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Cable Bay |
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ribot90
Weanling Joined: 25 Dec 2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Posted: 01 May 2023 at 9:13pm |
thanks Gay3 I think I could write a book on some of the trainers haha - her mum was trained by Charlie Fellowes and he was good so will talk to him.. i've keep you posted
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all horses can win
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ribot90
Weanling Joined: 25 Dec 2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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hello Oldflight I think you are right about marketing - I think he has done ok down in Australia and typical as they sell him to stand in India he gets group 1 winner. The number of horses this happens to is alot - from Hornbeam to Duke of Marmalade. Just looking around at trainers for her - her mum was trained by Charlie Fellowes so will have a chat with him, the grand dam I who is by Dansili I had with Henry Cecil and I still have the great grand dam by Shareef Dancer out of Troy mare 28 and still the boss Ribot90 aka Paul
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all horses can win
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oldflight
Champion Joined: 03 Jan 2010 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 621 |
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Hi All,
Just to be clear I was not knocking the Horse's ability to generate winners just that the way the horse was marketed in Australia narrowed his chances. Ribot90 I wish you all the luck in the world please keep us posted on the progress of your two. Ciao for Now Oldflight
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51818 |
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Let's not forgot the breaker/starter who can literally make or break them. There are still far too many 'cowboys' being given the job because they're cheap or just down the road, by unknowledgeable, cheapskate owners
Best of luck with your 2 Ribot, I've noticed a few more winners popping up for him here |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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ribot90
Weanling Joined: 25 Dec 2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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well I have a lovely filly yearling by Cable Bay out of a Sea The Moon mare also a colt foal also great. you are right good food - a then a trainer which is key - I remember a relative of mine who was good friends with Frank Butters and he said 'anyone can train horses less than 10% know what they are doing' that is probably true. The word 'great' trainers is often misused.
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all horses can win
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45319 |
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Jamieson took a risk knocking back mares because they didn't fit his breeding theories and the horse failed. Whether he would haver failed irrespective is a moot point, however common sense suggests if you give a stallion more opportunity....
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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I'll never forget Barts saying Oldflight , " half the breeding , is in the feeding " . makes sense , but a wise old owl was he .
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oldflight
Champion Joined: 03 Jan 2010 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 621 |
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Well Uncommon James wins a Gr1 and India goes crazy,
Cable Bay now standing at Kehar Singh Stud Farm in Punjab Now that the dust has settled and the horse has been Relocated does the Group here have any opinions either way on the way the Horse was marketed, I mean via the if your mare fits our Breeding Plan / Formula you can come to this stallion. I know he covered 100/120 mares and in 2020 had the COV19 drop to 80 and they would have got out square or a bit in front. But from my experience many of a Stallions early crop winners come from many and varied bloodlines and families that you would never expect. When I was much younger, working on a Farm in WA we had a
cracking Mill Reef Stallion called Marooned, his first good horse was a filly
called Prime Again, She was by Sanhedrin Bread and Butter sire in WA (placed in
Seattle Slews Kentucky Derby) who was by
Good Counsel. Prime Again’s Dam was by the champ NZ sire So Big and the second
Dam was by the unbelievable Faux Tirage. Nobody was saying this was going to
work to a Mill reef horse. The farm thought so little of the mare that after foaling
down Prime Again and she was a scruffy foal they sold the mare on. So what in a round about way I am trying to show, is why
knock back people with good mares that may or may not be the making of your
stallion, you can also never underestimate the environmental factors and
feeding in-uterine that can assist in establishing a good athlete, as said by
people much smarter than me, they can come from anywhere. As we know people love there mares and being told your mare is not good enough, was a bit rich for some people who are of a thinner skin than mine, I really think this has made it hard for Woodside to get some of the mares in that Bracket back to their Farm. I know Dod's is doing his best but it is a struggle. And yes I know the horse only stood there on agreement. I did not mean for it to go longer than Diatribes Caufield Cup. But thats my take on it Ciao For Now Old Flight |
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45319 |
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Too little too late unfortunately GA. He's clearly doing better in the NH than here.
