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Cable Bay |
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djebel
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Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 8:00pm |
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Black Caviar breeder confident of pulling off Cable Bay challengeMartin Stevens speaks to Rick Jamieson about his ambitious planBy Martin Stevens When it was announced that Cable Bay, coming to the end of covering his second book of mares at Highclere Stud, would shuttle to Australia from this year it might have been assumed that the identity of his sire, Invincible Spirit, was the overriding reason he was in demand down under. Another son, I Am Invincible, ranks as one of the most exciting young stallions there, after all. Or perhaps it was the fact his granddam, Haydock Sprint Cup heroine Cherokee Rose, was a half-sister to Volksraad, a multiple champion sire in New Zealand; or his good looks, which have enticed breeders to send him 152 mares in his first British book and around 130 in his second; or even his admirable race record, which included a runner-up effort in the Dewhurst Stakes at two and a victory in the Challenge Stakes on his final start at four. All of those factors may have contributed to the cause of Cable Bay's working holiday at Woodside Park Stud in Victoria, but the main motivation for Rick Jamieson orchestrating the deal to secure the stallion's southern hemisphere breeding rights was in fact deeply hidden elements of his pedigree that the breeder of unbeaten sprint queen Black Caviar has pinpointed. For Jamieson is an avid analyst of thoroughbred families and, by choosing matings seemingly - the word seemingly is used because the exact details of his method are not disclosed - based on determining influential ancestors and matching them between the sire and dam, he managed to breed five Group 1 winners from only around 54 foals to have raced in the space of six years. And what makes the achievement all the more impressive is that the sires he has chosen are not necessarily the most fashionable or expensive. Black Caviar's sire Bel Esprit is a solid source of talent but has never reached the heights of a Redoute's Choice or Encosta De Lago, while this season's Caulfield Cup heroine Jameka, one of the latest star graduates of Jamieson's Gilgai Farm, was bred from the unpretentious Myboycharlie. “Look, I know there's a lot of luck involved, I'm not stupid, but those winners were from modestly bred mares and I was not afraid to go to less commercial stallions as long as they fitted my matrix,” Jamieson said at last week's Magic Millions National Broodmare Sale on the Gold Coast, where he and his agents were busy sourcing mares for Cable Bay. “Breeding and planning matings is my hobby, and it's worked out extraordinarily well.” Now Jamieson has set himself the reverse challenge of finding his own stallion and testing whether an impressive strike-rate of winners to runners can be achieved if correctly matched mares are sent to him. “I wondered for some time whether the same theories I used for mating my mares could apply to a sire,” he said. “My friend Peter Anastasiou [the breeder of Cloth Of Stars] pushed me into turning it into reality. He looked for a stallion, starting in Australia then stretching out and looking in the UK. “Peter suggested some stallions to see if they had what I looked for and one of them was Cable Bay. The more I peeled back the pedigree, the more comfort I took that we could match mares to this horse. “So we got him out here and the mission is to turn him into a stallion with double-digit stakes winners to runners. A good horse in Australia might get six to seven per cent; to get over ten per cent is exceptional, then you've got a serious horse. “It's a bit of a personal challenge, to correctly mate mares to him. I'm pretty confident I'll do it.” The team that joined Jamieson to import Cable Bay to Australia includes Woodside Park Stud, Grand Lodge and B2B Bloodstock. The partners will be sending around 50 mares who correctly match with the sire, and 12 lots were purchased at Magic Millions by Dermot Farrington and Damon Gabbedy's Belmont Bloodstock for that purpose. They included Miss Cover Girl, a Group 1-winning daughter of Monashee Mountain, for A$500,000 (£296,000/€337,000). Jamieson did not reveal what criteria those mares filled, saying only his method was “too difficult to explain” but that he looks for “a lot of things – synergies and multiples”. He dropped one clue by adding that Dancing Brave is “dynamite” in a pedigree due to the influence of that brilliant horse's sire Lyphard and damsire Drone. Dancing Brave was the sire of Cherokee Rose who, remember, is the maternal granddam of Cable Bay. So there you have it: the key selling point for Jamieson in the acquisition of southern-hemisphere breeding rights in Cable Bay was not necessarily his sire-line, his racing performance or quality of his first foals, as strong as any of those claims may be. Rather, it appears it might have been ancestors in his third and fourth generations and deeper pedigree analysis that clinched the deal. Cynics would do well to remember the breeder of Black Caviar's phenomenal strike-rate of nine per cent Group 1 winners to runners. He might just know what he's talking about. Group 1 winners bred by Rick Jamieson Black Caviar All Too Hard Jameka The Quarterback Lucky Bubbles |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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Duplication of Sharpen Up here, thru' son & daughter with a 3rd strain of his dam Mixed Marriage thru' daughter Tamerett. Sireline of both is Danzig.
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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djebel
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reductio ad absurdum
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tillyras
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Scarlet Billows sold yesterday and will be going to this stallion
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djebel
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
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reductio ad absurdum
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Ticino
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Hello,
the yet unnamed 'Cable Bay' offspring had an interesting connection. Mauritania, the third dam, her Sire is 'The Brianstan', it sounds a bit far fetch, but he traces via 'Fair Emigrant' (reimported to Europe) to the wellknown Australian Taprootmare Juliet. regards, Ticino
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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From perusing the stud book Cable Bay now has near 30 foals on the ground in Oz
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Fat Finger next post
The 4 photos on Breednet look quite good & there are reports of 2 exceptional types on Merrivale farm at Gooram Can anyone contribute more information
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gorrod
Weanling Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Sending two to him this year Flowing Habit and Qalanjo
My reasoning for Flowing Habit Signs of Blessing(Group 1 winner) in her direct family Moonlight Cloud (Group 1 winner) Rainbow Quest and Nijinsky in the female family as does Flowing Habit Yosei (Group1 winner) Sunday Silence and Rainbow Quest in female family as does Flowing Habit. All are by Invincible Spirit Qalanjo by Xaar meets a recommended breeding template for Cable Bay. Can anyone find merit in these selections |
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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I find it fascinating that all the people who have opinions on this site don't seem to have an opinion on Cable Bay. WHY???
