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Tiberian (FR)

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Magnolian Khan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 May 2017 at 8:43pm


NEWS / HORSE RACING
Buying a Cup horse - without heartbreak

BY BRUCE CLARK - @SNOWYCLARK
4 hours ago Horse Racing
Melbourne Cup hopeful Tiberian wins at Saint-Cloud
It is only a day or so after the heartbreaking news of the loss of Melbourne Cup runner-up Heartbreak City had reached Australian Thoroughbred Bloodstock’s Darren Dance.
And proving that life goes on and the dreams still flicker, the recently bought Tiberian wins a group 3 at Saint-Cloud in France.
That horse is a story in itself but Tiberian will carry the now ubiquitous ATB fluorescent yellow colours in this year’s Cup trying to go one better than Heartbreak City.

And Dance is keen to explain how this all happens.
“We have a formula to identify potential Cups horses, those with the right attributes as we see them, then we try and buy them,” Dance said.
“I’d say 80% of the doors we knock on are rejected, we understand most owners once they have found a good horse, they want to contest good races and don’t normally sell,” Dance said.
But the Tiberian deal was different - but then not too dissimilar from doing the Heartbreak City deal - via bloodstock agent Chris Blomeley.
It was Blomeley’s job to make the approach to the owners of Tiberian, a horse well sourced for the ATB team. It simply was – would they be interested in selling half the horse and name your price.”
The answer was yes and something around seven figures and Dance and Blomeley did the deal.
“I said to Chris ‘get them to sign’. It wasn’t cheap but we aren’t tyre kickers, that’s the reputation we have in the UK, we don’t waste time.
“If I think the price is fair, I look at it as if I was selling and think what I would be asking. If it’s too dear it’s a simple pass, if it’s fair we will pay,” Dance said.
“The owners (of Tiberian) harboured a dream to come to Australia, we were a good match, it’s gone better than we could have imagined, now for the Cup,” Dance said.
So the Tiberian deal was done in just five days, horse paid for and in two starts there was Sunday’s Group 2 Saint-Cloud win (qualifying it for the Melbourne Cup) and a first up Listed win, both times beating Godolphin’s favourite Talismatic).
Now Tiberian is already $34 at CrownBet to win the Cup.
His next start will be a Group 1, the Grand Prix Saint-Cloud in early July before a Melbourne Cup strategy being mapped out. The horse will race in Dance’s colours but with original trainer Alain Couetil in charge, just as Tony Martin prepared Heartbreak City for original owners.
“Our approach is to buy privately and race with the original owners. I’ve got experience of bringing horses to race in Australia in these races and that’s something we can put on the table and when we find owners who want to run in the Melbourne Cup we can say we have been there, done that,” Dance said.
Before Heartbreak City was Jakkalberry, third in the 2012 Cup, Dandino ran fifth in 2013, Seismoss ninth in 2014.
“It takes away the fear factor when we try to form a partnership. They’ve seen Dunaden and Americain win the Cup, if they want the experience to tick the Cup off racing’s bucket list we can provide that,” Dance said.
“And from my client's point of view, we can go and see our horse race in Europe to give them that experience of racing at Longchamp, Dubai, Royal Ascot or The Curragh, sometimes it’s not as much a case of how much you win, but the experience on both sides,” Dance said.
Now to the horse Tiberian himself, by a very little known sire called Tiberius Caeser, a grander name than he should be allowed to carry.
He raced 25 times, won his first start, a Group 3 at Bremen in Germany then raced in a raft of black type races and changed stables before “winning” a claiming race for women only jockeys at Chantilly then being disqualified in 2007.
Off to stud, the son of Zietan, was basically being used as a ‘teaser pony”, said Dance.
“I think he gets one mare a year to keep him interested, that’s it,” Dance said.
He has thrown only one other winner Magnentius, who one a single race at a track called Dieppe.
But Tiberian remains an entire himself and if he can win a Group 1 he becomes a far more valuable proposition after racing even if only carrying the blood of Tiberius Caeser.
But not forgotten by Dance in an eventful week is his partners in Heartbreak city from trainer Martin to the larger than life owners headed by Aidan Shiels.
“Part of what we do is to enjoy the time we spend together and we will never forget the nine month journey this horse took us on.
“I remember the night we were going to meet them, not knowing what sort of people they would be, but as you’d imagine we just wouldn’t swap the time with them and hopefully that’s the same with the Tiberian team.
“And we really needed that win on the weekend to pick us up after what happened with Heartbreak City.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2017 at 10:09am

