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Northern territory prison brutalisation

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Isaac soloman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 11:00am
This "carer" missed his calling. Try prison guard. Should be better scrutiny of staff for these places, including detention centres. Some of the blokes at Don Dale looked like bouncers. Fancy needing that brawn to tackle an 11 year old.

 Hidden camera captures abuse, apparent suffocation attempt of elderly man in Adelaide nursing home
JULY 26, 20165:14PM
 

Hidden camera reveals disturbing elder abuse.

Brad Crouch, Lauren Novak, Jade Gailberger, Doug Robertson The Advertiser

THE daughter of an elderly man subjected to a shocking attack by a carer says monitoring devices such as CCTV should be allowed in bedrooms in nursing homes and other institutions to protect the vulnerable.

Hidden camera footage taken by Noleen Hausler shows a carer appearing to try to “suffocate” her father, Clarence, 89, at the Mitcham Residential Care Facility.

The video, aired Monday night on the ABC’s 7.30, shows Mr Hausler fighting back as the carer repeatedly stuffs a napkin in his mouth and over his nose in September last year.

It also shows the carer violently force-feeding Mr Hausler, sneezing on him and hitting him on the head. Mr Hausler is bedridden with dementia.

The carer, Corey Lyle Lucas, 29, of Camden Park, pleaded guilty in the Adelaide Magistrates Court to two counts of aggravated assault and was convicted last month. He received a six-month jail sentence, with one month imprisonment.

The remainder was suspended on the condition he complete a 18-month good behaviour bond.

Hidden camera captures abuse at Adelaide nursing home

Ms Hausler told The Advertiser she believed Lucas would have served only “a matter of weeks”.

Ms Hausler took the drastic step of hiding a camera after becoming increasingly concerned about her father’s behaviour and noticing he had bruising and bloodshot eyes from crying.

Dissatisfied with the home’s response to her and worried about the carer’s evasive manner, she hid the tiny spy camera in her father’s room and was devastated to see the shocking abuse in what was supposed to be a sanctuary, reporting it to Sturt Police.

Rather than thanking her for exposing the violent abuse, home operator Japara Healthcare threatened Ms Hausler with breaching the Privacy Act, Video Surveillance Act and the Aged Care acts.

“I’ve been told if I put a camera in there again, it will be confiscated and the police will be called,” Ms Hausler said.

Dementia patient Clarence Hausler, suffered abuse at the hands of his carer.

Dementia patient Clarence Hausler, suffered abuse at the hands of his carer.Source:Supplied

Corey Lucas.

Corey Lucas.Source:Supplied

“I’ve kept my father at Mitcham because I think it was the person doing this despicable acts rather than the institution, but we need change — I would like to see a clause in the tenancy agreement that says if a family has concerns they can put monitoring equipment in.”

Ms Hausler said she released the vision to the media as a last resort.

“I asked for a meeting with Attorney-General John Rau to go through what is actually allowed and what the various acts stipulate as far as using a monitor goes but received a letter saying a meeting was not appropriate and to seek legal advice instead,” she said.

“I want to see change — these people are sitting targets for people who feel the power to abuse them in the privacy of a bedroom.

Secret camera captures nursing home staff member appearing to attempt to suffocate 87-year-old. Tonight on#abc730https://t.co/mtoFOvPnhW

— abc730 (@abc730) July 25, 2016

“That abuse can take many forms and the victims don’t have a voice — monitoring equipment would give them that voice and protect them from deplorable behaviour.

“Facilities doing the right thing can still have grey areas and you won’t get change unless families are allowed to put monitoring equipment in private rooms.”

Premier Jay Weatherill on Tuesday said authorities should “consider all options”, including surveillance monitoring, to ensure aged care residents were safe.

“I understand the person involved (in the abuse of Mr Hausler) has been dealt with through the criminal justice system but I think we need other safeguards,” Mr Weatherill said.

“There obviously needs to be the training and monitoring of the way in which people are employed and screened for employment, but I think we do need to give consideration for other technological measures.

