Go to Villagebet.com.au for free horse racing tips - Click here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Community - Public Forums > General
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Drought Proofing Australia ! Really ?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.


Drought Proofing Australia ! Really ?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Afros View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 15302
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2019 at 3:04pm
I think as a nation there is to much of a 'give us mote water' rather than 'how can we uae water more efficiently?' Attitude from farmers.

Every time I see a big water winch or centre pivot going on a hot, dry day I shake my head.
Back to Top
Kimberley Mine View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 1517
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimberley Mine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 7:24am
This: 

Originally posted by Sister Dot Sister Dot wrote:

BUT does anyone agree that there are huge tracts of Australia, which in main is essentially a desert, being farmed when in fact it’s not really at all suitable?

and this:

Quote I think as a nation there is to much of a 'give us mote water' rather than 'how can we use water more efficiently?' Attitude from farmers.

Every time I see a big water winch or centre pivot going on a hot, dry day I shake my head.

Leaving aside government policy for a minute -- the first quote is stone cold true and the reason why is related to the rotation of the earth itself.  What goes up must come down: warm, moist air that upwells in Equatorial areas dries out in the upper atmosphere and sinks around 25 - 35 degrees latitude (it's called a Hadley cell and this is true in both northern and southern hemispheres).  No amount of water policy or management or mismanagement or whatever will change this simple fact.  And no amount of policy will change the fact that if water scarcity is the rule, not the exception, it's a futile quest to try to permanently green the desert enough for modern agriculture.

Now add in climate change.  As climate change goes on, the southern limit of the Hadley cell will progress further and further poleward.  In North America, this is a major reason for wildfires in California getting worse and extending further into the autumn.  In South Africa, this is a major reason the Cape went 5 years without enough rain.  In Australia, it will make the central deserts and semi-deserts hotter and drier.  Again, this is atmospheric physics and short of major international intervention to limit the effects of climate change, no amount of policy or management will change this.

With that in mind...

You may already have heard of "managed retreat" from the coasts as a way to adapt to life in the climate change era.  It usually refers to people leaving areas that will become or already have become inundated due to rising sea levels.  Well, with hotter temperatures and no drinking water, it's time to consider managed retreat from the more arid parts of Australia, too.  That includes farming and agriculture and any kind of mining that uses a lot of water.
Back to Top
Sister Dot View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 4878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 9:48am
Wise words, which will no doubt fall on deaf ears. Human beings for some reason, tend to totally ignore the obvious?
“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 11:48am

I've had some time to reflect on the 100GL water release announced by David Littleproud yesterday. The more I think about it, the more insulted I feel.

The size of the release, the timing, the fact that farmers have to pay for it instead of being allocated it in the water rights they already paid for... Everything about it is off.

This is a release aimed at relieving the political pressure, not at relieving the hardship of farmers on the NSW Murray.

Now I think Littleproud genuinely believe's he's doing his best... that this is a win! That we should all suddenly be thanking him. I believe he's clueless, and is serving the interests of his party over the interests of water users, and GENUINELY thinks we're being ungrateful and don't understand how complicated it all is.

But in truth HE is the one who is ignorant, ungrateful for the position of privilege he's been given, and careless with the power he wields over the people he's supposed to serve.

Consider: Only a month or so ago the LNP didn't support a motion in the Senate for a 200GL release from environmental water. LNP Senators either no-showed or voted against.

All of a sudden, a month later when it's too late and all the crops are dead, he's come out with this 100GL release.

Now his excuse will be that it's taken this long to negotiate with the SA government for them to turn on their desalination plant to supply Adelaide with 100GL of water, so that they can take less water out of the Murray, freeing up the 100GL to NSW Murray irrigators.

But in a year where over 1,800GL of water has flowed over Lock 1 into Lake Alexandrina (during an 'unprecedented drought', may I remind you! A time when natural flows would have been VERY low were it not for our dams and weirs) it's absurd to imply that they couldn't have used some of that water for farmers.

Littleproud (And Sussan Ley for that matter) hide behind the legislation, they say they can't re-allocate water or take water from the environment and give it to farmers because the legislation doesn't allow for that.

I say that's a cop out, a deflection from the fact that they're not really trying.

Think about it, if they REALLY wanted to help, but couldn't because of the legislation, then they would be proposing AMENDMENTS TO THE LEGISLATION!

Where are the amendments? Where are their efforts to get the rules changed so they AN do what they say they want to do...?

Actions speak louder than words, and the fact that neither Littleproud, nor Ley, nor the Morrison Government has made ANY attempt to change the rules so that water can be better allocated tells you that they're not actually trying. Add the fact that they FAILED to support legislation proposed by One Nation for a 200GL emergency allocation, and you can see clear-as-day what's going on here.