TIBERIAN (FR)
Bay colt 2012 
Tiberius Caesar
Bay 2000
Zieten
Bay 1990
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Blue Note
Bay 1985
Habitat
Bay 1966
Sir Gaylord
Little Hut
1959
1952
2-s
4-r
Balsamique
Bay 1973
Tourangeau
Bruyere
1968
1967
1-t
16>
Thekla
Brown 1980
Prince Ippi
Brown 1969
Imperial
Chestnut 1960
Imi
Hurry
1953
1952
3-o
8-c
Prinzess Addi
Grey 1955
Agamemnon
Pindarella
1941
1938
9-h
1-s
Tania
Bay 1964
Orsini
Brown 1954
Ticino
Oranien
1939
1949
20-b
14-f
Traute
Bay 1956
Mangon
Traube
1949
1944
31>
8-b
Toamasina
Bay 2001
Marju
Brown 1988
Last Tycoon
Bay or brown 1983
Try My Best
Bay 1975
Northern Dancer
Sex Appeal
1961
1970
2-d
8-f
Mill Princess
Bay 1977
Mill Reef
Irish Lass
1968
1962
22-d
8-c
Flame of Tara
Bay 1980
Artaius
Bay 1974
Round Table
Stylish Pattern
1954
1961
2-f
14-c
Welsh Flame
Bay 1973
Welsh Pageant
Electric Flash
1966
1962
1-s
2-f
Top Speed
Chestnut 1995
Wolfhound
Chestnut 1989
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Special
1961
1969
2-d
5-h
Lassie Dear
Bay 1974
Buckpasser
Gay Missile
1963
1967
1-s
3-l
Marie de Beaujeu
Chestnut 1983
Kenmare
Grey 1975
Kalamoun
Belle of Ireland
1970
1964
9-c
1-m
Marie de Bethisy
Bay 1978
Balidar
Froidestrees
1966
1968
8-d
4-d
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 5m,5m
reductio ad absurdum
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Magnolian Khan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnolian Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 8:21pm
Running in a Group 1 tonight at 11.55pm Melb time
Good luck tillyras and owners
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by Magnolian Khan Magnolian Khan wrote:

Running in a Group 1 tonight at 11.55pm Melb time
Good luck tillyras and owners



Silverwave (7/2), Hawkbill (4/1), Zarak (4/1), Erupt (8/1), Robin Of Navan (9/1), My Dream Boat (10/1), Tiberian (11/1), Left Hand (14/1), Armande (14/1), Doha Dream (14/1)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 8:21am
1. Zarak
2. Silverware
3. Armande

....

8. Tiberian (9/1)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnolian Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 9:53am
Ran well up in grade I thought
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 10:23am
Racing Post comments state he was pushed along 500m out then weakened quickly to be beaten 32.75 len.

Doesn't sound too encouraging.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Smoke and Mirrors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2017 at 2:28pm
Congrats to tillyras and her team.
Won another Group 2 over 2500m last night at Deaville.
Now 4 wins from 5 starts for the new owners.
Next run will be in the Melbourne Cup
"Go Hard or Go Home”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 8:13pm
Hi All,

just a quick update on Tiberian. He has been in Australia for almost a week. The flight over went to plan, he travelled extremely well and actually weighed in at the same weight he was when he left the UK which is very rare (so they tell me).
Has settled in well at Werribee, we will be sticking the original plan of going straight into the Melbourne Cup without another run. Rider to be sorted out early next week.

Cheers,
Tillyras
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 8:41pm
Great luck tillyras. Beer
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnolian Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 1:05pm
I have been backing him weekly for a couple of months, anyone else rate him?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 1:37pm
I've got him on top, French form equal or better than that of Dunaden.

Has been winning narrowly but has been in slowly run races where other have been kept in it longer than what rivals will in the MC. Has been strong through the line.

Versatile, won on Good to Soft, won at 3000m, can sit midfield (don't like horses that will sit last few as they rarely win). Won his last 2 with 60 & 61.5kg.

Best value in the Cup, 31's still available...should be $10-15.

It is interesting there has been virtually no talk about him in the media...even watching Racing.com Ch 78 you would barely know he is in it. The ATB team have said they believe he is equal to Heartbreak City ability wise and probably has more upside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 3:02pm
Can't see why he isn't in the top few in betting. Have broken my rule for MC and gone early chipping away the last few weeks. Anyone got any idea why Craig Williams chose Wall of Fire over him??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 3:12pm
And anyone (Tilly?) know much about the french jockey? Did they perfer to have a local?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 3:22pm
An interesting side note about his sire Tiberius Caesar, he is now covering mares at his stud but breeders do not have to pay to breed to him...a donation of 50 magnums of champagne required... which has been upped to 100 for next year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote International Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 3:31pm
Peslier is a champion jockey. I still rate him top 10 in the world: he is strong, rarely makes mistakes (sure as hell not Jamie Spencer), and is very reliable for the big event. When I had a horse in France he was my choice and in my horse's first run (all debutantes), his ride was a classic and press referred to the ride as 'post master'. Of course I am biased (and watched the replay 100 times), but I have never seen a jockey keep pushing, never touching the horse with the whip ( he hates hitting them on their first start as he does not want to turn them off on their first run) and knowing he had the momentum he  relaxed his pressure with 3 strides to go and got up to win in the last stride by short half head. He is a good guy as well.