Corey Lucas. Pic: Facebook

Corey Lucas. Pic: FacebookSource:Supplied

“We’re certainly prepared to engage in a discussion with the Commonwealth Government about the matter.”

Mr Weatherill said people should be able to trust paid carers with the welfare of older relatives.

“When we put our loved ones in aged care facilities they’re only there because they are too frail to be cared for at home - that means they are inherently vulnerable,” he said.

“What we rely on is that they are going to be cared for there and we certainly expect that they will not be the subject of abuse.”

The State Opposition said it would support allowing surveillance cameras in aged care facilities.

Opposition Deputy Leader Vickie Chapman said on Tuesday that it was “appalling” that elderly residents were being “abused in their own homes” .

It was “clear that we need o introduce legislation to allow surveillance devices to be used to help prevent (this) abuse”, she said.

Ms Chapman said nursing home residents should be able to install video equipment in their rooms to protect themselves - even though the property was owned by someone else.

She said this should be done at the instigation of the resident and with the consent of their guardian, if necessary.

Notice should be given to the operators of the nursing home and signs erected to warn people that they would be filmed, Ms Chapman said.

However it was not clear if the permission of the aged care facility owner should be needed.

It was also unclear who should be responsible for operating the surveillance camera and monitoring the recordings if the resident was unable to do it themselves.

Ms Chapman said the Opposition was seeking a meeting with the Government to flesh out the detail of any proposed legislation.

Asked about the legality of making such a covert recording, Ms Chapman said changes could be needed to the Surveillance Devices Act to state that recordings made to protect aged care residents were inherently in the public interest.

Federal Assistant Health and Aged Care Minister Ken Wyatt said he would be willing to see cameras installed in residents’ rooms, provided that the residents agreed and state laws were complied with.

​”The issue surrounding the usage of surveillance devices, including cameras in residents’ rooms, is a matter for the approved provider and relevant care recipient and is governed by the relevant state and territory legislation​,’’ Mr Wyatt said.​”​

“Under Commonwealth law, aged care providers must balance each care recipient’s right to privacy and dignity with the care recipient’s right to live without exploitation and abuse.”​

​Mr Wyatt said the Mitcham home had met a requirement to inform the Federal Department of Health within 24 hours of the attack on Mr Hausler occurring.

Mr Wyatt said he was very concerned about the care of Mr Hausler and anyone with concerns about aged care services should contact the Aged Care Complaints Commissioner.

Mr Rau on Monday would not comment on the case, but said that if the operators of a care facility and family agreed to installing a surveillance device, “that would be a matter for them”.

“If they did not agree and a device was installed covertly the family would need legal advice,” he said.

“A provision is made in the surveillance act for a covert device if it is in the public interest. The Crown does not provide private citizens with legal advice, so again it would be a matter for the family.”

A still taken from the shocking footage, appearing to document the abuse of elderly man Clarence Hausler. Picture: Noleen Hausler/7.30.

A still taken from the shocking footage, appearing to document the abuse of elderly man Clarence Hausler. Picture: Noleen Hausler/7.30.Source:Supplied

Mr Hausler has been at the facility since 2002 when it was run by Whelan Care.

The Hauslers’ lawyer, Adair Donaldson, of abuse survivor specialists Donaldson Law, agreed the best way to protect vulnerable people was installation of monitoring equipment.

“We were all shocked when we saw the video — you can imagine how Ms Hausler felt,” he said.

“It is every child’s worst nightmare to see your elderly parent abused, just as having your child abused is every parent’s nightmare.

“The home’s operators will say it was a rogue, but what we need — to make sure rogues are weeded out — is the ability to put in monitoring equipment to protect the most vulnerable.”

Mitcham Residential Care referred inquiries to the Melbourne head office.

In a statement, an Aged Care Services Australia Group spokeswoman said the company was “shocked, concerned and saddened” to learn of the incident in September 2015.

“This was a rogue act by someone who has now been criminally prosecuted,” she said.

“This conduct is not tolerated by our organisation and is completely at odds with the care, dedication and commitment displayed by the over 4,500 nurses, carers and other staff across our homes every day.

