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Australia's Whip Rules |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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How about a new rule, if you don't hit them as many times as Olivier Placais you're outed for failing to give your mount every possible chance
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Online Points: 21701 |
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Couple of pearlers here quote=. the use of the whip on 2 yo to make him go faster is totally irrelevant. end of.
Luca Cumani " having no whip is like a plumber going to work without a spanner" how true! I used a similar phrase a few months back " like a carpenter going to work without a hammer" , got laughted at by a respected poster, ( wot me worry) lol, my take on this, it will never be completely banned, down the shoulder and a back handed manner behind the saddle is what I see,until these jocks stop riding with just their toe in the irons hands and heel riding will never be, except for R Thompson H Bowman and one or two others, any how who wants to listen I'll shut up. |
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RED HUNTER
Champion Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: PERTH Status: Offline Points: 16334 |
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You know you're on a real goer when Thompson's legs are windmilling and the whip is enforced with the right hand. PURE JOY.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Online Points: 21701 |
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Dummy's, yes!
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41248 |
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See the idiot,s girlfriend got done for excessive whip use , the same day he has a brain fade and makes headlines ?
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animals before people.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Online Points: 51823 |
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Nikita had a winner at W/bool yesterday, I love this post from her
Nikita Beriman The best ever!!! My beautiful girl. I had to go and massage her bum and beg her to forgive me for smacking her. ❤❤❤❤ so proud of her. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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troppo75
Champion Joined: 10 Jun 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1438 |
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Can we have a brexit for the jockey whip change rule ideas? Those to vote in, those to vote out?
I think there would be a majority for keeping the whip.. despite a bunch of trainers publicly saying they want it gone. It's typical that the masses will say what they think is politically correct to say so they don't cop gelati Put it to a private ballot and see what floats
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Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Interesting. What "bunch of trainers" are you quoting? Ignoring the fact that "the masses" often get things wrong, it seems to me you're verballing them (whoever they may be) also.
Steve Moran was obviously looking for some relevance when he wrote his opinion for Racenet. There was nothing new in his comments, nor anything particularly insightful.
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troppo75
Champion Joined: 10 Jun 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1438 |
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Articles I've read on this topic have a swayed majority vote toward banning... the one guy (from UK) who mentions keeping the whip is totally apologetic and prefaces his opinion by saying.. 'i know people wont like my side of it' we are continually having to apologize to others for what we feel.. even if it's not without some merit / reasoning. Should a jockey be penalized for using a whip to win a race or maintain a horse going straight? This is what the world is coming to. To try to bring in a NEW rule.. not to allow a backhand on a 2yo? How many rules do we need? Whoever brings up these debates is only pandering to the left. Soon enough the sport will be debated if we ban racing all together. |
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Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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I'd suggest that one article which canvases a handful of opinions is hardly reflective of the views of trainers, jockeys, owners, punters or officials in this country. There is no uniformity of opinion among any of those groups from my reading. If anything there seems to be a solid push among the hoi polloi against any further changes to whip rules.
As with Dutton's hysterical opinion that Xmas has been taken over by politically correct (leftie) school teachers it pays to take little notice of dressmakers with agendas and journalists needing to fill column inches.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Sorry, overlooked these little gems. So you're suggesting that articles written by racing columnists are a conspiracy of the left? You're obviously from the Dutton school of hyperbolic misinformation.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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It's pure virtue signalling. |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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I doubt you'll ever have to have the discussion. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Your cynicism is on the same line of betting as his leftie conspiracy theory.
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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How many strikes are you allowed past the post?
Kate Walters got at least four in on Brigadier in R5 at Ballarat.
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31302 |
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Stakes winner whipped 27 times but no protest by stewards or jockey Ben Dorries 29/4/17 Brooker was suspended for seven days and fined $2000 after stewards charged her with whipping Group III Gunsynd Classic winner Dreams Aplenty 17 times before the 100m. Jockey Larry Cassidy, who rode runner-up Violate which went down by a nose, admitted he should have fired in a whip rule protest. Stewards also elected not to lodge an objection on behalf of the second placegetter. Brooker, who scored her first Stakes win, was asked by Reardon whether she had forgotten about the whip rule. "Yes. I got caught up in the moment," Brooker replied. "I don't have a valid excuse." Brooker, who pleaded guilty, was told by Reardon her whip use was "way over the top" and she had struck Dreams Aplenty 27 times in total. "I way, way over-hit it," Brooker said. |
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Sir Gov
Champion Joined: 17 May 2016 Status: Offline Points: 2278 |
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Rules are a farce.