This 100GL is a political convenience. A shiny distraction from their incompetence, mismanagement, delay, and failure.

At best it's a bandaid on a bullet wound, applied when the victim has almost bled to death already. It might make the person applying the bandaid feel better, but it sure isn't going to help the victim.

The Water Act of 2007 must be repealed, the MDBA must be abolished, the CEWH must sell all its water back to growers, and trading and carryover rules must be adjusted so that speculators can no longer game the system.

Nothing less will do, and 100GL isn't going to distract us from this goal.

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 4:49pm
I watched this limp waisted flog on the 7-30 report last night and must admit I felt like throwing the remote through the TV, danced around every question like a well trained parrot, another dud in this Morrison government imo, I see the Libs had a nice sendoff for the " resident nutter" for 25 years of service last night , A. Jones the M.C. this goose Abbott was the one who separated the land/water allocation entitlements in 2014 to make them separate entities allowing the Corps. to buy up all the water like ASX shares, was 600 a gig. 2 months ago , I'll bet it's a lot higher now , Libs can't get me again .
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 4:50pm
Limp wristed . bloody hell.
Back to Top
acacia alba View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Hunter Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 41243
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2019 at 9:17pm
Just an aside.  All National Parks and campgrounds are closed until further notice due to the fires. ( In NSW anyway). So the local man who picks up the bins and rubbish goes out today, and in one camp ground there are 3 groups all set up camp with,,wait for it !  Campfires going.  All from the city.  ( We know this because the local copper went out there and chatted and hunted them ). And all abused him ( the garbo man that is )  and told him to F off and mind his own buisness.
And people wonder why country people get sh*tty with city folks. 
animals before people.
Back to Top
Sister Dot View Drop Down
Premium
Premium
Avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 4878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 8:58am
Brain dead, and rude with it 😡 can’t let catastrophic conditions ruin a planned camping trip
“Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? Here where grace is laced with muscle and strength by gentleness confined”
Back to Top
Shrunk in the Wash View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 9890
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 10:33am
I read the other day that 60% of the water that feeds into Warragamba dam comes from the Cox’s river system that starts at lake Wallace between Lithgow & Bathurst

They are in drought. Why is Sydney taking their water when it can be use west of the great divide?
Back to Top
acacia alba View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Hunter Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 41243
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 11:30am
Same here when there was talk of taking all this goood farming country for a new dam.  It was all to be piped to the central coast for the new housing estates. Angry
animals before people.
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 1:00pm
Disclaimer - I haven't googled for factual info Wink

You need to read this, & educate yourself about what is happening. Australia is burning because the rich “fat cats” (yes including Scomo) have allowed our country to be coated with fire agents from above. Ask yourself why wetlands are burning, both here & overseas? Do some research, we need to fight this, or die.

From A Friend ...
Wow, so our place sits right on the bush in Sydney. I started wondering whether I can somehow hose away or otherwise remove all the chemtrail residue around the place in preparation for the catastrophic fire that will hit Sydney tomorrow (amazing prediction isn't it).

THIS IS DISTURBING
I found that aluminium dust fires should not be put out with water:

"A water stream should not be used, since its impact on the fire may cause the formation of an explosive aluminum dust cloud. In addition, water will react with the aluminum fines to form flammable hydrogen gas.

Qualified supervisory personnel should decide in advance whether it is better to attempt to fight the fire or to withdraw to a safe location and allow it to bum itself out.
Professional or volunteer fire fighters from outside the plant cannot be expected to be trained for the specific fire and live safety hazards associated with combustible dust fires. In the interest of their own safety, fire fighters should be directed by the plant’s safety or fire fighting officer."

It also says:

"When aluminum fines are involved in a fire, only Class D extinguishing agents should be used. The dry powder discharged from some portable extinguishers does so under some pressure and could create an aluminum dust cloud. Therefore, it is important to try to direct the stream of powder above the fire and allow the powder to settle
by gravity onto the burning material."

See https://www.aluminum.org/…/Safe%20Handling%20of%20Aluminum%…

So the poor firies are using water to try and put out these fires fuelled with aluminium and barium, only to be setting them off - most of them probably oblivious to what they are dealing with.

This really is the most heinous evil thing they are doing. People need to really wake up.

I am still looking to find out if there is any way we can remove the aluminium/barium residue - if anyone has any suggestions let me know. I've read one thing that they spray people with lemon/lime water and soap to remove aluminium dust.

Untill weather modification & aerial chemical warfare is discontinued, the status quo will remain Ouch

15mins


Agenda 21 is rolling out.