“We reiterate our sincere apologies to the resident and his family.

“As soon as we became aware of the incident, the individual was immediately suspended and we have assisted with the police investigation which has since led to a conviction.

“The provision of high quality care to our residents is our absolute priority. When we purchased the business from Whelan Care, we took over all of their staff and we have subsequently increased overall staffing levels.

“The issue of whether cameras should be permitted in residents’ private bedrooms and bathrooms is an extremely complex one, especially as many residents are toileted, changed and showered in these areas.

“It raises important questions about consent, and the privacy and dignity of all residents.

“While we have cameras in common areas in our homes, we don’t have any plans to introduce them into residents’ private bedrooms and bathrooms.”

The company sent Ms Hausler a letter of apology after their initial threats about her breaching various acts.

An Aged Care Complaints Commissioner spokeswoman said under the Aged Care Act they could not give any information about whether action had been taken against Japara Healthcare or the facility.

“We can’t even acknowledge whether there has been a case,” she said.

The Mitcham Residential Care Facility where the assault occurred. Picture: Tait Schmaal

The Mitcham Residential Care Facility where the assault occurred. Picture: Tait SchmaalSource:News Corp Australia

Staff arriving at the Mitcham Residential Care Facility on Tuesday declined to comment about the incident.

A private GP, who has visited the home for almost 10 years, said “it was appalling to think that that could happen to any of our elderly residents”.

“I was absolutely sickened,” she said. “No human could feel any other way.”

John Rattley, 75, from Gilberton, regularly visited his 91-year-old uncle at the facility.

He said he was first alerted to the incident involving Lucas when he received a phone call from his sister in Melbourne on Monday night.

“We didn’t know about it at all,” he said.

Mr Rattley said the revelation came as a shock because his uncle and late aunt had experienced good care over the past six years.

He commended Mr Hausler’s daughter for coming forward and said the legalisation of CCTV cameras in private rooms was “inevitable”.

“I think (Noleen) was very brave, given that it’s a law that’s been completely overlooked,” he said.

“The people here are very frail, and I think it is a wake up call for the industry - perhaps they should have video surveillance.”

John Rattley regularly visits his uncle at the Mitcham Residential Care Facility. Picture: Tait Schmaal

John Rattley regularly visits his uncle at the Mitcham Residential Care Facility. Picture: Tait SchmaalSource:News Corp Australia

Mr Rattley said the home had informed him about incidents involving his uncle, including several times he has fallen out of bed, and when he jarred his hand against a door on Monday.

“He’s happy and he’s well cared for, that’s why it was a real shock - the people are really good there ... (the incident was) just one bad egg,” he said.

The brother of another resident said the incident was “concerning for me for all the facilities every where”.

Kevin Shizabi, who delivers medication to the facility, said he was shocked to see the patient, who he recognized, assaulted.

He said, as a worker, it would be fine if he was filmed while on the property, and that the installation of private CCTV cameras in resident’s rooms should be legalized.

“I’d be for that, definitely, it would be a deterrent for carers, and even carers who go into people’s homes to make sure they don’t do anything like that,” he said.

Corey Lucas’s neighbour Alison Rogers speaks to the media. Picture: Mike Burton

Corey Lucas’s neighbour Alison Rogers speaks to the media. Picture: Mike BurtonSource:Supplied

Neighbour Alison Rodgers on Tuesday told The Advertiser that Lucas had lived in the same apartment block for two years but she had not seen him for about two weeks.

She knew he worked at an aged care facility and did not believe he was capable of harming a vulnerable person until she saw the video of his actions.

“It was pretty shocking ... I would never think he’d do something like that. He’s normally quite nice,” she said.

“It’s just really upsetting. If you see something like that happening to one of your relatives you’d be pretty upset.

“Seeing someone doing so thing like that to an elderly person.

“I don’t really know the whole story ... it looked pretty shocking.

“For someone to do that to an old person who appeared to have dementia.’