Lack of enforcement is going to result in it banned altogether
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Brooker is a weak whip rider though, even though she used the whip so many times she did not give the horse a beating, they were flicks.
A strong rider like Jim Doyle could ride within the whip rules and the horse would feel it more.
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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ATT: Beirne has answer to whip-use uproarBRAD DAVIDSON, The Sunday Telegraph FORM guru Punters and owners are becoming fed up losing races when the winning jockey breaks the whip rule. Beirne has come up with a proposal to tackle the issue should overuse of the whip be used in a protest hearing. The formula is: 0.1 *X/A. ‘X’ being the number of illegal whips and ‘A’ being an apprentice’s allowance (if applicable). For example: if a senior jockey riding the winner hits the horse six times with the whip before the 100m mark (one more than allowed), it would be 0.1 x 1 = 0.1 lengths. Therefore, if the margin to the second horse was less than 0.1 lengths and a protest was lodged, it should be upheld and the second horse declared the winner. Another example: if a 3kg-claiming apprentice hits the winner 11 times before the 100m (six more than allowed), then it would be 0.1 x 6 divided by 3 = 0.2 lengths. If the margin was less than 0.2 of a length, the second horse should win the race on protest, if lodged. “In the Australian Rules of Racing, there are many rules quantified by numerical limits. The formula aims to assist stewards to apply this rule with reduced controversy,” Beirne told At The Track. “My formula was created in a blink, but in thinking about it in the past week, I struggle to improve it. By altering the coefficient 0.1, the rule maker can make the protest more or less able to be upheld. The A divisor provides for the weaker whip strength of a claimable apprentice. The A may be governed further by gender and age.” |
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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The age of instant gratification has a new member - pseudo analysis and arithmetic "in a blink".
Does he have a formula for calculating the time allowed for connections and stewards to review every race prior to correct weight?
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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As he himself will admit, that is a different side of the debate.
Once a protest has been lodged their should be a formula for working out when a race will be taken away from an offender. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45320 |
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There is now Djebel, flawed as it is and rarely enforced.
About 9 months ago one of our got done by a small margin and the jockey said we would've won had he been allowed use more vigour prior to the 100m mark. Kept my counsel but was thinking why the hell didn't he give the gelding the extra couple around the turn when the horse invariably had a flat spot. As for Dom's suggestion, I'm with 3BM.
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RED HUNTER
Champion Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: PERTH Status: Offline Points: 16334 |
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The day a winner is disqualified,under a whip rule indiscretion,is the day many will walk away.
One jockey that has a likeness for yanking would love this. Your market stolen? Easy to fix. A huge payout? Action afoot. |
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RED HUNTER
Champion Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: PERTH Status: Offline Points: 16334 |
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Dominic should keep his ALGEBRA away from the punt.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Nobody would walk away. People may threaten to walk away but it would be no more than bluffing. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Most corps pay out on protests anyway. Pity the poor TAB punters and owners of horses whose riders observe the rules.
A formula suggests there is a method and quantifiable relationships involved. To get anything like a real formula would require thousands of case studies of horse speed variation - ie was there evidence that a horse ran faster under the whip prior to the 100m mark. Even then not all horses react the same way to the whip. Some horses undoubtedly give more, some I suspect just take the whip as a reminder to keep going as best they can. |
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Sneck
Champion Joined: 16 Feb 2013 Location: Payout Queue Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Piss of Beirne you spaz.
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RED HUNTER
Champion Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: PERTH Status: Offline Points: 16334 |
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Wouldn't it be wonderful if a horse of the ilk of WINX ,should it ever be hit way too many times, be disqualified through a whip rule.
Also can't wait for a horse like WINX,at almost unbackable odds, weighs light in a MAJOR RACE. See what happens in either scenario. ******************************************************************* Result...the whip would have to be banned to protect punters and restore confidence and weighing light.....if you can not win you should never be allowed to lose.....a review of the disqualification rule here. |
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