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Grey Affair
Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2017 Location: Queensland Status: Online Points: 2976 |
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Cable Bay looks to have sired a good one in Uncommon James (4g Cable Bay x Pickabee, by Jet Spur). He just won the Listed Regal Roller Stakes at Caulfield in an impressive manner. |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Cable Bay's Dragon Symbol A New Rising StarCable Bay | Asuncion Pineyrua By Tom Frary Unbeaten on the all-weather with three wins at Wolverhampton, Newcastle and Kempton coming by a combined margin of 12 1/2 lengths since the start of March, Yoshiro Kubota's Dragon Symbol (GB) (Cable Bay {GB}) made his first turf start an impressive one to earn TDN Rising Star status at Hamilton on Sunday. Sent off the 11-8 favourite to transform that prowess to the grass in the valuable MansionBet Best Odds Guaranteed EBF Tangerine Trees Conditions S., the Archie Watson-trained grey raced keenly tracking the early pace dropping back to five furlongs for the first time. In front passing the two-furlong pole, the grey did his familiar thing and went clear from there to register a 3 1/4-length verdict over the solid yardstick Significantly (GB) (Garswood {GB}). Jockey Adam McNamara was impressed. “He travelled really well considering five is probably a bit sharp for him,” he said of sire Cable Bay's first 'TDN Rising Star'. “I don't think he's ever galloped on grass at home, but Archie's horses are so straightforward it doesn't matter. He's in the [June 15] G1 King's Stand [at Royal Ascot] and I'm not sure where he'll go, but I'd hazard a guess and say he's more likely to go to the [G1] Commonwealth [Cup at Royal Ascot June 18]. He keeps improving somehow and is a very good one. I got a lead, as he was a little bit keen in front for Oisin [Murphy] the last day and he travelled beautifully. I galloped him a couple of months ago and said to Archie he could be an 85 horse, but he keeps finding and he looks a very good one. He's going to win a big one very soon, hopefully. It's not every day you get to ride one like that.” The winner is the first foal out of a half-sister to the listed-winning duo Smart Enough (GB) (Cadeaux Genereux {GB}) and Oasis Dancer (GB) (Oasis Dream {GB}) whose dam is the G1 Prix Saint-Alary third Good Enough (Fr) (Mukaddamah). She is also the second dam of the recent Listed Sean Barrett Bloodstock S. winner Laugh a Minute (GB) (Mayson {GB}), who was also placed in the G3 Prix de Meautry and G3 Chipchase S., and this stable's Endless Joy (GB) (Showcasing {GB}) who was third in the G3 Firth of Clyde S. The dam, who also hails from the family of the G1 Cheveley Park S. heroine Seazun (Ire) (Zieten), has a 2-year-old filly by Postponed (Ire) and a yearling colt by Adaay (Ire). 3rd-Hamilton, £35,000, Cond, 5-2, 3yo, 5f 7yT, :59.04, g/f. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Ticino
Champion Joined: 20 Oct 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 4432 |
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Hello,
maybe youlike to read, Cable Bay has a 2021 foal in Germany.
A Filly Cable Bay - Dyveke by Lando - Daytona Beach, foaled 08.03.21, bred by "Wiesengrund Stud". regards, Ticino |
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Grey Affair
Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2017 Location: Queensland Status: Online Points: 2976 |
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Jouska (3f Cable Bay x Quiet Protest, by Kingmambo) has won the LR Boadicea Stakes over 6 furlongs at Newmarket. |
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Vivarchi
Champion Joined: 15 Jan 2017 Status: Offline Points: 537 |
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He had his first 2nd crop 2yo winner last night. Minor race but won very impressively by 4L.
Atalis Bay i think was the name. Looks a nice colt.
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Jouska & Tomfre in Gr3 races Sun night at York
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45319 |
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One winner from seven or so starters. But early doors.
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Is that really all? If so very different to last year
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Grey Affair
Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2017 Location: Queensland Status: Online Points: 2976 |
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Live On Stage in Italy
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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I'm not sure that Cable Bay has had a 2YO wnr in Europe this year
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kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
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You are almost certainly 100% correct Furious.
Whilst there seems to be a valid reason that Inv Spirit crosses well with Choisir such as Inv Sp and Danehill Dancer both being Danzig/Sharpen Up, there may be something else at play. You pointed out Oxted lines of Selene. If we look at best stakeswinner from I Am Invincible/Choisir being Eckstein you see Eckstein tail female is Jesmond Lass who is dam of IAI damsire Canny Lad. And also the great grand dam sire of Eckstein is Sir Tristram who of course hails from Selene family.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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Mr Prospector
Champion Joined: 08 Dec 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2025 |
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Invincible Spirit is standing at the Irish national stud at a quoted fee of £100k .
