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Roman Son |
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robbo
Champion Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1573 |
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Is Roman Son any chance of turning up in the Doomben Cup on Saturday? With Gailo Chop out it looks to be very thin on paper (Ambitious is the favourite) and he would go in with great form credentials, albeit up in class. The BM 85 at Rosehill looks very winnable as well.
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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Totally agree but i think it's slim to none.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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robbo
Champion Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1573 |
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Here's the answer - courtesy of punters.com.au
Freedman sticks to original plan with promising stayer Roman Son By Isaac Ling 28 minutes ago Roman Son has won his past two startsImage: Bradley Photos Richard Freedman believes Roman Son will eventually become a Group One horse but the Rosehill-based trainer is unlikely to rush the gelding into the top grade for Saturday's Doomben Cup (2000m). Freedman has weighed up taking the promising stayer north for the Brisbane feature, which has been weakened by the withdrawal of Gailo Chop due to injury, but instead is set to keep him at home for a Benchmark 85 Handicap (2000m) at Rosehill. “I’ve considered it but I think we should stick with our original plan, which is to go around on Saturday in the Benchmark 85," Freedman told Punters.com.au. “I can’t secure a jockey that suits me for the Doomben Cup. Most of the riders that my owners will accept are already booked for other horses or not going. [They're] Either staying in Sydney or going to Adelaide. “I’m a little bit hamstrung there and I just tend to think he’s got next year to run in a race like that. This year he’s probably not experienced enough to beat those weight-for-age horses. If it was a handicap I’d be going.” “I think he’s eventually going to make that level. He’s got a few issues that need to be managed, soundness-wise and things like that. So that’s why I’m hesitant to push him too fast too quick." Blake Shinn has been booked to ride the lightly-raced gelding at Rosehill, where he will chase a third straight win. While the Doomben Cup appears off the agenda, a trip to the winter carnival is still on the cards, with June's Group Two Brisbane Cup (2200m) a likely assignment if all goes to plan on Saturday. "If he runs well, we’ll go to the Brisbane Cup. If he doesn’t run well then we’ll probably go to the paddock. But I think he probably will run well," Freedman said. The son of Roman Emperor has won five of his 12 starts to date and was most recently seen winning last month's Provinical Stayer's Handicap (2100m) by 2.22L at Hawkesbury. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Smart programming imo. WFA G1 would be a bridge too far at this stage.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21824 |
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Yes I agree 3bm, the handicap conditions of the Brisbane cup would be a far better option for this horse horse, if he were to go to the WFA race and win he would pay the penalty for the rest of his career, I think the trainer is awake to this as well, there is plenty of time for these plans in the future re WFA if the horse shows such ability. |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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$2.10 = gift .
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Sunline...simply supreme
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MJB
Champion Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1601 |
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I love how careful and precise Freedman is with the placement of this horse. That's the most important aspect of being a good trainer. Placing horses in races they can win. Alot of trainers would go straight into the deep end.
Looks a good thing again. Anchor for the weekend multi's. |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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I agree, MJB. The owner experience is far better if you can get the horse winning multiple races in a prep, and the horse just grows in confidence.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Unlike Ollerton and Royal Tudor for example - a horse with far more ability than the trainer extracts. Can only think the owners are good friends of his.
Worth watching this horse at his next start over say 1400m. If you check his form you'll see why.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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You'll have to point out the error please. He has had 38 starts and as far as I can tell he ran through the grades and is now running in Country Cups. The Japanese, Europeans and North Americans generally quickly establish the class of their inmate, I do not think it should take much more than a half dozen starts to realise they have a blacktype horse in their yard. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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The clue was in my, and MJB's posts djebel. And his form.
Ollerton's not on his pat of course. Robbie and So Si Bon was arguably worse. There are many more.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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I actually think you are both wrongish.
There was very little wrong or poor about So Si Bons first real campaign. Very few genuine Victoria Derby horses race through their grades so to speak, they are quickly from maiden company to black type. Ace High was running in listed and group company before he had won his maiden, Prized Icon was the same, He broke his maiden at listed level. So Si Bon may have failed to win but he was showing outstanding form. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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MJB was merely generalising, he said nothing about RT or SSB djebel. Imo SSB's placement under Laing was an exemplar of what he said so blame me . Perhaps Robbie was training him for nix.
