Islam - Time to Push Back?

And you can't say it's in their nature and then say it's taught to them.

subastral wrote: So this guy was born in Britain, by all reports your average college educated, Man U loving young guy. Completely normal until he went to Libya with his family. Why did he change? Why did he all of a sudden feel resentment to the country that took his parents in and gave him a chance at a great life?

The media I've read has predictably tried to portray him as either an evil inhuman psychopath or a normal english bloke who was disaffected by a visit to Libya... both BS designed to avoid any blame of the religion. Those who actually knew him simply say he began getting too much into the RELIGION after (?) encountering some other radical locals (and no doubt getting obsessed with the net.) I know we're all pluralist, tolerant, multicultural, PC etc these days, and that immigration helps economies etc, but surely it's time for more discussion with a wide range of muslim experts about what exactly there is in the religious traditions that these people can use to justify their disgusting acts. And to discuss why an Ariane Grande concert was seen as a legit targer in a war against western culture. All this "that's not real islam" and "religion of peace" and "we all just want to get along" with our "shared values" and "diversity" BS has surely had its day.

stayer wrote: The media I've read has predictably tried to portray him as either an evil inhuman psychopath or a normal english bloke who was disaffected by a visit to Libya... both BS designed to avoid any blame of the religion. Those who actually knew him simply say he began getting too much into the RELIGION after (?) encountering some other radical locals (and no doubt getting obsessed with the net.) I know we're all pluralist, tolerant, multicultural, PC etc these days, and that immigration helps economies etc, but surely it's time for more discussion with a wide range of muslim experts about what exactly there is in the religious traditions that these people can use to justify their disgusting acts. And to discuss why an Ariane Grande concert was seen as a legit targer in a war against western culture. All this "that's not real islam" and "religion of peace" and "we all just want to get along" with our "shared values" and "diversity" BS has surely had its day.

Shrunk in the Wash wrote: stayer wrote: that immigration helps economies etc,  In some ways yes but in other ways, it trashes it. Not sure where I heard it but something like more than 700,000 immigrants are on welfare. We've been told we have a major debt issue and a cut to this welfare would have the budget back in surplus in about 2 years.

I don't dispute either figure, Australians get a lot of welfare. That 4.6m figure came from a fact check on the claim that we are headed to two thirds of the population claiming welfare. It turns out to be around 50% now

about 85% of refugees are still unemployed after 5 years. many factors at play there. and refugees get the most welfare of anyone...every living expense is covered by centerlink.

still, unemployment benefits only accounts for 2% of govt spending. bigger things to worry about from a budget perspective.

Is it ever suggested that drugs play a part? At his age, too much dope? Psychosis? Would this, could be the answer, and some use it as the excuse to blame religion?

Isaac soloman wrote: Is it ever suggested that drugs play a part? At his age, too much dope? Psychosis? Would this, could be the answer, and some use it as the excuse to blame religion?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/apr/13/who-are-the-new-jihadis

Passing Through wrote: I don't dispute either figure, Australians get a lot of welfare. That 4.6m figure came from a fact check on the claim that we are headed to two thirds of the population claiming welfare. It turns out to be around 50% now I think your post was designed to mislead and outrage, I see a lot of that deliberately sensationalized and misleading crap online, so just offering perspective.  I am here to help

in relation to the article i linked above...

authors summary...

amongst other things he said, this was most striking and concerning:

"the radical is a young, second generation immigrant".

Those are not new revelations in that article cabo. Rattlesnake and others who preceded him used to quote those facts/stats ad nausium, it is not questioned. Agencies have been working with that profile for several years.

Unfortunately throughout history there is no shortage of young men who'll do the bidding of evil older men under the right circumstances. The sort of person who wants to join ISIS and gun down defenceless women and children were probably the same types who found gainful employment in SS Corps in Nazi Germany, or roamed the villages of Rwanda with a machete. All that's needed is the justification, and these people are being groomed.

cabosanlucas wrote: Mr Prospector wrote: I don't think anyone can dispute that the the Muslim communities in the west have a radicalisation problem with certain sections of their faith . Many of both the good and bad are now citizens of their respective countries and as such are not going anywhere , despite what some would like .  I haven't seen one sensible or practical suggestion from either side yet , and from what I can see nobody is supporting the radicals . The reaction they get from the extremists within our own community is exactly what they want and is why they do it .  Somehow we have to integrate all sections of the local muslim community into our society .  It would also probably be a start to halt all muslim immigration untill they find a solution to deal with these nutters . That should coincide with the west butting out of the middle east and all its problems plus stop supporting Israel as well .  if you read that link above, where the author did his own study...(europe radical jihadis)..,he points out that all these murderers led highly secular lives - clubbing, girls, sports etc. then they CHOSE to give it away for a life of martyrdom and murdering. it puts paid to the notion that these lunatics didnt or couldnt integrate, that somehow they were shunned by western society.