Quite revealing when you google it Lamp



Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Just an aside.  All National Parks and campgrounds are closed until further notice due to the fires. ( In NSW anyway). So the local man who picks up the bins and rubbish goes out today, and in one camp ground there are 3 groups all set up camp with,,wait for it !  Campfires going.  All from the city.  ( We know this because the local copper went out there and chatted and hunted them ). And all abused him ( the garbo man that is )  and told him to F off and mind his own buisness.
And people wonder why country people get sh*tty with city folks. 


The copper should've charged the lot of them! Total fire ban and Parks & Camping grounds closed Angry Angry Angry With their attitude I amagine they'll just set up elsewhere Angry
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
acacia alba View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Location: Hunter Valley
Status: Offline
Points: 41243
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 4:37pm
Not sure exactly what the outcome was but I reckon they would be in trouble .  Our local bloke dont cop no s***.   Fines prolly.
animals before people.
Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Offline
Points: 79533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 7:32pm
Gay, plenty of discussion on the content of that video in the Morrison govt thread over several months.

QandA a couple of weeks ago covered this with Kate McBride who has become the face of the Murray Darling crisis featured on it, along with water minister Littleproud whose family were being prosecuted for stealing water.
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 8:00pm
I saw that one & was most disappointed in the entire show bar the young, confident lass. Little came out of it & the fireworks I expected didn't come to fruition Disapprove
I just discovered today that flows are determined by 'average' rainfall instead of 'projected'! No wonder there's a shortage & likely too, next year with similar 'projections' for the entire Angry

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Offline
Points: 79533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 8:06pm
There are some independent news organisations pursuing it. This is a couple referring to the $80m rort. You might also research the links between water shortage, Barnaby Joyce, Gina Reinhardt, the number of cattle properties she is buying up in the M-D region, particularly Barnaby's seat. 



Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Offline
Points: 79533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 8:07pm
Or your friend might like to.
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 8:21pm
Thanks for those links PT Thumbs Up

Aluminum Dust from Geoengineering Fueling Super Wildfires According to Author


LOS ANGELES, Sept. 6, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- While researching for his new novel, author Denis Mills discovered an alarming link between chemtrails and the super wildfires. 

The author discovered that unprecedented levels of aluminum and barium nanodust, primary components in chemtrails, both of which are incendiary, are fueling the ferocity of the super wildfires.



A retired USAF brigadier general, Gen. Charles Jones, has been quoted from a public source as stating, "These white aircraft spray trails are the result of scientifically verifiable spraying of aluminum particles and other toxic heavy metals, polymers and chemicals." 

"Millions of tons of aluminum and barium are being sprayed almost daily across the U.S., stated Mills, a former naval officer and UCLA graduate. "Just sprinkle aluminum or barium dust on a fire and see what happens.  It's near explosive.  When wildfires break out, the aluminum/barium dust results in levels of fire intensity so great as to cause firefighters to coin a new term  ̶ 'firenados,' "  he said. The entire U.S., in addition to various other NATO countries, are being sprayed."

The government has for years denied the existence of chemtrail spraying.  It now calls the program by various names, all under Geoengineering.

According to Cal Fire operation chief Steve Crawford, the fires are burning differently and more aggressively.  It has been reported the fires move faster than anyone has ever seen and barriers that in years past contained them such as rivers, no longer do. 

In California's Mt. Shasta region, Francis Mangel, a USDA biologist tested and found elevated levels of aluminum in water and soil samples of 4,610 parts per million which is 25,000 times the safe guidelines of the World Health Organization. 

Some have claimed Mr. Mills is publicity-seeking for his teen and young adult fiction adventure series, Matt Legend, about four teens who encounter and battle the supernatural and all kinds of strange things, including the forces behind the chemtrails.  The adventure thriller is being called the new Harry Potter.  Mr. Mills states the research speaks for itself and the novel is only what led to the discovery.  "Authors are known for researching things to death," he stated. No one can argue, however, the wildfires' newfound ferocity or the millions of tons of aluminum/barium nanodust which have appeared, which is killing vegetation and causing illness and death.  

"Matt Legend: Veil of Lies" on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Matt-Legend-Veil-Denis-Mills-ebook/dp/B07FVKD62N/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1536166550&sr=8-1&keywords=matt+legend

Contact:  Denis Mills
(310) 359-8722
201127@email4pr.com

SOURCE Denis Mills


Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Offline
Points: 79533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 8:40pm
Back to Top
oneonesit View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 36892
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Gay, plenty of discussion on the content of that video in the Morrison govt thread over several months.