Ms Rodgers said it would be difficult to work in aged care facilities but there was no excuse for Lucas’ behaviour.

“I imagine the job is frustrating sometimes but you don’t act like that to someone who’s vulnerable and can’t defend themselves.”

Ms Rodgers said Lucas told her about a month ago that he was going to Victoria for holidays and had been away for several weeks.

Originally published as Calls grow for nursing home cameras

 

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Isaac soloman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 11:04am
Except for the fact it says care facilities, this could be a prison,youth detention etc

Ms Rodgers said it would be difficult to work in aged care facilities but there was no excuse for Lucas’ behaviour.

“I imagine the job is frustrating sometimes but you don’t act like that to someone who’s vulnerable and can’t defend themselves.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gogos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Isaac soloman Isaac soloman wrote:

Except for the fact it says care facilities, this could be a prison,youth detention etc
<p style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 19px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 14px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; word-wrap: break-word; : rgb251, 251, 253;">Ms Rodgers said it would be difficult to work in aged care facilities but there was no excuse for Lucas’ behaviour.

<p style="font-family: inherit; font-size: 19px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 14px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; word-wrap: break-word; : rgb251, 251, 253;">“I imagine the job is frustrating sometimes but you don’t act like that to someone who’s vulnerable and can’t defend themselves.”



Getting to the stage of putting cameras everywhere but old people need privacy.

Sad that familes can't look after their own.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 11:54am
Another who missed his calling..........Confused

An international martial arts champion has been accused of choking his 11-year-old stepdaughter so hard she blacked out — before he was arrested wearing a wetsuit and allegedly possessing an unlicensed starter pistol.

Graham Samuel Downey, 43, has competed and won honours at national and international wushu, or kung-fu, competitions, but until yesterday was in custody on charges relating to an alleged assault on his stepdaughter this year.

Graham Downey won silver medals in the World Traditional Wushu Championships in China in 2014. Picture: Facebook

Armadale Magistrate’s Court was told Mr Downey was in the grip of a drug-induced psychosis — brought on by a cocktail of prescription painkillers, methylamphetamine, cannabis and alcohol — when he went into his stepdaughter’s bedroom as she slept at 3am.

Police say he then placed a chokehold around the girl’s neck and under her chin, which caused her to pass out and was so rigorous it burst several blood vessels in her eyes.

Mr Downey then allegedly left the girl, before coming to his senses and trying to shake her awake.

After Mr Downey phoned his partner to tell her what he had done, police attended the Armadale address to find him dressed in a wetsuit.

He also allegedly had illicit drugs and drug paraphernalia and the starting pistol.

During a bail application yesterday, prosecutors argued the offence was extremely serious given Mr Downey’s martial arts background.

Police said there was also no guarantee the alleged drug use and violence would not happen again.


Defence lawyer Jeremy Scudds told the court Mr Downey had no history of violence and had an extremely close relationship with his stepdaughter — so close that she had even written to the court saying she forgave him. “He realises that something went wrong, and he wants to do something about it,” Mr Scudds said.

“And the fact he was arrested in a wetsuit goes to illustrate the state he was in.”

Mr Downey competed in the 2014 World Traditional Wushu Championships in China, winning two silver medals in the nanquan and double weapon disciplines.

A back injury had meant an increasing reliance on strong painkillers, the court was told.

Mr Downey wept as the allegations were aired in court and said he was concerned about the welfare of his tropical fish.

Magistrate Stephen Wilson granted Mr Downey $6000 bail with strict conditions he not contact his stepdaughter, or go within 100m of her and to report daily to police.

He will also have to have regular drug tests.

Mr Downey will appear in court again next month.

