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Matt Cumani |
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Beliskner
Champion Joined: 10 Apr 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4236 |
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Posted: 08 May 2016 at 1:42am |
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Training out of Ballarat, only had 8 starts so far with his first winner Friday at Bendigo, with OTR giving him two horses, a new import [Our Covenanat] and a former one [Lunayir].
I assume his related to Luca Cumani? Interesting with him and Archie Alexander out here, i wonder if we will see any other younger guys coming over from Europe to school the local guys in how to train stayers? |
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41243 |
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Luca ,s son.
AND, Francesca,s brother !!
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animals before people.
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Speediskey
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
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Not like Archie Alexander is exactly schooling the locals so far.
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Beliskner
Champion Joined: 10 Apr 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4236 |
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Maybe i'm giving them a little credit in advance, but given how most of our trainers can't develop stayers, these two don't have to do a whole lot to surpass most locals, and also it's not like their getting premium yearlings or imports.
OTR could change that very quickly, however. |
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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We don't have the same training facilities to develop stayers on the track as Europe does!
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to the victor
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BlackKnight
Champion Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3096 |
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We do, which is why Cumani is training at Ballarat with its mile (?) uphill run
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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That's one track out of how many crappy ones? Owners also want quick returns and the programming is not suited to progressing stayers through the grades - saying a couple of European silver spoon kids are going to show locals how it's done is insulting!
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to the victor
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51818 |
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Bart didn't do a bad job on Oz training tracks nor does Waller seem to be struggling too much
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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marscay
Champion Joined: 20 May 2011 Status: Offline Points: 5342 |
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This is the problem right here, it's not with our trainers. |
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Speediskey
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
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Archie Alexander has had OTI horses since he started here, done nothing with them. I'd say he's getting pretty nice horses considering he hasn't done anything.
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tillyras
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7540 |
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Archie won a listed race early days I think. Sandown Cup maybe
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51818 |
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Reportedly hard on them in training.
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7452 |
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Without a shadow of a doubt you're correct there as well, it's all slipper slipper will go early charade.
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to the victor
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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Appreciate your response Linghi,yes and they all want it yesterday the days of a trainer saying to an old cocky , "Bought you a nice Colt mate ,may need a bit of time" Cocky "yeah, send him up , I'll get him broken in and nut him and give him 6months up here" .no mention of training fees because the pressure was not there ,the romance is drifting out of racing lack of foresight and patience Regards
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25066 |
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The breeders breed for the sale ring (don't agree with the practice but they are in the business to make money) and as the buyers want fast maturing types that is what you get. Otherwise Australian breeders would all go broke and we'd import everything from overseas.
That would be a bad error as we do breed good horses. Speed isn't bad - every horse be it sprinter or stayer need that. There are still plenty of studs standing staying breed horses or Derby winners or Cup winners. But are they selling - not really. So the vast majority of bigger studs keep mostly sprinting types maybe a miler of two and one stayer as a also ran. Not the stayers fault, just the way the modern market is. Get the stayers from overseas as older horses and you can run straight away (or usually the next year to get them aclimatized). With a yearly you have to wait at least two years and probably more before you get any runs on the board.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25066 |
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That should read yearling!
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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I don't mind speed either Furious,There is no greater admirer of Star Kingdom than me .,and I rode enough of them,but when l have a piece of steak I like to have something with it .We were importing a lot of our stallions from o/s up to 1965,and I don't know of studs going broke then .Getting stayers from o/s that's OK as long as you don't get your fingers burnt.,aka LW and others.I was only responding to this thread to defend previous posts that OZ trainers could not train stayers .I wish blokes like George Hanlon were here to knock that theory into a cocked hat.
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Gai won a Melbourne Cup ... it's definitely not about how they are trained.
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Atreus
Champion Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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Australian racing is all about sprinting. Sydney races often have only 1 staying race per meeting. Melbourne might have 2 staying races per meeting. If most of your races are sprints then of course most of your horses will be sprinters
UK & Irish racing is quite different. They seem more into jumps racing than flat racing for starters. They have thousands of jumps races over very long distances each season. So of course they will have a breed more suited to longer races I doubt it has much to do with the trainers but is more to do with the different nature of the racing |
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Beliskner
Champion Joined: 10 Apr 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4236 |
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I know 2yo racing isn't the best example, but i can think of only literally one 2yo race over 1600m here, it's an 1800m race in Sydney near the end of the season, where in UK they have plenty 2yo races over 1600m, and i think Japan have a 2yo black type race over 2200m.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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Fern hill hcp Champagne stk. both at Randwick. Gibson Carmicheal Flemington. JJ Atkins Brisbane. All 1600 for 2yo
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Beliskner
Champion Joined: 10 Apr 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4236 |
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I'm talking over 1600m.
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Morston
Champion Joined: 01 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 704 |
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1600 m is not a staying race....nor is anything up to 2400m....they are considered middle distance races in Europe.
Staying races start at 2800 m which is the distance of the UK St. Leger (mile and 6 furlongs) |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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who said anything about 1600 mt being staying races .In 70 's Japan spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the best staying blood in the world and therein lie's the tale why they can run a2yo over that ,distance .As for a mile and half not being a staying distance. Well you say tomato and I say tomayto Regards
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45319 |
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A 2400m race is considered a staying event in every major racing country in the world.
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21698 |
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thanks for the backup Second Chance
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jacko1
Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1801 |
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I heard recently a UK commentator visiting noting how foreign the concept of syndicates was to him because in the UK it is mostly just one owner. I think the flood of syndicators in the last decade or two has meant a big market for speed horses they can get to the races a.s.a.p. I find the people who own them by themselves are more interested in the long term, taking it slow and getting results down the road.
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Beliskner
Champion Joined: 10 Apr 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4236 |
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Single owners are more common then out here, they are generally pretty wealthy [obviously] but plenty of people race in groups, i know a number of UK based persons who do.
We have people like Harvey who is tied into that many horses it's ridiculous, some he owns outright but some he has 5% or 10%. We just don't have our really rich people heavily involved, it's a little before my time, but from what i understand Packer didn't just buy up a whole bunch of horses, even though he could've brought every horse in Australia if he had wanted too. Then you had Tinkler, who had may hundred by then time he got his stallions going, he had a ton of mares solely going to his stallions. Give me 100 million and i'd be happy to step up and take his place, without the going broke part. |
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Sworn Revenge
Champion Joined: 24 Jul 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1210 |
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To be fair to Morston having lived in the UK for 25 years their racing community believe staying races commence at the St Leger distance and upwards |
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