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Jamal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Red Rancher Red Rancher wrote:

Not knocking SYT but he was no Winx.


Starspangledbanner was a better horse that SYT


How did you come to that line of thinking? Starspangledbanner is a sprinter who won up to 1600m (Caulfield Guineas). SYT was a middle distance hrse who placed at 3200m. Starspangledbammer did beat SYT in the Caulfield Guineas. Apart from that they are two different style of horses.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:26pm
Stop getting hooked Jamal LOL
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by Red Rancher Red Rancher wrote:

See you had to add in the 1/4 length. You will also notice that Zipping was closing on the line.




As might be expected following the late-ish decision to take SYT to the Cup. Might be my memory inventing stuff but I seem to recall Bart lamenting the fact that he would have won the MC if he'd been allowed to prepare SYT for that race specifically.

All good discussion for another thread.


I think Bart knew that he should of ran SYT in a mile and a half race in prep for the Melbourne Cup.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Rancher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Red Rancher Red Rancher wrote:

SYT beat Zipping by a length in the CP. Can't say that is remotely hot form.

Imagine defining a horses form via a 1/2 length beating of Humidor. LOL 

Umm. Course record. 4 deep entire trip with 3rd horse 5 lenghts back. Not too mention Humidor is a much classier horse than Zipping. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:35pm
I would rather have my life relying on Zipping running to his best than Humidor.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Red Rancher Red Rancher wrote:

SYT beat Zipping by a length in the CP. Can't say that is remotely hot form.

Imagine defining a horses form via a 1/2 length beating of Humidor. LOL 
....Red Excitement a length, in receipt of 2kg, Foxplay  by a half head. Context helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shrunk in the Wash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by Shrunk in the Wash Shrunk in the Wash wrote:

Originally posted by Red Rancher Red Rancher wrote:

Not knocking SYT but he was no Winx.


Starspangledbanner was a better horse that SYT



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Rancher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:46pm
Arent we talking about the CP? If we are talking about context SYT has an easy lead on the fence the trip and just beat Zipping who wouldnt beat Gailo Chop today.

Sorry its simply chalk and cheese in terms of performances. I'm just gobsmacked there are a few on this forum endlessly talking her down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:47pm
WINX 134

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by Red Rancher Red Rancher wrote:

Arent we talking about the CP? If we are talking about context SYT has an easy lead on the fence the trip and just beat Zipping who wouldnt beat Gailo Chop today.

Sorry its simply chalk and cheese in terms of performances. I'm just gobsmacked there are a few on this forum endlessly talking her down.

Talking her down ?

It is simply a debate about her standing in the modern order or more to the point how far in front she might be.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 3:53pm
And by the way NO horses life story should be defined by what they achieved at Moonee Valley.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

WINX 134




So You Think: 134



https://www.racingandsports.com.au/en/english-ire/timeform-rates-so-you-think-134-story-215864
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

And by the way NO horses life story should be defined by what they achieved at Moonee Valley.



You are as usual correct djebel, I have never judged Merryl Streep on what she done in Hollywood as her best work, Out Of Africa was by far her best piece of work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:03pm
Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

WINX 134


With the mare allowance that's 136/7?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Red Rancher Red Rancher wrote:

Arent we talking about the CP? If we are talking about context SYT has an easy lead on the fence the trip and just beat Zipping who wouldnt beat Gailo Chop today.

Sorry its simply chalk and cheese in terms of performances. I'm just gobsmacked there are a few on this forum endlessly talking her down.

Lol RR. Ignoring Bart's prep in that CP would be ignoring context I suspect, as would not mentioning CP1 where SYT smashed Zipping and still handn't turned three. Iirc CP1 gave him a course record or something similar (fastest on new build?). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:21pm
All the good'uns have won at multiple venues in at least two states? CP provides a totally different test where you usually have to get on your bike early and ride hard around the turn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:21pm
The TAB form guide for Winx yesterday finished by saying "Bright Prospects". Well to be fair it was correct I suppose !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHOVHOG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:22pm
I really thought classic uniform would beat her yesterday.
" In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

WINX 134


With the mare allowance that's 136/7?

Pretty sure Timeform already factor in the female allowance.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:24pm
 Better still would have been "chance if held up early", or "expected to run home late".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:24pm
Wasn't sure about that djebel but found this which suggests otherwise

Battash's wins in the King George at Goodwood and the Abbaye at Chantilly on Arc Day were remarkably good, both returning ratings of 136 which puts him a good few lengths ahead of the Lightning. (Before we get emails, Black Caviar would be rated ahead of him once her mares allowance is accounted for. Relax.)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Pretty sure Timeform already factor in the female allowance.



Yes, which makes all the girls even higher rated. Did read something about world best horse recently, Winx, Enable etc, I'll look for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Passing Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:29pm
The following are Timeform's Greatest Racehorses:
  
Highest Timeform Annual Ratings (Flat 3yo+)
147Frankel
145Sea-Bird
144Brigadier Gerard, Tudor Minstrel
142Abernant, Ribot
141Mill Reef
140Dancing Brave, Dubai Millennium, Harbinger, Sea The Stars, Shergar, Vaguely Noble
139Arrogate, Generous, Pappa Fourway, Reference Point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

Wasn't sure about that djebel but found this which suggests otherwise

Battash's wins in the King George at Goodwood and the Abbaye at Chantilly on Arc Day were remarkably good, both returning ratings of 136 which puts him a good few lengths ahead of the Lightning. (Before we get emails, Black Caviar would be rated ahead of him once her mares allowance is accounted for. Relax.)




Black Caviar has 136
Battash has 136

That means in a race with the sex allowance she would/should beat him home.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:33pm
Actually, as I clicked send Embarrassed I was thinking ( yes that hurts ) that that is my understanding.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

WINX 134

I know the purists live this stuff - however a few stick out on that list as being dodgy. Tobin Bronze, American & Sepoy seem too high. Sunline & Makybe Diva too low. How could Sepoy be rated the equal of Sunline ? And inferior to the likes of Weekend Hustler/Hay list ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:44pm
And Saintly is nkt even on the list either, neither is Lets Elope. Both of those horses raced in strog eras.
Australian racing is only good up to 1400m in terms of world standards when it comes to depth/quality in numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 4:53pm
Agreed 11. Far too many anomalies in some of TFs ratings.
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