The West Australian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 1:08pm
    Unfortunately there are  terrible scenes in so many areas of life .     Some may be unavoidable , others over the top .
    Before anyone comments further on the activities at the N>T gaol ,  I suggest they view the debate on Paul Murray Live 26/7/2016.
    Included on the panel is Warren Mundine ,   a senior Aboriginal welfare & Government worker of vast experience .
 Accepted as a great man & realistic .     Together with 3 other members of the panel he dissects every area of the problems in the communities in question.
    We may have more understanding of the situation and what can be done .
  He also mentions Aurukun , another area where young Aboriginal youth ,  parade the streets with machetes ,   few  kids can be encouraged to attend school and these societies are completely broken down.
   I admire his concerns and understanding of the true picture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 3:08pm
Warren Mundine is seen as a great man? lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Warren Mundine is seen as a great man? lol.
 
 
  Respected may have been a better term but  either way if you have any reasons to disagree ,     I would be very interested to hear them .
    He doesn't condone "over the top" reactions from Officers but he   acknowledges the difficulty in managing marauding , murdering,  rapists  who are totally out of control in many communities ( mainly aboriginal ) as he states.         Some as young as 12 , some much older.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 5:01pm
I read a story/article awhile back by some expert in juvenile problems.   His take was most of these kids are coming from dysfunctional welfare dependent homes, and to break the cycle , if you want welfare you use contraceptives.   Makes sense to me, instead of breeding all these kids that have very little chance from the day they are born, with druggie mothers and hopeless fathers who are gone before the baby even is born. Remove the kids from these homes so they have a chance ( shades of stolen generations here so could never see that happening ). 
What he said made good sense to me, but I suppose that would be infringing on these dysfunctional families rights, so it will never happen.  Just be more and more kids born into drugs and abuse, with no chance of preventing it, and no chance of removing them for their own protection .
Hardly a week goes by now we dont hear of some boyfriend bashing a child to death with its mother lets him.  
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Rattlesnake Rattlesnake wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Video of Voller being stripped naked and abused by authorities when he was 11, and continued abuse at 13 and 14 and so on, and people still want to blame the kid......

Detention centers have procedures in place when an inmate threatens self harm.

One of those procedures in this case was to remove the inmate's clothing to reduce risk of self harm.

If corrections staff didn't follow procedure and the inmate managed to kill himself, you'd be the first person on here complaining about the injustice of it all because procedure wasn't followed.

There may also be culpability issues for correctional staff if they knew the inmate threatened self harm, did not remove their clothing as procedure directed, and the clothing was used by the inmate to harm themselves.

If the inmate refuses to comply with directions to remove their clothing, force obviously needs to be used. You can't wish clothing off somebody. A hashtag wouldn't help either.

When harsh reality of a violent/confrontational situation clashes with the opinions formed by people after watching a few moments of CCTV and having no understanding of the circumstances.
 
 
My god you are  a piece of work. He was 11 years old. 11. Would love to see any father take the side of the correctional staff when it was his 11 year old treated so disgracefully.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 5:25pm
And bugger off with your hashtag jibe. I am not a fan of that pointless nonsense either. You are just lacking in human decency.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 5:58pm
This will never be fixed because Government are all about saving money.......In all the wrong areas.

Its obvious really. More resources need to be used to address these Childrens issues, that is quality psychology and social working staff. These ALL cost money and Government of both persuasions refuse to invest in these areas. 

Why on earth is an 11 year old in a detention centre. Hopefully any Royal Commission will get to the bottom of that. How can an 11 be so troubles so terrible as to require jailing ?

Hopefully a Royal Commission will look beyond just the abuse but the very reason KIDS are in these situations.

I suspect ( not being an expert I can only guess ) I suspect that really there needs to be two or more different age groups if these detention centres are required. I seriously hope 11 year olds are not thrown in prison with 15 year olds and so fourth ?

There is no question these unfortunate Children come from seriously dysfunctional families. Far greater understanding and investment must be invested in these Children.

Hopefully a Royal Commission will demand greater more sophisticated training for those charged with handling these children. 

I believe Children at these ages need greater compassion and understanding than punishment.




reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rattlesnake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

And bugger off with your hashtag jibe. I am not a fan of that pointless nonsense either. You are just lacking in human decency.

Reverting to personal attacks shows your inability to reply to the points made.

I apologise that I can approach a discussion rationally.

People assess situations in different ways subastral. 

