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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 4:00pm |
How long is this dump going to continue before we see a rebound, what's the low point?
There's going to be resistance at 3,300 / 3,000 / 2,500.
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Passing Through
Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Location: At home Status: Offline Points: 79532 |
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It isn't too late to cash them in for OxBucks
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Touched below 3,000 now back up to over 3,600.
The alt currency that I'm highest on is monero.
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Passing Through
Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Location: At home Status: Offline Points: 79532 |
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Bitcoin value plummets after China orders trading in currency to cease |
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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I am holding on to my bitcoin, I bought 100,000 at 8 cents years ago so not risking much money
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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That what this thread was discussing Passing Though, however there was a pump after bitcoin breached 3,000 on the way down and it's now at 3,700.
So the question is how sustained is this rally going to be and what is the bottom.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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Please
note: I'm not selling anything or getting any form of payment for
sharing this other than the satisfaction of making a positive difference
to your lives.....
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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JPM) strategist Marko Kolanovic has some strong words for the cryptocurrency markets that are dominating the conversation right now, using the two words no one in the investing world ever wants to see: pyramid scheme." data-reactid="11">JPMorgan (JPM)
strategist Marko Kolanovic has some strong words for the cryptocurrency
markets that are dominating the conversation right now, using the two
words no one in the investing world ever wants to see: pyramid scheme.
“Cryptocurrencies cannot be reliably valued and they have significant ‘tail risk’ that could come in the form of a regulatory ban,” said Kolanovic in a note published Wednesday. “Moreover, the whole cryptocurrency market exhibits some parallels to fraudulent pyramid schemes.” Most simply, a pyramid scheme is one in which members of a sales network are incentivized financially to grow the network instead of making sales. Pyramid schemes are illegal. famously made a three-hour presentation arguing that multi-level marketing firm Herbalife (HLF) was a pyramid scheme and would go to $0; shares of Herbalife were trading near $70 on Wednesday." data-reactid="34">Pyramid schemes are often associated with door-to-door sales networks. In 2012, Bill Ackman famously made a three-hour presentation arguing that multi-level marketing firm Herbalife (HLF) was a pyramid scheme and would go to $0; shares of Herbalife were trading near $70 on Wednesday.In essence, Kolanovic is saying that the scarcity of bitcoin some evangelists cite as bolstering the cryptocurrency’s value actually illuminates the pyramid-like nature of the scheme. Because if it is unprofitable to mine new bitcoin, then it follows that new or prospective bitcoin buyers might ask whether they are really getting something of value in buying existing bitcoin or simply enriching the early owners who own a disproportionate amount of the asset. Additionally, the proliferation of cryptocurrencies we’ve seen of late — Kolanovic estimates the market is now about $150 billion in size — indicates that players in the space may merely be extracting value from new members (read: crypto investors) and not actually creating cryptocurrencies which are worth anything. Kolanovic writes that, in the case of bitcoin, “it is believed that an unknown person (or persons) known as ‘Satoshi Nakamoto’, before disappearing, mined the first 1-2 million coins, or ~10% of the coins that will ever exist ($4-8 billion current value). While initial mining requires a negligible effort, the benefits for subsequent participants start diminishing. Mining becomes progressively more difficult, and eventually unprofitable, marking the likely end of a scheme.” Like a pyramid scheme, then, the values accrue up the chain while the losses flow down. Kolanovic says a possible workaround would be to just create a new coin, adding that, “This can work as long as there are enough willing and uninformed buyers.” “Worse than tulip bulbs”said the bitcoin craze we’ve seen this year is “worse than tulip bulbs,” a reference to the tulip mania of the 1600s. Dimon added that, “if [JPMorgan] had a trader who traded bitcoin I’d fire them in a second. For two reasons: It’s against our rules, and they’re stupid. Both are dangerous.”" data-reactid="40">On Tuesday, Kolanovic’s boss Jamie Dimon — CEO of the Wall Street bank — said the bitcoin craze we’ve seen this year is “worse than tulip bulbs,” a reference to the tulip mania of the 1600s. Dimon added that, “if [JPMorgan] had a trader who traded bitcoin I’d fire them in a second. For two reasons: It’s against our rules, and they’re stupid. Both are dangerous.”Critics of Dimon’s comments will note that Dimon both “doesn’t get” bitcoin and that, if bitcoin and related technologies are going to undermine the primacy of the modern banking system, he would of course dismiss it." data-reactid="41">Critics of Dimon’s comments will note that Dimon both “doesn’t get” bitcoin and that, if bitcoin and related technologies are going to undermine the primacy of the modern banking system, he would of course dismiss it.Bank of America Merrill Lynch’s latest fund manager survey indicated that going long bitcoin is seen as the market’s most crowded trade right now." data-reactid="42">Elsewhere on Tuesday, Bank of America Merrill Lynch’s latest fund manager survey indicated that going long bitcoin is seen as the market’s most crowded trade right now.also said Tuesday that after a presentation on value investing delivered to a room of investment industry pros, the first question was about bitcoin." data-reactid="43">Investment manager Patrick O’Shaughnessy also said Tuesday that after a presentation on value investing delivered to a room of investment industry pros, the first question was about bitcoin. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Dimon also made that call at 400 so he's a fool.