QandA a couple of weeks ago covered this with Kate McBride who has become the face of the Murray Darling crisis featured on it, along with water minister Littleproud whose family were being prosecuted for stealing water.
She will be either an ALP or Green pin up girl in the near future. Wont take long before she gets tainted.
Refer ALP Election Promises
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2019 at 4:26pm
Bloody hell, what hope have firies got? Angry



AV: Yep here comes a new onslaught. The Southerly flow here is created with bunker fuel which then means all of these chemicals head North into NSW, and dry the upper atmosphere.




Geoff Flack All the same air liner🤔

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2019 at 9:54am
ML -  How do you think they created the Qld/NSW drought?

AV - Massive ionisation of the atmosphere using Chemtrails, then HAARP, and then more local effects like the doppler radars and the plasma grid they have created with the cell towers.

ML - ahhhhh I knew our government was responsible for this forced drought

AV - more likely above government, but they know and are not doing anything about it
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Miners Rest
Status: Offline
Points: 51818
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 7:09pm

Chinese state-owned company buys up water in the Murray-Darling

Paul Farrell and Alex McDonald

Chinese state-owned enterprises have acquired water entitlements in Australia and some foreign water investors face limited scrutiny by the Foreign Investment Review Board.

Key points:

  • There are concerns about the level of oversight of foreign investment in water assets in Australia
  • Private foreign investors buying into Australian water are largely exempt from restrictions put in place during the coronavirus pandemic
  • Mick Keelty says foreign investment in water needs greater scrutiny

Water ownership in Australia is an increasingly lucrative investment for both domestic and overseas buyers. The reduction of water available in key river systems has seen the price of water steadily rise.

Water has been a tradable commodity since water rights were "unbundled" from agriculture and property interests. Since 2014, restrictions on trading water allocations were also relaxed in the Murray-Darling Basin.

Despite water's essential value, there are increasing concerns about the amount of oversight of water markets compared to financial or property markets.

"It is a commodity and yet it doesn't have the same governance and due diligence around it as other commodities like gold or minerals, and I think that's what's of concern to people," Mick Keelty, former Australian Federal Police commissioner and now the interim inspector general of Murray-Darling Basin Water Resources, told 7.30.

7.30 has been investigating how water entitlements held by foreign investors are regulated in Australia and has identified at least two Chinese state-owned enterprises that own water entitlements.

Unibale Pty Ltd is listed as an Australian subsidiary of the state-owned COFCO Corporation, one of China's major agriculture companies.

Unibale Pty Ltd owns more than 7,000 megalitres of water entitlements in the Gwydir River system in the northern end of the Murry-Darling Basin in New South Wales.

The conduct of another COFCO subsidiary, Chinatex Australia, has been criticised in Federal Parliament over its failure to pay a sizeable Federal Court order to compensate a local beef provider.

COFCO and Unibale Pty Ltd did not respond to questions from 7.30.

Private foreign investors not subject to oversight

7.30 can also reveal that private foreign investors buying into Australia's water markets are largely exempt from investment restrictions put in place to prevent a fire sale takeover of Australian assets during the coronavirus pandemic.

Duncan Bedford, a partner at law firm McCullough Robertson, told 7.30 that water purchases by private foreign investors will generally not be scrutinised by the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB).

That is despite new restrictions being imposed by Treasurer Josh Frydenberg that require the FIRB to review essentially all foreign purchases in Australia for assets such as land and real estate.

The restrictions were announced due to concerns that large foreign investors would try to capitalise on the economic uncertainty created by the COVID-19 pandemic.

While the measures imposed by the Government effectively apply to all land purchases, Mr Bedford says water assets largely fall outside the review board's oversight, with the exception of direct purchases by foreign governments.

"FIRB approval may be required for the acquisition of water assets when it forms part of a broader business acquisition. But on their own, water entitlements do not require FIRB approval."

Treasurer Josh Frydenberg told 7.30 in a statement: "The foreign investment review framework balances the need to ensure Australia remains an attractive destination for foreign investment while also ensuring individual foreign investments are not contrary to the national interest.

"The Government also recognises the importance of transparency around foreign ownership of agricultural land and water. For this reason, the Government introduced public registers covering foreign investment into these asset classes."

Concerns about the acquisition of water assets by foreign investors are primarily around the level of oversight.

"I think the more we treat it the same as other high-value commodities in the market, the less concerned the community will be about it."

Foreign investment register 'an honour system'

The most significant attempt to gain a greater understanding of foreign ownership of water was made in 2017, when the Federal Government passed new laws creating a foreign ownership register.

The register, which is managed by the Australian Tax Office, is a self-reporting regime where entities that own water are required to declare their interests.