You see a 17 year old that's been hooded and is in wrist restraints and label it abuse.

I see a 17 year old that has made the decision to spit on staff and threaten self harm/violence being restrained.

Whether a troubled upbringing has lead to that point is irrelevant to the staff who have to deal with his behavior at that moment in time.

Those staff have families they would like to go home to, why should they risk catching a communicable disease or being injured by a violent, spitting inmate?

The stripping of inmate clothing after self harm threats was a specific procedure of the juvenile detention center we are discussing. This means the procedure was meant to be carried out on young offenders. Suicide attempts within juvenile detention centers do occur.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:10pm
Reverting to personal attacks, please, you do it too, just you try and hide it with snide little jibes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gogos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:


Reverting to personal attacks, please, you do it too, just you try and hide it with snide little jibes.


Are you male or female?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:13pm
Solitary for 5 days, a so called riot, 1 guy is out of prescribed area , guard say gas them all, I don't care how much chemicals you use.

Can you admit anything, is it possible some guards are desensitised, some are sadists, some commit human rights abuses and flaunt the guidelines, miscreants amongst guards should be inveatigated ?

No i am not saying all guard, or all American cops etec etc, just a small percentage of bad ones.

It is all or nothing with you guys, no flexibility of thought
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gogos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by cabosanlucas cabosanlucas wrote:

Warren Mundine is seen as a great man? lol.


He's a moth. Turns up in front of a camera, says some concerned words and picks up a cheque. Poor man's Steve Price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gogos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Solitary for 5 days, a so called riot, 1 guy is out of prescribed area , guard say gas them all, I don't care how much chemicals you use.

Can you admit anything, is it possible some guards are desensitised, some are sadists, some commit human rights abuses and flaunt the guidelines, miscreants amongst guards should be inveatigated ?

No i am not saying all guard, or all American cops etec etc, just a small percentage of bad ones.

It is all or nothing with you guys, no flexibility of thought


A certain % in those jobs are going to lose their cool. Some kidsnir adults in detention would be so difficult.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:31pm
Whilst that picture has truth about it, My simple mind asks why does the youngster keep ending up in prison. If it so bad in there why keep getting into trouble ?

This is a question I hope the Royal Commission will investigate.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:34pm
You have him pegged to a tee Sub. His claims or "rational" argument don't in the least hide his complacent arrogance wrt the less fortunate. IF as he claims part of the rules are to strip asylum seekers supposedly threatening self-harm then you have to ask who made that rule, and who permits it to continue. Appalling. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:51pm
we all scream in object anger only when these things come to light, what about all the other awful things that are going on around the place that aren't aired on the nightly TV....?? why do we always have something new to be shocked by..?? Governments will only do things when the public are up in arms about them...a never ending cycle of shock, fear, repair, find something new to be shocked by..right now they are seething on the drum, guarantee they will back on the muslim train tomorrow until another shocking event comes along...what's my point...we're all becoming desensitized to this stuff now surely..?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Rattlesnake Rattlesnake wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

Video of Voller being stripped naked and abused by authorities when he was 11, and continued abuse at 13 and 14 and so on, and people still want to blame the kid......

Detention centers have procedures in place when an inmate threatens self harm.

One of those procedures in this case was to remove the inmate's clothing to reduce risk of self harm.

If corrections staff didn't follow procedure and the inmate managed to kill himself, you'd be the first person on here complaining about the injustice of it all because procedure wasn't followed.

There may also be culpability issues for correctional staff if they knew the inmate threatened self harm, did not remove their clothing as procedure directed, and the clothing was used by the inmate to harm themselves.

If the inmate refuses to comply with directions to remove their clothing, force obviously needs to be used. You can't wish clothing off somebody. A hashtag wouldn't help either.

When harsh reality of a violent/confrontational situation clashes with the opinions formed by people after watching a few moments of CCTV and having no understanding of the circumstances.
This is a very interesting observation, and deserves comment.