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45811 |
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Rick sorted all applications and for the most part only accepted mares that he considered matched well with the sire. Didn't think ours matched and that was confirmed following a chat with him. Mind you he declined to explain his actual reasoning
So only owners who passed his rule of thumb would have foals on the ground, which may have precluded most or all on here. |
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 17 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7497 |
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Are they still doing that this year? Picking the mares? What sort of mare did you nominate? |
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to the victor
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Second Chance
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Mare was a city wining stakes-producer. However I didn't think she matched welland basically only put her up to see if Rick was fair dinkum about knocking back mares he didn't think were suitable for Cable Bay.
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linghi11
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Thanks SC!
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to the victor
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goldey
Champion Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Location: cairns Status: Offline Points: 5942 |
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By the looks of the mares he had accepted he has certainly done some home work.
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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So that still leaves 2 lines of questioning:
1) What lines/nicks is Rick J looking for and of more interest 2) What lines/nicks do our forumites think will work e.g. am I right in thinking that mares by Mr P sire sons have worked in Europe
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45811 |
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Just looking at a couple of males.
Invincible Spirit: clearly Mr P, also Sir Gaylord, Lalun, Sadlers, Nijinsky. Two Gp 1 winning sons, from different female families, have siblings Kris and Diesis in the 3rd remove. I Am Invincible: notably Zabeel/Sir T, clearly Danehill (surprise, surprise), Mr p again, Marscay, Century, Nureyev. Don't know if that helps all that much.
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goldey
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Yeah second chance is right, and he also is duplicating 7 family via Danzig,Bletchingly and Rockefella via Danehill Dancer in Sharpen Up who also brings in the female line of Mixed Marriage.
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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The interesting challenge with this stallion is 3fold
* what do we think Rick J is looking for * what do we think might work LOTS of opinions would make for a good discussion * and then to look back in 2-3 years to see if anything worked as an aside it will be interesting to see how his yearlings are received at the UK sales over the next few weeks
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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My contribution is this:
He has a real chance of succeeding because his pedigree is "balanced', with lots of siblings out to 8 generations so he has a wide range of conquests
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Second Chance
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[QUOTE=Glencoe]
The interesting challenge with this stallion is 3fold
* what do we think Rick J is looking for * what do we think might work LOTS of opinions would make for a good discussion * and then to look back in 2-3 years to see if anything worked as an aside it will be interesting to see how his yearlings are received at the UK sales over the next few weeks /QUOTE] Agree Cable Bay has a nicely balanced pedigree. I reckon Rick's looking to duplicate certain as yet undefined influences. If he sticks to what's worked for Invincible Spirit then Sharpen Up, Sir Gaylord, Sadler's/Fairy King (read Encosta in particular) come into play. If it's nicks then perhaps Mr P and Lalun. If he's taking I Am Invincible into account then he'd surely be looking for the Sir Tristram/Zabeel nick, daughters of Danehill Dancer, Encosta again, and daughters or grand-daughters of Hussonet. Mind you that might be well off the mark, however fwiw that's the way I'd tend to be thinking. 9read Encosta in particular)
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Gay3
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I've just watched the racing.com promo on him & to say I'm majorly impressed is an understatement
He's a most magnificent, well balanced, refined stallion with a head to die for & if the foal examples shown, are anything to go by, whatever Rick's doing is working I can only find the video on their FB page. https://www.facebook.com/racingdotcom/videos/2100268566969714/ copy/paste. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Carioca
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Had the mares and foals on Bred to Win the other night, they look strong and healthy with some of them having unusual markings around the muzzle area, a good watch fwiw.
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kavg
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He is related to Volksraad via sire line and tail female line. Volksraad didn't set the world on fire but did OK and seems to be doing Ok as a broodmare sire.
With the relation to Volksraad I wonder what lessons could be learned to improve the stats of Cable Bay.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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gorrod
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2 winners and a 2nd placegetter from first three to race uk and europe
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Vivarchi
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Cable Bay is off to a flyer in Europe. He had his first stakeswinner overnight in England with the filly Liberty Beach staying unbeaten and winning comfortably.
Overall he has now had 7 or 8 2yo winners which is most from any other first season sire. An interesting coincidence is that all winners so far are fillies. Being by Invincible Spirit augers well for him to go well down here as well.
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Sorry to possibly disappoint you but Racing Post lists the race as a C2 Conditions Stakes, therefore probably not a Listed. The Filly was a 16GBP buyback by her breeder at Tatts
Having sent a mare to him I have watched his progress closely. Lots of runners, 7 or 8 winners Yes, but fairly low class events. When the carnivals start June thru to Oct we'll get more of an idea. Winners are one thing. Class is another. Time will tell
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45811 |
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Spoke to Rick Jamieson a while back, after he'd said he'd only accept mares that "suited his stallion" during its first season. Almost needless to say Rick wouldn't disclose the criteria.
Had a well bred and performed mare that I thought was unsuited to Cable Bay, asked for his opinion, and to his credit he agreed. Looking at mares he's certainly accepted more than a couple who on face value had little going for them, however maybe they ticked one or more of his boxes. Suspect a Green Desert cross (hopefully not too prominent in the mare) thus Danzig, and particularly Zabeel feature among his desired influences, though I could well be wrong. All of which doesn't really suggest whether this fellow will succeed or otherwise down-under.
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