer track form. If Winx does meet him, a wet track, home ground advantage and potential for travel wariness makes it a huge risk now.
Really have to question whether it would be too big an ask for a 7yo mare to beat both Enable and now Cracksman under such circumstances. I think She can and if she did, it would put her above Frankel for mine.
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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LOL. Dream on.
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Formerly Kincsem
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2016 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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I have her right along side Frankel over 2000m, certainly think she would be beating him off a strong tempo and with some give in the ground. Slow tempo on firmer ground and he would be too hard to run down. Reckon she'd have at least 3L on Cirrus Des Aigles in the wet and could certainly see her gap the likes of SNA and Farhh(?) by a similar margin as Frankel. 1600m and she would get held comfortably. All a matter of opinion. You from the UK or timeform by any chance?
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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Neither but I don't suffer from Xenophobic blindness either. Hartnell wouldn't have gotten anywhere near Frankel over any distance. Keep the laughs coming.
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bradjm
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6175 |
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He doesnt usually get anywhere near Winx either |
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correctweight
Champion Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2560 |
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Frankel is the most overrated horse ever. I mean they moved all the timeform ratings just so they could give him a higher rating.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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That is not quite correct. The official International ratings people moved their ratings around to fit in with some sort of narrative. Timeform have never changed theirs. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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The only people that under rate Frankel are rightfully considered mugs by every racing person on the planet with an opinion that matters. Many Oz forum dwellers do not fall into the "matters" category. So be it.
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correctweight
Champion Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2560 |
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Ok cool
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Formerly Kincsem
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2016 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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I would thought you pick up from the alias, but I’ve followed, studied and admired international racing since I was a child with an almost unhealthy interest. So xenophobic is so far off the mark it’s not funny. I consider Frankel the best in my lifetime so to compare Winx is not to denegrate Frankel. I have Winx about 3.5L ahead of SYT (WFA) who I would consider marginally the 2nd best 2000m horse we have produced in the last 30 years. To put my opinion of Winx into perspective I think she has a clear 4L over Sunline so certainly not downplaying Frankel. |
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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WOW. Do you take drugs often? You asked if I was a Pom or from Timeform, presumably as a means of demeaning my opinion on Frankel. At least have the courage to own your garbage. As for Frankel being the best of your lifetime do you even recall what you said on the other thread. Here it is again just to refresh your memory. Good grief!
Cracksman, son of Frankel just put down a performance IMO equal to anything Frankel did over 2000m Do not make offensive character attacks on members, thanks.
Edited by Gay3 - 27 Oct 2017 at 10:32am |
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correctweight
Champion Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2560 |
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Formerly Kincsem
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2016 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Just take breath mate, no need for the personal digs. Timeform have underrated Winx by about 5lbs compared to International ratings, nothing to do with Frankel. Also I rate Frankel the best I've seen for his exploits over the mile, his not nearly as bomb-proof over 2000m, hence why I think Winx at her peak distance would hold all the tactical aces over that trip and be very close depending on race circumstance. I've stated on a number of occasions he's the best I've seen in general terms, just so happens that Winx at WFA would be almost as good as any horse I've seen over 2000m. |
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correctweight
Champion Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2560 |
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Agreed. Your an international racing fan and watch most racing jurisdictions and are resoected by the forum. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Cracksman was wonderful again last night but it would take some serious artistic license to get his rating for last night up with Winx and Gun Runner.
I have no doubt he is right up there with them but the runner up is pretty average, or at least he was, he has clearly improved 20 lengths on his previous best. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Atreus
Champion Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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Let's be honest. Cracksman is better than Winx and it is impossible to say Winx is the world's best while Cracksman is around
Highland Reel is a very consistent horse. Winx beat Highland Reel by 5.6L in the Cox Plate. A few weeks later Highland Reel won the HK Vase by 1.5L. Cracksman beat Highland Reed by 7.3L at Ascot in the Champion Stakes end of last year. A few weeks later Highland Reel won the HK Vase by 1.8L So I don't think Highland Reel underperformed when he raced against Cracksman going by his HK Vase performance. The fact is that Cracksman's best is about 1.5L superior to Winx's best Both are great horses but Cracksman is the best |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21830 |
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Yes he was impressive but really only for a furlong and a half, the track looked in good nick and no horse looked uncomfortable , they should be booked for loitering, they have ran the 2000 in 2-9-45sec, with a pacemaker there it's farcical imo.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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2100m.
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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You may well be right but his effort on Sunday night was not enough to take him to the top of the rankings at this point in time. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21830 |
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And I will add after reading Atreus's post if he's better than Winx the I will give up ever having a bet again. |
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Atreus
Champion Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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Carioca
Time for you to give up betting Cracksman's peak run is too powerful even for Winx A real shame that Waller did not take Winx to the UK so the world could see Cracksman vs Winx |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21830 |
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Just read it , oops big boo boo. |
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Morston
Champion Joined: 01 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 704 |
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....and we do not know how either of them would measure up against Enable....although Cracksman and Enable may well meet this year. .......and Gosden has a few more waiting in the wings |
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AndiCap
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Status: Offline Points: 6032 |
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Attempting to compare those from different Hemispheres when they have not met in both areas is pure folly.
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Morston
Champion Joined: 01 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 704 |
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45811 |
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Thank Heavens for some clear realism from Andi.
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