The 2018 report shows that across each state and territory, about 10 per cent of all water assets are held by foreign entities. The largest investors are from the United States and China, followed by the United Kingdom.

But the register itself is not public, so there is no information about individual owners or even the water holdings of state-owned enterprises.

There has also been limited enforcement by the ATO to ensure that all foreign water owners have registered their interests.

"As I say in the report that I delivered to the Government towards the end of last year, there is no compliance action taken by the Australian Tax Office," Mr Keelty said.

Farmers Federation chief executive Tony Maher also said the register currently does not offer enough information about the extent of foreign investment.

"It's out of date and there isn't enough detail about who owns what water and what they're doing with it," he said.

A spokeswoman for the ATO said the agency has had "limited opportunities" for compliance activity since the register was established.

She added that it was unable to publish more detailed information about foreign investments.

"There are no exceptions allowing protected information to be disclosed publicly," she said.

"We have worked to establish the register and produce the first report and there has been limited opportunity for compliance action. To date, no penalties have been issued."

Water management a fraught issue

Each state and territory administers its own water register, but there are complex overlaps between different levels of government and even between government agencies.

Issues like foreign ownership would generally be considered a matter for the federal government.

In NSW, more than 38,000 water licences have been issued but individual ownership is difficult to determine. The register itself is not freely accessible and a fee must be paid for every search.

In order to conduct a search for the owners of water licences currently issued in NSW, it would cost approximately $558,600 to search the entire register.

A spokeswoman for NSW Water Minister Melinda Pavey said: "The NSW Government is already working to improve the transparency of trades in NSW by publishing an online trade dashboard that provides allocation and entitlement trade volumes and a weighted average price.

"The extent of domestic and foreign ownership in the Murray-Darling Basin water market is currently the subject of an extensive review being conducted by both the ACCC [Australian Competition and Consumer Commission] and the MDBA [Murray–Darling Basin Authority]. We look forward to both reports being finalised and made public."

A spokesman for Water NSW told 7.30 it processed water licence applications in strict accordance with Government regulations, including whether an applicant had a legal entitlement to hold a licence.

"The public water register is administered on behalf of the NSW Government by the office of NSW Land Registry Services," he said.

"With respect to the public availability of customer information, Water NSW operates within the legislative framework as required, and otherwise seeks to balance transparency with the right to privacy."

'There needs to be more transparency'

The ownership and trading of water is a divisive issue within many communities.

"There is a segment of the community who says, 'why should people own water who don't have any interest in agriculture?'" Mr Keelty said.

"Equally, there's a section of the community that says, 'well, the Government made this decision that gave us some options to trade in water and we have actually invested in that trade'."

The ACCC is currently undertaking a major report into water trading markets in the Murray-Darling Basin.

A spokeswoman for the Murray-Darling Basin Authority said that water markets and licences are the responsibility of each state government.

"The MDBA supports greater transparency in the water market in order to build public confidence, which is essential," she said.

"MDBA's main task is to ensure that water extraction in the Basin is sustainable and that compliance by the states is robust. Both the ACCC and MDBA have a role in regulating water markets, but this doesn't extend to the ownership of water."

Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 21698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 11:01pm
I hope the ABC chase this down every burrow that's been dug although I feel it will go nowhere as some pollys and families are in the frame, like the Darwin Port fiasco it will go away imo.
Back to Top
maccamax View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 41473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 11:33pm
They can put men on the moon and run oil pipes halfway round the world .

Australia can't pipe the abundance of water from North to South.
Back to Top
max manewer View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 32947
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 11:45pm
Well, with the CFMEU around, no such project would be viable.
Back to Top
Isaac soloman View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 6085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2020 at 12:16am
this man has his finger in many pies, mostly to favour the chinese.

Andrew 'Twiggy' Forrest calls for harvesting of rivers, underground aquifers to droughtproof agricultural areas

Back to Top
Passing Through View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Location: At home
Status: Offline
Points: 79533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2020 at 10:10am
Allow the Chinese to channel water from Nth Queensland in exchange for what they need for their own use. They will get it done in a fortnight.
Back to Top
max manewer View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 32947
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote max manewer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2020 at 11:15am
The Chinese would indeed be able to accomplish such a scheme, but not if the CFMEU were involved, they have one man working while another two are designated to watch his progress. "feather-bedding" they call it.
Back to Top
maccamax View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 41473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2020 at 2:36pm
UNIONS are the biggest danger to Australian progress.

I have known them to fight tooth and nail in favour of their members who were guilty of serious neglect in aged care areas.
"You can't dismiss them , must issue a warning ".
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.