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Tiberian (FR) |
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Magnolian Khan
Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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Posted: 10 May 2017 at 8:43pm |
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NEWS / HORSE RACING Buying a Cup horse - without heartbreak BY BRUCE CLARK - @SNOWYCLARK 4 hours ago Horse Racing Melbourne Cup hopeful Tiberian wins at Saint-Cloud It is only a day or so after the heartbreaking news of the loss of Melbourne Cup runner-up Heartbreak City had reached Australian Thoroughbred Bloodstock’s Darren Dance. And proving that life goes on and the dreams still flicker, the recently bought Tiberian wins a group 3 at Saint-Cloud in France. That horse is a story in itself but Tiberian will carry the now ubiquitous ATB fluorescent yellow colours in this year’s Cup trying to go one better than Heartbreak City. And Dance is keen to explain how this all happens. “We have a formula to identify potential Cups horses, those with the right attributes as we see them, then we try and buy them,” Dance said. “I’d say 80% of the doors we knock on are rejected, we understand most owners once they have found a good horse, they want to contest good races and don’t normally sell,” Dance said. But the Tiberian deal was different - but then not too dissimilar from doing the Heartbreak City deal - via bloodstock agent Chris Blomeley. It was Blomeley’s job to make the approach to the owners of Tiberian, a horse well sourced for the ATB team. It simply was – would they be interested in selling half the horse and name your price.” The answer was yes and something around seven figures and Dance and Blomeley did the deal. “I said to Chris ‘get them to sign’. It wasn’t cheap but we aren’t tyre kickers, that’s the reputation we have in the UK, we don’t waste time. “If I think the price is fair, I look at it as if I was selling and think what I would be asking. If it’s too dear it’s a simple pass, if it’s fair we will pay,” Dance said. “The owners (of Tiberian) harboured a dream to come to Australia, we were a good match, it’s gone better than we could have imagined, now for the Cup,” Dance said. So the Tiberian deal was done in just five days, horse paid for and in two starts there was Sunday’s Group 2 Saint-Cloud win (qualifying it for the Melbourne Cup) and a first up Listed win, both times beating Godolphin’s favourite Talismatic). Now Tiberian is already $34 at CrownBet to win the Cup. His next start will be a Group 1, the Grand Prix Saint-Cloud in early July before a Melbourne Cup strategy being mapped out. The horse will race in Dance’s colours but with original trainer Alain Couetil in charge, just as Tony Martin prepared Heartbreak City for original owners. “Our approach is to buy privately and race with the original owners. I’ve got experience of bringing horses to race in Australia in these races and that’s something we can put on the table and when we find owners who want to run in the Melbourne Cup we can say we have been there, done that,” Dance said. Before Heartbreak City was Jakkalberry, third in the 2012 Cup, Dandino ran fifth in 2013, Seismoss ninth in 2014. “It takes away the fear factor when we try to form a partnership. They’ve seen Dunaden and Americain win the Cup, if they want the experience to tick the Cup off racing’s bucket list we can provide that,” Dance said. “And from my client's point of view, we can go and see our horse race in Europe to give them that experience of racing at Longchamp, Dubai, Royal Ascot or The Curragh, sometimes it’s not as much a case of how much you win, but the experience on both sides,” Dance said. Now to the horse Tiberian himself, by a very little known sire called Tiberius Caeser, a grander name than he should be allowed to carry. He raced 25 times, won his first start, a Group 3 at Bremen in Germany then raced in a raft of black type races and changed stables before “winning” a claiming race for women only jockeys at Chantilly then being disqualified in 2007. Off to stud, the son of Zietan, was basically being used as a ‘teaser pony”, said Dance. “I think he gets one mare a year to keep him interested, that’s it,” Dance said. He has thrown only one other winner Magnentius, who one a single race at a track called Dieppe. But Tiberian remains an entire himself and if he can win a Group 1 he becomes a far more valuable proposition after racing even if only carrying the blood of Tiberius Caeser. But not forgotten by Dance in an eventful week is his partners in Heartbreak city from trainer Martin to the larger than life owners headed by Aidan Shiels. “Part of what we do is to enjoy the time we spend together and we will never forget the nine month journey this horse took us on. “I remember the night we were going to meet them, not knowing what sort of people they would be, but as you’d imagine we just wouldn’t swap the time with them and hopefully that’s the same with the Tiberian team. “And we really needed that win on the weekend to pick us up after what happened with Heartbreak City.” |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Magnolian Khan
Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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Running in a Group 1 tonight at 11.55pm Melb time
Good luck tillyras and owners |
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Brudder_A
Champion Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Location: Uzhhorod Status: Offline Points: 4262 |
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Silverwave (7/2), Hawkbill (4/1), Zarak (4/1), Erupt (8/1), Robin Of Navan (9/1), My Dream Boat (10/1), Tiberian (11/1), Left Hand (14/1), Armande (14/1), Doha Dream (14/1) |
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Brudder_A
Champion Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Location: Uzhhorod Status: Offline Points: 4262 |
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1. Zarak
2. Silverware 3. Armande .... 8. Tiberian (9/1) |
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Magnolian Khan
Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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Ran well up in grade I thought
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6683 |
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Racing Post comments state he was pushed along 500m out then weakened quickly to be beaten 32.75 len.
Doesn't sound too encouraging.
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Smoke and Mirrors
Champion Joined: 10 Sep 2016 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
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Congrats to tillyras and her team.
