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2017 Melbourne Cup

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    Posted: 09 Sep 2019 at 5:54am
Originally posted by deejays destiny deejays destiny wrote:

From A bensley

Cup winner Rekindling, US Army Ranger and Johannes Vermeer already spelling at Mt Macedon. Thomas Hobson, Wicklow Brave, Nakeeta all go home



Ran in 2016/17 Melbourne Cup

Wicklow Brave  is set to go on this travels after maintaining his unbeaten record over fences with a relatively hard-fought success in the Cheestrings Novice Chase at Listowel.

That's his last race this side of the Atlantic for a while as we go to Far Hills, New Jersey, USA for the Grand National Hurdle Stakes in October (2019) next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 4:57pm
I think I'll take a permanent spell from the MC.
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From A bensley

Cup winner Rekindling, US Army Ranger and Johannes Vermeer already spelling at Mt Macedon. Thomas Hobson, Wicklow Brave, Nakeeta all go home

In other Melbourne Cup news... Max Dynamite for @WillieMullinsNH is expected to join Tiberian in running @HKJC_Racing International meeting.

Marmelo is returning home to UK to spell on owners property. Trainer Hughie Morrison would love to bring back to Melbourne Cup next year.

Wall of Fire to stay here, gone for spell. TBC on who trains

Red Cardinal to join Weir
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

I remember posting long ago that Bart had the key . =   Get them in light.
These wealthy Syndicates have dozens of potential Cup horses on their purchase list already.      Like throwing wheat.
The C.C will be a preferred stepping stone now , No penalty will be
ideal .     Qualify in a Maiden at Ascot and Bob's your uncle.
    The total career wins, of all 3 placed horses this year was 11 .
Glorified Welter has the MC well named , But any changes would kill the golden goose.
   Soooo   What will Win the M. Cup in 2018 .. ???


I think most Bart's Cup winners had an ideal weight, although Think Big carried 58.5kg and won...but yep you are right...the "Get 'em in light" was the key
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 1:53pm
I remember posting long ago that Bart had the key . =   Get them in light.
These wealthy Syndicates have dozens of potential Cup horses on their purchase list already.      Like throwing wheat.
The C.C will be a preferred stepping stone now , No penalty will be
ideal .     Qualify in a Maiden at Ascot and Bob's your uncle.
    The total career wins, of all 3 placed horses this year was 11 .
Glorified Welter has the MC well named , But any changes would kill the golden goose.
   Soooo   What will Win the M. Cup in 2018 .. ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by jacko1 jacko1 wrote:

To be fair if you take those rich owners and their overseas horses out of the race I don't know if you have much of a race. I love staying races but the best Australian horses are clearly sprinters. The local industry is enamored with short distance and quick returns. No one can say that Lloyd is bad for staying races in this country, without him it would be even worse. 

A vast amount of prize money is in races beyond 1600m.

To limit horse training, ownership or breeding to 2yos and sprinters is really narrowing your opportunities.

I am not sure the local industry is as enamoured with short course racing as we are led to believe.




reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacko1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 12:03pm
To be fair if you take those rich owners and their overseas horses out of the race I don't know if you have much of a race. I love staying races but the best Australian horses are clearly sprinters. The local industry is enamored with short distance and quick returns. No one can say that Lloyd is bad for staying races in this country, without him it would be even worse. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:25am
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

thats true, and i can see the argument of if he wants to tip millions in to racing, he deserves success as much as anyone.

if trends continue..and it becomes a slot race for a few racing empires...they might have to look at limiting horses from one stable or syndicate.

Agree - it has certainly become that.  

79% of runners were bred o'seas (outside AUS/NZ).

It is becoming a 3200m Everest with the prizemoney
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Ouch Yes Smile
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:14am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Conversely it would or is an amazing achievement to get so many in.

I can not get my head around the fact not one Classic horse from last season did not make the race.