Trainers can obviously be excused in the early days as they work out their charges but beyond that crossing fingers and toes, shutting eyes and hoping for the best is no substitute for intelligent placement. Sunline's comment picks up most of the reasons. Placement is NOT just about class. It's also about distances. In te end poor SSB didn't know what he was supposed to be. Little wonder he got angry
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MJB
Champion Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1601 |
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I was referring to winnable races. Everyone wants to win right? Too many times trainers place horses in races they won't be competitive in. It's a waste of a run.
Royal Tudor is a good shout. Another from a few years ago - Mister Milton. Trained by Norman Waymouth. Only had 2 wins from 49 starts but if you go through it's form it spent most of it's career in black type races. Ran 3rd to Mosheen in an Australian Guineas. Probably deserved 2nd in light of recent events? You should be winning early days and accumulating prize money. Then when your rating is too high then go onto the good races. As Sunline said, builds confidence. The horse is used to winning. Old boy Norm went straight into the deep end and as a result his horse had a terrible strike rate. His little horse was quite talented but needed to be down a grade. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Royal Tudor has very good ability. He may have issues - only excuse I can think of - but his "roi" hasn't been helped by placement, or a couple of rides for that matter. He's not a miler, nor is he up to Group level without the confidence of leading his species home on a regular basis. His Tamworth Cup placement was a good example. 60kgs against a very solid field of in form horses. Then a mile on the huge Scone track 3-0-0-0. But.....be aware of what he did after the 2017 Scone Cup flop.
To make this post relevant, Roman Son's bro goes around at Newcastle on Sat and looks the goods.
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robbo
Champion Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1573 |
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To make this post relevant, Roman Son's bro goes around at Newcastle on Sat and looks the goods. [/QUOTE] Still in the Queensland Derby and the form through Nothing Too Hard looks OK given how well he raced at Doomben last week. As does the Play It For Me form. Agree should be winning Saturday. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Just noticed that Porky Pies (finished 3rd behind NTH and Britannicus) won today at Kembla, further franking the form.
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MJB
Champion Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1601 |
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A true staying event found him out today.
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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TOM'S SPECIAL ... FLOP
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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Yeah it's amazing how pressure sorts them out. No excuses.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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His brother bolted in at Newcastle though. Never in doubt.
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correctweight
Champion Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2560 |
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Big fan of this horse but wasn't on him today like last time at Hawkesbury.
The 60.5kg and strong pace undid him today and was a bit exposed with the ride. Can still win a good race with a good smother and moderate pace where the turn of foot can win you the race. |
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Overseer
Champion Joined: 26 Jul 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2225 |
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Full sister won on debut at Hawkesbury today - Etheridge. Came from last as a 2yo in an open F&M Maiden so appears to have inherited some family ability.
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Watch the commission go on
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robbo
Champion Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1573 |
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A lot to like about Roman Son’s first up effort yesterday when hitting the line - he seemed to have that acceleration which was the trademark of last prep and now needs a suitable trip. Richard Freedman suggested pre-race that he was in good form. It’s a strange time
If the year for him - I’d love to see him second up in a Villiers with no weight and then the Gosford Cup? Not sure what else would be a target. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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The Summer Cup ?
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reductio ad absurdum
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robbo
Champion Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1573 |
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I thought it was 2400m so third up would have been too soon. But I just checked and it is 2000, so yes, that looks ideal. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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3rd up at 2400m would be perfect. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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In actuality I would say 2400m 2nd up is what he is looking for.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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Hopefully we do get to see him at 2400m this campaign.
Maybe Tattersalls Club Cup 2400m (Listed) at Kensington on NYD, or the Australia Day Cup 2400m (Listed) at Warwick Farm. |
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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I was going to wait until he was 3rd up at 1800-2000m but just can’t let him go around today without at least having a little something on him today.
Anyone else on board with him today? |
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