Won another Group 2 over 2500m last night at Deaville. Now 4 wins from 5 starts for the new owners. Next run will be in the Melbourne Cup
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"Go Hard or Go Home”
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tillyras
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7540 |
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Hi All,
just a quick update on Tiberian. He has been in Australia for almost a week. The flight over went to plan, he travelled extremely well and actually weighed in at the same weight he was when he left the UK which is very rare (so they tell me). Has settled in well at Werribee, we will be sticking the original plan of going straight into the Melbourne Cup without another run. Rider to be sorted out early next week. Cheers, Tillyras
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Great luck tillyras.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Magnolian Khan
Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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I have been backing him weekly for a couple of months, anyone else rate him?
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James0330
Champion Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2056 |
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I've got him on top, French form equal or better than that of Dunaden.
Has been winning narrowly but has been in slowly run races where other have been kept in it longer than what rivals will in the MC. Has been strong through the line. Versatile, won on Good to Soft, won at 3000m, can sit midfield (don't like horses that will sit last few as they rarely win). Won his last 2 with 60 & 61.5kg. Best value in the Cup, 31's still available...should be $10-15. It is interesting there has been virtually no talk about him in the media...even watching Racing.com Ch 78 you would barely know he is in it. The ATB team have said they believe he is equal to Heartbreak City ability wise and probably has more upside. |
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stayer
Champion Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Status: Offline Points: 21914 |
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Can't see why he isn't in the top few in betting. Have broken my rule for MC and gone early chipping away the last few weeks. Anyone got any idea why Craig Williams chose Wall of Fire over him??
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stayer
Champion Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Status: Offline Points: 21914 |
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And anyone (Tilly?) know much about the french jockey? Did they perfer to have a local?
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James0330
Champion Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2056 |
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An interesting side note about his sire Tiberius Caesar, he is now covering mares at his stud but breeders do not have to pay to breed to him...a donation of 50 magnums of champagne required... which has been upped to 100 for next year.
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International
Champion Joined: 13 May 2012 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 964 |
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Peslier is a champion jockey. I still rate him top 10 in the world: he is strong, rarely makes mistakes (sure as hell not Jamie Spencer), and is very reliable for the big event. When I had a horse in France he was my choice and in my horse's first run (all debutantes), his ride was a classic and press referred to the ride as 'post master'. Of course I am biased (and watched the replay 100 times), but I have never seen a jockey keep pushing, never touching the horse with the whip ( he hates hitting them on their first start as he does not want to turn them off on their first run) and knowing he had the momentum he relaxed his pressure with 3 strides to go and got up to win in the last stride by short half head. He is a good guy as well.
Michael Stoute and John Gosden have often used him for big races when he is available and they need a 2nd top international jockey. Peslier has ridden Tiberian for his last 5 starts and won 4, so Williams maybe did not have the choice. Frankly I would pick Olivier any day over Williams. |
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stayer
Champion Joined: 10 Aug 2010 Status: Offline Points: 21914 |
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Thanks and sounds good to me! Apparently Williams did have first choice by oz media reports? Just wondering did connections want a local jockey for the race? Just read a thing put out in our media about Peslier and it says he's doing his research re the MC. All looks good. And it would all be a great background story and good publicity for the Cup if he won. |
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Magnolian Khan
Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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French jockey has won on him in his recent wins, I think that was PArt of the plan |
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James0330
Champion Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2056 |
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Something from Tiberian's form line... he beat the Godolphin horse Talismanic twice this year (March & May...Talismanic finishing 2nd on both occasions by 3 & 1L respectively) in France over 2400m...In July Talismanic beat Marmelo over 2600m by 1.25L.
Was obviously a fair while back but enough to suggest once again Tiberian should be shorter in the markets. Talismanic goes around a $16 shot in the Breeder's Cup Turf at Del Mar this weekend. |
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tillyras
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7540 |
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Wouldn't read too much into the media re the rider choice.
Whatever has been published is mostly bull.... We are happy with our choice of rider and really looking forward to Tuesday, Only thing we have to worry about, is the barrier draw. Going to be crucial to our chances, but in saying that, this is going to one week to remember
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Flight
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Nambucca Valley Status: Offline Points: 3897 |
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Good luck and hope your horse does you proud. |
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“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
― V.C. King |
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6683 |
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Good luck Tuesday tillyras! Can you shed some light on his awful run 3 starts ago at St Cloud when he was beaten 32 lengths? Was it the soft track that was his undoing that day? Or is he just not a G1 level horse in Europe? |
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tillyras
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7540 |
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thanks, we basically put that down to rider error. He stuffed up the tactics big time and received a deserved blast from connections that day. He learnt his lesson and has come out and won another two races on him since. |
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James0330
Champion Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2056 |
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Tillyras, where do the team want him to sit on Tuesday? Obviously barrier dependent but I assume somewhere midfield? Not too far back?
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James0330
Champion Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2056 |
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Peslier will have to work magic out there in the carpark.
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Magnolian Khan
Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2015 Location: SA Status: Offline Points: 8437 |
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Barrier 23 ouch
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International
Champion Joined: 13 May 2012 Location: Dubai Status: Offline Points: 964 |
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Talismanic winning the Breeders Cup is a nice form boost. Shame about the barrier.
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Shawy38
Champion Joined: 13 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 17413 |
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All the best for Tuesday tilly. Has TBV ever had a Cup runner before??
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Breeding Above All
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Status: Offline Points: 715 |
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Anyone know the quality of the field for breeders cup? Any insights on where the Breeders Cup stacks up too?
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Highland Reel ran 3rd. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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