None did, you mean ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:10am
Conversely it would or is an amazing achievement to get so many in.

I can not get my head around the fact not one Classic horse from last season did not make the race.

reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 10:08am
The qualification rules may require changing, to limit horses that are hopelessly out of form, but might have done something a couple of years ago that gives them a guaranteed run.
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Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

thats true, and i can see the argument of if he wants to tip millions in to racing, he deserves success as much as anyone.

if trends continue..and it becomes a slot race for a few racing empires...they might have to look at limiting horses from one stable or syndicate.




I'm not sure about limiting numbers for owners as I'd prefer to see the best field. However, to me id think there would be a little less satisfaction as an owner winning the race when you have half the field compared to if you only have one runner. It might be just me but getting a positive outcome simply through weight of numbers would lessen an achievement for me.
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thats true, and i can see the argument of if he wants to tip millions in to racing, he deserves success as much as anyone.

if trends continue..and it becomes a slot race for a few racing empires...they might have to look at limiting horses from one stable or syndicate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 9:34am
Originally posted by Bombers41 Bombers41 wrote:

Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Winner and exacta so a good day.

that said...

lloyd williams and his cronies. please. you can just tell, winning another cup for him is celebrated like a wall street spiv celebrates a win on the stock market. its a business win and nothing more to these snobs.

mick goodie should be looking for a job. another bias track. sack him.



agree with this. sick of Lloyd and his arrogant snobs. its not sour grapes - I backed Big Duke and a couple of others who weren't good enough on the day. But Lloyd prancing around the course hogging the camera's and seeking attention takes away from the mystique of the race. How bloody long was his acceptance speak - and that drunken sweetheart Gudinski - what a pain in the arse... Really hope we can see a local trainer or someone else not connected with Lloyd take the Cup next year...!!!

Lloyd WIlliams is not the only tycoon to throw large sums at winning the Cup, but he has been the most successful. If he managed to take up half the field even ( about a quarter this time), and it is all within the rules, your beef is properly with the people making rules, not those working within those rules. It is just a microcosm of the larger world, in that respect.
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The only person who could match Lloyd is no longer with us.......Bart Cummings.

It just shows how much of a force Bart was....especially when it came to the Melbourne Cup.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bombers41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 8:03am
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Winner and exacta so a good day.

that said...

lloyd williams and his cronies. please. you can just tell, winning another cup for him is celebrated like a wall street spiv celebrates a win on the stock market. its a business win and nothing more to these snobs.

mick goodie should be looking for a job. another bias track. sack him.


agree with this. sick of Lloyd and his arrogant snobs. its not sour grapes - I backed Big Duke and a couple of others who weren't good enough on the day. But Lloyd prancing around the course hogging the camera's and seeking attention takes away from the mystique of the race. How bloody long was his acceptance speak - and that drunken sweetheart Gudinski - what a pain in the arse... Really hope we can see a local trainer or someone else not connected with Lloyd take the Cup next year...!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 8:46pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

True I guess.


irish joke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Mate I'm still figuring out what I've won! Had 100 on the winner a couple of weeks back, quinella X 5, a slice of the tri and 4% of first 4 (first time ever!). Plus have Rekindling in 3 quaddies and 2 multies.
If Johannes had faded like I thought he would I would've had first 4 50%.


Great

A reward for being You..   NOW, Not too much Champers

Thanks macca. Killing me not being able to get hammered - am writing reports and back to the ferals tomorrow.


Well done stayer ... but no Kyneton Cup!!???Cry

Gotta have a sickie on Thursday after that!!! ... got anything going into the Oaks?


Did you end up hooking into tne winner doc? ...You liked its profile. hope you did
👍

Just a small saver, that didn't actually save me!Dead

Bet Exotics mostly - no joy  

Landed on Almandin (and Hartnell), and then Gallante walked in front Cry.