I don't believe him either, J P Morgan has invested in it's own blockchain technology so that speaks for itself.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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J P Morgan were big purchases of bitcoin.
Dimon should be investigated.
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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Seems as though bitcoin depends on its ability to facilitate anonymous transactions of illegal commodities etc, for its value.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Monero is preferable for such purposes, that's why I'm high on it.
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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Give us your precis of the situation, Sneck, and why it is a sound store of wealth, if indeed it is.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Here's a real basic guide to crypto |
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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What stops imitators duplicating it exactly ?
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Passing Through
Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Location: At home Status: Offline Points: 79532 |
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They have a complex system of recoeding of transactions in a multitude of places that has gotten around the possibility of fraud. A fixed number of 'coins' is also released
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Passing Through
Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Location: At home Status: Offline Points: 79532 |
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There is a pretty good explanation of how the system works and it's history on this podcast
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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What stops an alternative crypto from taking over from bitcoin at some point? Market share and branding, but sure it's possible. Or security? Why are they important? The importance of something is derived from how valuable it is. Sometimes this manifests purely from a shared belief such as in the case of gold, but most of the time it’s because something is useful. I’m sure you’ve heard Bitcoin being compared to “Digital Gold” and while the analogy serves as an entry point it is far far more useful than gold. While many cryptos try and differentiate themselves to address specific problems, most of them share a common set of inherent values: security, transparency (or lack thereof), immutability, global accessibility, speed and price. This is a shared characteristic of almost all cryptos with some caveats.
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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With heavy-hitter govts like China and India against these currencies, I'd suggest it is conceivable that in the future users may have to quit crypto-currencies of find themselves at the Crossbar Motel.
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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That is the weakness, as I see it. Gubmints and their powers, and in democracies, with the approval of populations that can be persuaded they are being farked around by crypto-currencies. Of course those invested in the idea, won't hear of that, but greed driven schemes have that effect on people. Think pyramid schemes. They were legal once.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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But cypto is going nowhere, the question is if they'll be a viable alternative to fiat or a niche market mostly online.
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Passing Through
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The Indian and Russian govts are both exploring using crypto currencies as an alternative. I am sure everyone on the wrong side of sanctions and trade restrictions would be as well, also the obvious people within the system trying to avoid transactional scrutiny. Great scope for them especially if they end up interchangeable
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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The ability to really "clean up" with some incipient technology or idea, never extends beyond the few that get in on the ground floor. As a billionaire Brit once observed, "if you can see a band wagon, it is already too late". Everyone that misses the early rush, misses the jackpot.
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31448 |
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The purpose of Bitcoin is to evade or bypass government control so I am not surprised the price has rebounded quickly.
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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1 Bitcoin equals 12808.30 Australian Dollar
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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Who gets the blame when this Ponzi/money laundering scheme goes off a cliff?
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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I don't think it will go over the cliff, there is a limited amount of bitcoins , 21 million, 17 million are in circulation now.
Despite all the warnings of a ponzi scheme i think cryptocurrency is the way of the future, even financial institutions are looking to be involved I hate it for a number of reasons, I missed the boat, don't understand it, and am wondering if traditional currencies will collapse |
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ThreeBears
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2017 Status: Offline Points: 2911 |
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I'm more of a Newton kind of guy and this has gone UP too far for my liking. Its association with money laundering must be the greatest concern for traditional financial bodies. The US regulators must be looking at who they can "pinch" a la HSBC etc.
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Passing Through
Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Location: At home Status: Offline Points: 79532 |
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The problem isn't that Bitcoin is restricted to 21 million units, it is that there are at least 1037 different listed cryptocurrencies Bit like the alphabet soup of boxing Which one(or 100) ends up being the one you want to be left holding
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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"I hate it for a number of reasons ..., don't understand it"
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