The fact that this individual is NOT just another black death in custody or suicide statistic, but is in fact now, as a 19 yo adult, able to apparently articulate his remorse, is being completely overlooked ...
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cabosanlucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by Rattlesnake Rattlesnake wrote:

Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:


And bugger off with your hashtag jibe. I am not a fan of that pointless nonsense either. You are just lacking in human decency.


<span style="line-height: 16.8px;">Reverting to personal attacks shows your inability to reply to the points made.</span>

I apologise that I can approach a discussion rationally.

People assess situations in different ways subastral. 

You see a 17 year old that's been hooded and is in wrist restraints and label it abuse.

I see a 17 year old that has made the decision to spit on staff and threaten self harm/violence being restrained.

Whether a troubled upbringing has lead to that point is irrelevant to the staff who have to deal with his behavior at that moment in time.

Those staff have families they would like to go home to, why should they risk catching a communicable disease or being injured by a violent, spitting inmate?

The stripping of inmate clothing after self harm threats was a specific procedure of the juvenile detention center we are discussing. <span style="line-height: 1.4;">This means the procedure was meant to be carried out on young offenders. Suicide attempts within juvenile detention centers do occur.</span>



you make it sound like the staff were of good character and only doing what they were trained to do in the best interest of all concerned. you didnt see any evidence in that footage that suggested the staff had a brutal, thug mentality and considered the kids a piece of gelati?

if you didnt see it, just refer to a recent interview with one of the staffers. because he basically admits thats exactly how it was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

we all scream in object anger only when these things come to light, what about all the other awful things that are going on around the place that aren't aired on the nightly TV....?? why do we always have something new to be shocked by..?? Governments will only do things when the public are up in arms about them...a never ending cycle of shock, fear, repair, find something new to be shocked by..right now they are seething on the drum, guarantee they will back on the muslim train tomorrow until another shocking event comes along...what's my point...we're all becoming desensitized to this stuff now surely..?




Pardon ?






reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gogos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 8:17pm
Lots of experts in here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Go Flash Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 8:19pm

You seem to be new here Rattlesnake suggest you don't waste your time persevering "with the half baked"  unless you enjoy it of course Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gogos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

we all scream in object anger only when these things come to light, what about all the other awful things that are going on around the place that aren't aired on the nightly TV....?? why do we always have something new to be shocked by..?? Governments will only do things when the public are up in arms about them...a never ending cycle of shock, fear, repair, find something new to be shocked by..right now they are seething on the drum, guarantee they will back on the muslim train tomorrow until another shocking event comes along...what's my point...we're all becoming desensitized to this stuff now surely..?




Personally I couldnt care that much. Murders happen daily. Show videos of them and social media would go into a frenzy.

Most of the outrage is media driven.

Average person has their own family and bills to pay.

I rarely watch mainstream tv news anymore. Its selective targeted stuff designed to shock. Little substance at all.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 8:38pm
Seriously? He's simply trying to excuse/rationalise away what is clear brutality - by both an individual and a system. How that brutality comes to exist and is permitted by authorities is the real question. Invariably the answer is  - money and priorities. The measure of a society is its honesty and compassion - easy to say, a lot more difficult to uphold, especially when you're at the coalface. 

Played footy with a young bloke years ago. Wild young guy who liked a beer and was as hard as nails on the field. I'd never have guessed but turns out he had a heart of gold. Saw some scratches and scars on his hands and arms one day at training and enquired about them. Turns out he was employed as a wardsman in a mental illness institution where getting attacked was an occasional job hazard. He shrugged it off because as he said, 'it's not their fault'. Understanding and at least some compassion goes a long way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 8:42pm
In response to Doc, although I see now Caso has also seen thru the Rattlers facade of "rationality"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2016 at 9:14pm
Dylan Voller is a repeat offender ,     Has spent more time in,  than out of gaol in recent years.
  Officers have been charged and acquitted in the past of abusing him by rough handling .
That hasn't stopped him from actually being interned in an adult gaol NOW for further crime .
( For an ice-fuelled gangland-style robbery and attempting to run over cops,)    Nice Boy aye .
 
  Anyone volunteering to adopt him .   Please queue up.
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