Mayson , the sire of Oxted is standing Cheveley Park Stud (UK) at a fee of £5k . That looks like incredible value for a good sprinting son of Invincible Spirit with the £5k = to about $9k aud . |
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There are three types of lies - Lies ,Damn Lies and Statistics
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25066 |
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Choisir and Redoute's have a similar mix of blood and both lines go well with Invincible Spirit. Also while the female line has been quiet it does go back to Hyperion's 3rd dam Gondolette herself the dam of two classic winners as well as a winner of the Dewhurst S. So you couldn't see a family like that not crossing to something like Choisir with all his lines of Selene. And then shock horror the stallion Mayson is also of that female line. It doesn't always work but if it does you usually get a very good one. He just push the anti up again.
So the way I look at this horse Oxted is the female line and the male line and the damsire where a very good mix. But first and foremost it was that female line finding what it needed. So while I'd say Choisir and Invincible Spirit blood probably mixes well don't overlook the female line in the mating.
On a side line I've sometimes found horses winning by Australian breed sires and have checked the mares other produce. Often just to see what class of mare our stallions a serving in Europe. The number of mares with say four foals and the Aussie stallion has produced the only winner is quite strong. It's almost like they are sending all the also rans to see if they can introduce a bit of speed into the mix. |
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51818 |
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G1 July Cup Winner Features Familiar BloodlinesTara Madgwick - Saturday July 11 The
Group I Darley July Cup (5f) was run overnight at Newmarket with the
winner Oxsted giving another sire son of Invincible Spirit in Mayson his
first Group I winner, whilst also highlighting the merit of his dam
sire Choisir.
Mayson is the sire of Oxsted Mayson stands at Cheveley Park at a fee of 5,000 pounds. Oxtsed is the best of two winners from the handy four time winning Choisir mare Charlotte Rosina, whose immediate family is barren of Black Type. Interestingly for Australian breeders, Choisir mares have a good record with sons of Invincible Spirit, that nick producing 14 winners from 20 runners including four stakes-winners with Oxsted the first Group I winner and Australian bred Eckstein, a Group III winner that was second in the Group I VRC Myer Classic. That’s certainly food for thought this season given the plentiful supply of Choisir mares and the choice of no fewer than seven sons of Invincible Spirit at stud here this spring. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Vivarchi
Champion Joined: 15 Jan 2017 Status: Offline Points: 537 |
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This 3yo filly just ran a super 3rd in the Gp1 Kings Stand against the older sprinters at Ascot. She chased in vain Battaash all the way and got pipped by a late finisher on the line for 2nd. She's a ripper. For perspective, Battaash is apparently the highest rated horse in the world at 136. Liberty Beach is a great banner horse for Cable Bay. A lowly priced filly and matching it with the best in her short career. Great to see her improving from a top class 2yo into a better 3yo.
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Ticino
Champion Joined: 20 Oct 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 4432 |
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Hello, 'Cable Bay' hat some more placed offspring in Europe Ropey Guest (Cable Bay-Hadeeya by Oratorio) ran third in the "Dubai Autumn Stakes", 1600 meter, Group 3, Newmarket, 12.10.19. Breeder: Mrs. S. Hamilton & Kirtlington Stud Ltd, Trainer: G. Margarson, Jockey: S. Kelly Jouska (Cable Bay-Quiet Protest by Kingmambo) ran third in the "Cornwallis Stakes", 1000 meter, Group 3, Newmarket, 11.10.19, Breeder: Equity Growth Partners Ltd, Trainer: H. Candy, Jockey: S. Foley regards, Ticino
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Could you please elaborate on the patterns? I don’t closely follow the racing over there linghi I've posed the question on each of the queried stallions' threads Edited by Gay3 - 03 Oct 2019 at 5:29pm |
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to the victor
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Vivarchi
Champion Joined: 15 Jan 2017 Status: Offline Points: 537 |
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Cable Bay train keeps choofing along. 4 wins and a 2nd from last seven runners.
He's not only a clear leader on the European first season sire list, he is a clear leader on the overall UK leading 2yo sire list. All from a very average broodmare band and not many in the better stables. |
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Two comments:
He is upgrading mares The better runners have identified breeding patterns Those two things alone are good signs. Does it cross hemispheres? time will tell
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45319 |
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Thanks for telling us something most around here are well aware of.
Though the I Am invincible/Invincible Spirit success down-under does provide some justification for optimism regarding Cable Bay. ps just threw the Dubawi fellow in for interest.
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Progold
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 3212 |
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Statistics may suggest that first season success in the UK are not a great indicator of likely success here.
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