Couldn't have them all, and along with Marmelo, Humidor and Wall of Fire, I also risked JV ... 1st 3rd and 4th once again!Ouch 

You did ok though, and so did the battling owner, so I can't complain!LOLAngry
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True I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Just watched race again for first time, and have to say kudos to Ben Allen. Fair effort under pressure!


thought so too.
maybe wait until straightening before going for the whip (get balanced and all that stuff) but had to wind the horse up as a bit of a plodder. between a rock and a hard place.

The aerial view shows what a good job he did. Relaxed, avoided trouble, started moving maybe a touch too soon but the horse was never going to storm home - needed to build into it. The inside horses just saved a hell of a lot of distance/ petrol. Doubt Moreira could have done better.


"he started moving a touch too soon but the horse was never going to storm home. "

that makes zero sense.

the horse settled last of 23 runners. at what point did he go too soon? 🤔
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

This was a "team effort" post barrier draw I reckon.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 7:13pm
Macca it was the dreaded slow-down mid section that helped those with the cheap runs. If there'd been a euro-style genuine pacemaker it would have had a very different result, at least for those outside of the winner, who ran a bloody good race no matter how you look at it. This was a "team effort" post barrier draw I reckon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Just watched race again for first time, and have to say kudos to Ben Allen. Fair effort under pressure!


thought so too.
maybe wait until straightening before going for the whip (get balanced and all that stuff) but had to wind the horse up as a bit of a plodder. between a rock and a hard place.

The aerial view shows what a good job he did. Relaxed, avoided trouble, started moving maybe a touch too soon but the horse was never going to storm home - needed to build into it. The inside horses just saved a hell of a lot of distance/ petrol. Doubt Moreira could have done better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Just watched race again for first time, and have to say kudos to Ben Allen. Fair effort under pressure!

thought so too.
maybe wait until straightening before going for the whip (get balanced and all that stuff) but had to wind the horse up as a bit of a plodder. between a rock and a hard place.
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Originally posted by Nocturnal Nocturnal wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Did Dettori get him cover? I heard the caller say that he was going to be 3 wide the whole way but I wasn't looking at Almandin.


No cover , bumped with Ventura Storm over and over. The bloke is f**king a terrible rider for Aus conditions. Why do we keep putting him on? bewildering !! 16 goes for two seconds and a number of questionable rides. Overrated IMO



Spot on . Pathetic ride by Dettori. No wonder the horse ran flat with that sack of spuds on his back
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 6:38pm
Top link Stayer .. That aerial view is a must see.
Would be a great tool for every race run ... I might pick a winner.
With the muddling pace the ones drawn wide were no hope of getting in .
2, 3 , 4, 5 , barriers were the first 4 and all travelled on the rail, most of the trip.
If the 2nd horse wins, it would have been a great ride, but now , "he was impatient".     The winner had God on his side when he went inside the tiring horse near the turn & that won him the Race.
Almandin 3 wide and Amelie's Star 4 wide all the way.
Circumstances decide such a race --- No real excuses for most of us , we knew the draw before we used our pin.
Now about that loan Stayer --
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Just watched race again for first time, and have to say kudos to Ben Allen. Fair effort under pressure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by stayer stayer wrote:

Mate I'm still figuring out what I've won! Had 100 on the winner a couple of weeks back, quinella X 5, a slice of the tri and 4% of first 4 (first time ever!). Plus have Rekindling in 3 quaddies and 2 multies.
If Johannes had faded like I thought he would I would've had first 4 50%.


Great

A reward for being You..   NOW, Not too much Champers

Thanks macca. Killing me not being able to get hammered - am writing reports and back to the ferals tomorrow.


Well done stayer ... but no Kyneton Cup!!???Cry

Gotta have a sickie on Thursday after that!!! ... got anything going into the Oaks?

Doc, I've never had the balls to take a sickie on Oaks day. Too obvious. No got nothing in the Oaks and glad I don't but will throw on a quaddie.
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