Michael Stoute and John Gosden have often used him for big races when he is available and they need a 2nd top international jockey. 

Peslier has ridden Tiberian for his last 5 starts and won 4, so Williams maybe did not have the choice. Frankly I would pick Olivier any day over Williams.  




  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by International International wrote:

Peslier is a champion jockey. I still rate him top 10 in the world: he is strong, rarely makes mistakes (sure as hell not Jamie Spencer), and is very reliable for the big event. When I had a horse in France he was my choice and in my horse's first run (all debutantes), his ride was a classic and press referred to the ride as 'post master'. Of course I am biased (and watched the replay 100 times), but I have never seen a jockey keep pushing, never touching the horse with the whip ( he hates hitting them on their first start as he does not want to turn them off on their first run) and knowing he had the momentum he  relaxed his pressure with 3 strides to go and got up to win in the last stride by short half head. He is a good guy as well.

Michael Stoute and John Gosden have often used him for big races when he is available and they need a 2nd top international jockey. 

Peslier has ridden Tiberian for his last 5 starts and won 4, so Williams maybe did not have the choice. Frankly I would pick Olivier any day over Williams.  




  



Thanks and sounds good to me! Apparently Williams did have first choice by oz media reports? Just wondering did connections want a local jockey for the race? Just read a thing put out in our media about Peslier and it says he's doing his research re the MC. All looks good. And it would all be a great background story and good publicity for the Cup if he won.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Magnolian Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

And anyone (Tilly?) know much about the french jockey? Did they perfer to have a local?


French jockey has won on him in his recent wins, I think that was PArt of the plan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 8:06pm
Something from Tiberian's form line... he beat the Godolphin horse Talismanic twice this year (March & May...Talismanic finishing 2nd on both occasions by 3 & 1L respectively) in France over 2400m...In July Talismanic beat Marmelo over 2600m by 1.25L.

Was obviously a fair while back but enough to suggest once again Tiberian should be shorter in the markets.

Talismanic goes around a $16 shot in the Breeder's Cup Turf at Del Mar this weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 8:17pm
Wouldn't read too much into the media re the rider choice.
Whatever has been published is mostly bull....

We are happy with our choice of rider and really looking forward to Tuesday,

Only thing we have to worry about, is the barrier draw. Going to be crucial to our chances, but in saying that, this is going to one week to remember
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by tillyras tillyras wrote:

Wouldn't read too much into the media re the rider choice.
Whatever has been published is mostly bull....

We are happy with our choice of rider and really looking forward to Tuesday,

Only thing we have to worry about, is the barrier draw. Going to be crucial to our chances, but in saying that, this is going to one week to remember
 
Good luck and hope your horse does you proud.  Thumbs Up
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 4:42am
Originally posted by Lord Hybrow Lord Hybrow wrote:

Racing Post comments state he was pushed along 500m out then weakened quickly to be beaten 32.75 len.

Doesn't sound too encouraging.

Good luck Tuesday tillyras!

Can you shed some light on his awful run 3 starts ago at St Cloud when he was beaten 32 lengths?   Was it the soft track that was his undoing that day? Or is he just not a G1 level horse in Europe?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tillyras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 6:09am
Originally posted by Lord Hybrow Lord Hybrow wrote:

Originally posted by Lord Hybrow Lord Hybrow wrote:

Racing Post comments state he was pushed along 500m out then weakened quickly to be beaten 32.75 len.

Doesn't sound too encouraging.

Good luck Tuesday tillyras!

Can you shed some light on his awful run 3 starts ago at St Cloud when he was beaten 32 lengths?   Was it the soft track that was his undoing that day? Or is he just not a G1 level horse in Europe?


thanks, we basically put that down to rider error. He stuffed up the tactics big time and received a deserved blast from connections that day. He learnt his lesson and has come out and won another two races on him since.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 8:43am
Tillyras, where do the team want him to sit on Tuesday? Obviously barrier dependent but I assume somewhere midfield? Not too far back?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 5:13pm
Peslier will have to work magic out there in the carpark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnolian Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 5:16pm
Barrier 23 ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote International Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2017 at 8:53am
Talismanic winning the Breeders Cup is a nice form boost. Shame about the barrier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2017 at 9:30am
All the best for Tuesday tilly.  Has TBV ever had a Cup runner before??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breeding Above All Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2017 at 12:54pm
Anyone know the quality of the field for breeders cup? Any insights on where the Breeders Cup stacks up too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2017 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Breeding Above All Breeding Above All wrote:

Anyone know the quality of the field for breeders cup? Any insights on where the Breeders Cup stacks up too?

Highland Reel ran 3rd. 


reductio ad absurdum
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